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If you're really serious about disaster proofing then what about drum brakes? They put most others to shame in terms of being neglect tolerant.
Go with sturmey and you can have anything from SS to 8 internal Gears and a dynamo if you really want... Now that's a setup!
Have a look on SJS...
If you’re just going on a three week holiday than most well maintained bikes with hydro brakes and gears will be fine. Take a view on what’s currently at the end of it’s useful life, (if anything is at all) and replace well before you leave to give it time to bed in. All this talk of front and back same spaced hubs and single speed is completely OTT.
I don't disagree but I went on a 3 week holiday where there's no way I was risking what I was there for over a pulled hose or worn kit where I would have to go and figure out how to get a replacement. In some cases kit that's been designed primarily for performance isn't worth as much as something simpler, more tolerant or more easily replaced. Sometimes it's just about peace of mind if that's how you find it, it's not all rational.
it’s not all rational.
Oh sure, I get that absolutely, what you think's going to go wrong is 1. somewhat clouded by one's experience, (I've never had any issues with Hydro brakes and derailleurs so I rarely think they'll go wrong) and 2. Sod's law say the thing you least expect to break is the thing that will break!
OP is overthinking the need for super simple to be survivable. Strong and actually useable would be way better imo.
Look at Alee Denham - probably the best travelled rider to out of the way places I know and what he rides .... https://www.cyclingabout.com/new-bike-day-2020-koga-worldtraveller-touring-bike/
TLDR? Basically the result is a 90s rigid MTB
Ooh, interesting... Want to buy a lovely 1996 GT Bravado, OP? 😉
If you are already riding SS then fixed and then brakeless fixed is not really much of a leap – especially if you want a bike where very little can go wrong.
The only thing that can go wrong with brakes is they stop working - so why go brakeless to avoid the fear of your brakes creasing to work and leaving you brakeless?
By the same measure any 3x / 2x / 1x gear system can only really fail to being a single speed. If you're someone who uses gears what's the point of denying them to yourself?
Yeah, it's mainly a piece of mind thing, I've had minimal kit trouble over the years but I have had the odd ride ending one (hydro hose that pulled out in one instance, pedal that came apart in another) and I've seen enough freehubs blow in my time to be wary, (that said none of mine touch wood though I've replaced a pawl spring in a tent in the pitch dark, freezing cold and pissing rain before which is not an experience I wish to repeat!)
As I mentioned above though what concerns me most is the baggage handling to get there, that's really the point of greatest risk kit wise.
Chances of it going wrong are slim but some are easy to significantly mitigate like cable rather than hydro brakes, some less so, I'm not going to carry a spare frame for instance.
And that's really what I'm trying to get my head around, what's a reasonable mitigation what's not, what's not really possible to address and am I happy with the resulting risk.
Perfect example is gearing
Electric shifting would be a very high risk (no charging facilities, no ready replacement of batteries etc), I'd simply not go if it was ASX or nothing.
Derailleur gears in general , High risk, there will be lots of high grass, (often hiding ruts, rocks, sticky outy roots etc) busting a mech is simply too much of a chance. In doing so there's every chance of also knackering a wheel and, whilst I can build new or fix it's time I'd rather not spend and I won't be carrying a rim with me. It's a no to dangly bits or don't go. (edit, or rather, go organised and supported etc)
Rolhoff/nexus low risk, chance of failure small so spares etc not really a worry, only real downside is I don't have one which means finding and building one up in the next 12 months or so ready to run in before next winter dry season. But it's probably the most sensible option.
Single speed I do have, risk is broadly zero, spares even then are small and easy to use. Distance will be low daily or longer highway days, easy enough to carry stuff to swap gearing for those. It's less sensible than hub gearing but it's also a very easy (and low cost) solution. The only real question was if a freewheel is worth it over a freehub in terms of reliability - though the suggestion of dingle speed got me thinking I could likely get a triple up front and three sprockets on a normal freehub for an actual range of gears.
Fixed gear, failure risk is zero but not a chance I want to ride off road on one simply because I can't be trusted not to injure myself. If it was the only option it would be a no because the result of any real injury is likely to be very bad to the tune of days before medical attention.
