You lost me at "rust".
Yeah, the fix for rust is cables that don't rust, not trying to be rude but that undermines the whole review a bit to me- just seems like you're failing at cables rather than cables failing you.
But! I like the idea otherwise. Did you get the impression the poor reliability is a standard thing, or just your set? (also, with the front mech you mentioned there's 10 positions- do you preset those, or is it that there's 10 clicks on the lever?)
Did you get the impression the poor reliability is a standard thing, or just your set?
I tried several sets, and despite I had some very good ones, I always find them to lack responsiveness. It is still quick enough to do job very nicely but as I said I really don't like the feel. My main concern being for the front mech that I find often to be poorly efficient. My previous X9 rear mech was just flawless, but again after trying ACROS shifters, I would not come back to cables.
Finally, concerning the rust, I don't necessarily mean the cables but also the housings. When snow or mud get in there I have to remove everything, push the shit out of the housing, grease the cable so that it can again slide in smoothly and finally set up each derailleur, which is a pain. Maybe it is just me having shitty cable housing but that just adds to to the rest.
Regarding your second question Northwind, you cannot preset the positions. However, after a couple of rides you know how much you have to push the lever without even thinking about it and as I said you can get + or - one position when the chain rattles whithout changing the gears.
Cool, ta- quite like that idea, I learned to ride with frictionshift thumbies 😉
I've loved the idea of this system the first time I heard of the idea - which was about 1993 - IIRC 😉
Still don't like the cost of it (yet) though... (hint: c'mon Shimano!)
Presumably you run cable disc brakes, Northwind?
Sounds great excepting the niggles with air getting in. Always good to have another competitor to SRAM & Shim.
I personally think electric shifting will prove more popular though.
retro83 - MemberI personally think electric shifting will prove more popular though.
Yep. Proper wireless electronic shifting. Hydrailic had a shot ten years ago, not now.
Yep. Proper wireless electronic shifting. Hydrailic had a shot ten years ago, not now.
first Mavic Zap and Mechtronic, have a read about them.
Second, Sram are playing catch up to Shimano and Campagnolo, Electronic takes ALOT of time and money to get right, Sram bought Sachs to get where they are....
aracer - MemberPresumably you run cable disc brakes, Northwind?
Er, no, I just understand that gears and brakes work very differently so what works for one isn't necessarily a good idea for another.
Yep. Proper wireless electronic shifting. Hydrailic had a shot ten years ago, not now.
I have to disagree on that one. I personally think electronic is a bad thing on mountain bikes. To me, bike is all about reliable, easy to fix, long lasting components.
When I see how cars got crap since there is more and more electronic in them plus you cannot fix stuff the DIY way anymore.
I mean that is cool to see such things for competition but I would never put any electronic component on my bike (apart from the computer). IMO cables and hydraulic perform a thousand times better on the long term because of these reasons.
hydraulic shifting, but no dropper (and in fact, a silver coloured) post?
get with it man!
Not sure why you would want wireless electronic. Why have a battery in each shifter and each derailleur that needs to be charged?
All good until you rip off the rear mech on a rock.
Not sure why you would want wireless electronic. Why have a battery in each shifter and each derailleur that needs to be charged?
but you could share the same ba..... oh no hang on
Electronic shifting has the advantage that you can do clever things with automatic shifting and the like. Hydraulics are great for when you need to transmit a lot of force (like brakes), I don't see the point for gear cables.
Why have a battery in each shifter and each derailleur that needs to be charged?
+1
Imagine getting stuck because of a "low battery" alert 🙁
@ ir_bandito : I'm not such a fan of dropper posts. Well I still think silver matches pretty well with the other components but you are right maybe I should have taken an anodized purple one 😉 .
You shouldn't need a battery in the shifters. You could use similar tech to these: http://www.adhocelectronics.com/Products/Wireless-Lighting-Control
I'm not such a fan of dropper posts
but you can get a hydraulic one to match the rest of the bike!
Imagine getting stuck because of a "low battery" alert
I've not used the system myself, but i understand that this was a criticism of the Di2 system. It seems that the when the low battery level comes , you've still got a fair few days shifting left. I can only see that being a problem if you continue to ignore the low battery warning.
Nice idea.
I can't help feeling that full length outer is a much cheaper solution though!