Chances of it going wrong are slim but some are easy to significantly mitigate like cable rather than hydro brakes, some less so, I’m not going to carry a spare frame for instance.
I realise this is a case study of 1 but a friend on TransCon went with cable discs in spite of my recommendation to go full hydro. Same concerns about "what if it goes wrong?" / ease of fixing.
Problem was that she had endless trouble with the cable brakes culminating in being stranded on a wet cold mountain pass because the brakes had simply stopped functioning and it was so cold that she couldn't adjust anything with frozen hands. Hydro would just have worked (other than pulling a hose out).
By the time she'd gone on to Silk Road, she'd gone full hydro. 🙂
And that's a vastly more remote place than middle of Europe.
it was so cold that she couldn’t adjust anything with frozen hands
That's one problem I'm absolutely comfortable I shan't have 🙂
I have just ordered mine. Steel frame ( so can be welded if breaks) coil forks ( so if a seal pops you have something left Hope brakes ( so I can carry a seal kit) rohloff ( unbreakable and if you do manage it they send you a new one!) 26 inch rims - easiest size to get.
I’ve never had any issues with Hydro brakes
I've got a set of M750 XT servowaves on a bike that gets used 2x a week and has done for about 10 years but I use cable brakes on my bike that goes in boxes on planes or on trips in general. I don't know if it's rational or not but it's certainly not based on my experience with hydros. Sods law says I'll fray a brake cable on my next trip.
Problem was that she had endless trouble with the cable brakes culminating in being stranded on a wet cold mountain pass because the brakes had simply stopped functioning and it was so cold that she couldn’t adjust anything with frozen hands. Hydro would just have worked (other than pulling a hose out).
Do they really just stop working though? Sounds like the cables needing adjusting for wear and hadn't been until it was a bit late? You're right that hydros just keep working and need little attention at all, as long as they're not damaged the good ones are about as reliable as bike kit gets.
Going back to the idea of a fixed gear for a moment.
A decent (Halo Clickster as a sensible middle ground) freewheel will last 3 weeks, I'd not even question that TBH. But fixed isn't that difficult on a gravel type bike. And the spare sprocket and lockring weight really is negligible. And kinda doubles as a back brake meaning you only need that as a spare, not a spare freewheel and brake.
If you can find a 135mm double fixed or fixed/free (old DMR and ON One hubs are cheap examples but often 36h). Then you can run a tandem brake addapter on the opposite thread with a disk. Again allowing you to build universal front/rear wheels if you get a 135mm symmetrical fat fork with rear disk mount sizing.
My gut feeling would be to go with hydro brakes and singlespeed with a fixed backup. If you run the front hose through a BMX hollow headset bolt then there's almost zero chance of it being ripped out. So you've always got one brake, plus a fixed option as a spare.
IMO reliability means things that will get you home. If the rear brake fails you'll still get to the end of the ride, just a bit more cautiously.
Derailleur gears in general , High risk, Rolhoff/nexus low risk.
See here I think your thinking is wrong. Derailleurs may be exposed to risk, but they can be fixed nearly everywhere, they're cheap, and replaceable (Hell, light enough to carry a spare) whereas while Rolhoff is low risk of failure admittedly, but they don't respond well to repeated full immersion, and Nexus isn't intended for off-road at all. And if it goes tits up, no-one will be able to fix it, and you won't be able to adapt your rear wheel to anything else. (because that's not standard either)
Propritery = bad, global standard = good (and in this case, that's derailleurs)
hydro hose that pulled out in one instance
I have too, crashed bars spin around, hose came out....I still don't think because of that one incident it would put me off using them.