Shred - Member
Not sure why you would want wireless electronic. Why have a battery in each shifter and each derailleur that needs to be charged?
So that you don't need wires? Shifter would need little, or possible no battery.
but you can get a hydraulic one to match the rest of the bike!
Ha nice one!
I start to believe that there might be a brand of dropper posts called "ir bandito" out there 😆 .
Hydraulic shifting has already been obsoleted by electronic shifting offering self trimming mechs, shifters wherever you want to put them and yes its reliable in mud and the batteries last for ages on one charge [url= http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70101 ]Have a look at this[/url]
When I see how cars got crap since there is more and more electronic in them plus you cannot fix stuff the DIY way anymore
Cars have never been more reliable and as fast and economical as they are now.
Cars have never been more reliable and as fast and economical as they are now.
Yes but on the long term I'm not quite sure, I'm far from being a car mechanic or whatsoever but usually the first thing that fails is electronic especially when exposed to low temperatures...But I might be wrong.
I also really don't like the idea to be unable to fix the thing myself.
Personally, I would never use that on a bike. Now I fully understand that I may be very nice for pro riders looking after every bit of performance.
Anyone know what bars those are?
Anyone know what bars those are?
Are you referring to the handlebar???
Personally, I would never use that on a bike. Now I fully understand that I may be very nice for pro riders looking after every bit of performance.
Roughly a third of my maintenance time is spent keeping gears in adjustment. Electronic shifting adjusts itself. My next (road bike) is definitely going to have Ui2
As for low temperatures. If Di2 can survive this years Milan San Remo or Giro then that's good enough for me.
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barkit - MemberYes but on the long term I'm not quite sure, I'm far from being a car mechanic or whatsoever but usually the first thing that fails is electronic especially when exposed to low temperatures...But I might be wrong.
You're wrong. And temperature has little or no effect on electronics.
To be fair it will affect the battery but unless you intend going out in seriously polar conditions its not an issue
electronics often perform better in sub zero temperatures, any PC overclocking nerd will tell you that.
All right maybe I'm wrong, but it's not for me, if the circuit fails, you have to replace it you cannot fix it.
I fail to be able to trust these kind of things...especially because I like to keep the thing simple and at least in my mind electronic devices do not respond to this criterium...
I wouldn't be using electronic shifting any time soon due to bike radars review of campags elec shifting and how the connections kept shorting in wet conditions, would not work well on a MTB. Then again when have Italians been good at electrics?
Shimano would be better I imagine.
I would love hydraulic shifting just for the unique factor, same reason I really want a 36er, just for the lulz. It seems a fantastic idea to me, shame about the price or I would be tempted to pay a reasonable price for a rear mech and shifter combo.
Also it seems that things from cars trickle into the bike industry, I am unaware (being an automotive engineering student) of any hydraulic gear selection being used, electronic yes, mechanical yes but not hydraulic, seems like a stretch for it to ever come down in price really.
Do they not teach you to use google as part of automotive engineering courses?
Where does this fit inbetween my 32t chainring and my 16t cog?
I've got one of them in my derailleur museum 😉
[url= http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2119/2038980300_dc4abefec5_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleologist/2038980300/ ]Shimano Airlines[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cycleologist/ ]Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr
Inventors: don't waste time designing ever-complicated ways to shift derailleurs. Design something that doesn't need derailleurs at all! Get on with gearbox/internal type systems and make them light, weatherproof and reliable.
Get on with it!
Another gem from the Pinkbike article, referring to the chainring:
Not exactly oval. The shape of it has been drawn to compensate the decrease in power when approaching the dead spot.
This has nothing to do with shimano biopace or rotor Q-ring even though it starts from the same idea : trying to erase the dead spot.
Barkit, I think the word you are looking for is 'yes'.
Is it April 1st?
Get on with gearbox/internal type systems and make them light, weatherproof and reliable.
Out of curiosity I started going through the design process once for a simple two speed hub. Once you start looking at things like the tooth forces involved you soon realise light and reliable is never going to be an option.
Bastardising Winston Churchill -
"It has been said that deraileurs is the worst form of gear shifting, except for all the others that have been tried"
Get on with gearbox/internal type systems and make them light, weatherproof and reliable.
You can have two out of three of those - and a Rohloff or Pinion isn't all that heavy.