And if it goes tits up, no-one will be able to fix it, and you won’t be able to adapt your rear wheel to anything else. (because that’s not standard either)
Not quite so - the rohloff can go in a standard 135 dropout so any derailleur wheel will fit ( this is how mine will be set up), rohloff will courier the hub for repair from anywhere and as a last resort the disc spacing is the same as a granny ring so you can flip the hub and single speed it
Derailiers are not a global standard. too many different speeds different cable pulls and even mountings
rohloff will courier the hub for repair from anywhere
Oh sure, and that's a really cool service, but while that's happening, you're drumming you're fingers waiting for it to go and come back. Even if the pull is wrong on the cable you can bodge it to get going again, or straighten the hanger, or even have a go at fixing it yourself. and like I said, if it bothers you that much, take a spare, good luck carrying a spare rohloff 🙂
Derailiers are not a global standard
Sure they are, every bike shop in the world from Durham to Dar Es Salaam has seen a derailleur, I'll bet they haven't seen a rohloff.
What standard are derailiers> 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 /11/ 12 spd? long or short cage? sram or shimano cable pull? What type of top mpounting?
sure if yo have a basic 9 spd mtb mech you can probably get a replacement in most large towns in eurrope. Beyond that?
there is a reason why so many long distance cyclists use rohloffs
sure if yo have a basic 9 spd mtb mech you can probably get a replacement in most large towns in eurrope. Beyond that?
Even in wierd COVID shortage times I'd put money on any bike shop being able to find a standard 7 speed Shimano mech (you know those cheap ones that come on BSO'S).
And no one's mentioned friction shifting yet have they? Or at least "downtube" shifters with a get you home friction mode which still works even if the mech/hanger is bent.
able to find a standard 7 speed Shimano mech
Ah - is that the "global standard mech? so set off with 9spd and have to convert to 7 - with a new wheel cassettte and shifters needed?
! have actually put my money where my mouth is - my " gentleman's long distance adventure bike" will have a rohloff - but in 135 spacing and with a mech hanger just in case
rohloff will courier the hub for repair from anywhere
The OP is going for a holiday for a few weeks, not a round the world adventure.
What standard are derailiers> 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 /11/ 12 spd?
Friction shifters overcome all that, the mount points are all the same and if you fit 9s to start with you'll be able to use a 10-12s mech on the same chain etc. I think a thumbie or bar-end shifter w/ friction option is a good thing on a derailleur bike that goes overseas for those big rides you don't want mechanicals getting in the way of.
a rohloff – but in 135 spacing and with a mech hanger just in case
A good choice I reckon.
and with a mech hanger just in case.
You kinda make my point for me...when it goes completely tits-up, fit a derailleur
Ah – is that the “global standard mech?
You misunderstand, derailleurs are are global, every bike shop has seen one, and knows what they are. Was the point, not what particular mech it is.
Ah – is that the “global standard mech? so set off with 9spd and have to convert to 7 – with a new wheel cassettte and shifters needed?
Yep, exactly that. Appart from the last bit. You'll still have 9 speeds (or at leas you'll have most of the cassette if it doesn't reach).
Those cheap and nasty, but completely ubiquitous <9s rear mechs are all the same pull ratio. Any bike shop in the world will have one of those, even if it's attached to a pile of scrap bikes out the back. Running out of mechs isn't going to be an issue.
But singlespeeds solve both issues anyway.
No what you miss nick is that with such a huge range of mechs its unlikely that you will get your particular fitment off the shelf outside of large stores - and they break fail and wear unlike rohloffs
Reads thread.
Thinks about all the times my Rohloff has let me down in thousands of miles....zero.
Looks at all the other kit in my bag of travelling kit that I might not be able to replace at a moments notice when away and how many night sleep I've lost worrying about it.....zero.
Shakes heads and wanders away wondering how some of you leave the house in the morning without a nervous breakdown.
And no one’s mentioned friction shifting yet have they?
Oh they have 😉 so far as a mech goes I think they're far and away the sensible option but, and it's a big but, the places where anything will be an issue here, a mech is a genuine risk.
I wouldn't spend my days in the UK cycling through knee high and up grass on a track barely 6 inch wide without thinking I'm possibly going to shag my mech so I'm not about to do it elsewhere either.
You misunderstand, derailleurs are are global, every bike shop has seen one, and knows what they are. Was the point, not what particular mech it is.
You misunderstand, bike shops aren't global. Hell food shops aren't global, running water isn't global. It's not about what the lbs can fix it's about not having to find one in parts of the world where a school or a doctor are 7 hours walk away.
Thinks about all the times my Rohloff has let me down in thousands of miles….zero.
Likewise, if I think of the amount of times my derailleur has ever broken - zero...see my post earlier. Everyone is biased towards the system the have the most success with.
Friction shifters overcome all that, the mount points are all the same and if you fit 9s to start with you’ll be able to use a 10-12s mech on the same chain etc.
Nope - 3 different sorts of mountings for derailliers You cannot use a 12 spd mech with a 9 spd rest of setup as the jockey wheels / cassettee will be for different chain widths
Likewise, if I think of the amount of times my derailleur has ever broken – zero…see my post earlier. Everyone is biased towards the system the have the most success with
You completely missed my point. What I'm saying is there is way too much angst and hand ringing about stuff breaking. Stuff does sometimes break but mostly it doesn't. Some are advocating a brakeless, gearless setup in case what you take breaks. To me - baffling levels of concern.
aye, probably right
Nope – 3 different sorts of mountings for derailliers You cannot use a 12 spd mech with a 9 spd rest of setup as the jockey wheels / cassettee will be for different chain widths
Well, yeah if you're just going to look for opportunities for inconvenience. But a friction shifter (or indexed with a friction mode) and a 7/8/9 speed setup is the next best thing after SS for near universal serviceability. Who fits Eagle for global trekking?
Dynamo hub?
I'd go with:
Steel frame and fork
Hydro brakes but v brake bosses as an option.
Square taper
135mm wheels, Alfine (or Rohloff) and one of those disc mount cogs in your luggage so you can flip the wheel to overcome any freewheel/gear issues. This would also give you another way to stop if a brake has been damaged, you can move the rear brake to the front and go fixed.
Slidy dropouts or similar to tension the chain.
You can't cover everything though, a pringled front wheel and cracked rim from a crash would be tough to sort. (Thinking about it, are certain rims more ductile and easy to straighten? A lot of alloy rims seem ready to crack at the first hint of a rock strike
Nope – 3 different sorts of mountings for derailliers You cannot use a 12 spd mech with a 9 spd rest of setup as the jockey wheels / cassettee will be for different chain widths
OK, one mount for mechs for most - direct mount is still fairly rare.
In terms of mech x-compatibility a 12s mech can take a wider 9s chain as the jockey wheels of 11 or 12s are thinner. You have 1.25 - 1.5mm chain width difference between 9 and 12s and more cage clearance than that as far as I can see. It'd shift.
In reality it's more likely you'd find an 8 or 10s mech which'd work fine, it's the index shifters that limit compatibility.
Stuff does sometimes break but mostly it doesn’t.
I can think of quite a few who've had long-distance races interrupted by failed mechs and freehubs though. Concern goes with importance of the ride, how much you have invested in it etc, so it's a balance. Some will be hopeful all's ok and others will want to eliminate as much risk as possible - without going brakeless fixed, who'd want to ride that? 😉
I used to worry about stuff like this when doing long overseas bike trips, and the legacy bike I'm riding out the door tomorrow on a vaguely open ended trip kind of reflects that.
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Bar end shifter could be set to friction only if everything gets knocked out of whack (but it never happened). Sliding dropouts would make a ss conversion straightforward (it's never been necessary). The frame, a steel Lava Dome bought off here for £60, is 26" but is currently happily taking 27.5" cup'n'cone wheels (also bought for £60 off here); so I know I can crowbar in various wheel and tyre sizes (never needed to do that). The forks have canti studs (and the front rim I used to use, Rhyno Lite, had a braking rim) so I could've substituted Vs/cantis in the event of total failure of front and rear disks (guess what? Never happened).
These days I'm less comfortable with burning through a load of carbon traveling to a poor country to use it as a backdrop for my ego, but if I was I'd take a decent tyre boot, gaffer tape, a couple of hose clips and some commonly sized bolts. That's all I needed to sort the problems I did have: sheared rack mounts, broken saddle clamp bolts, etc. Pack the bike well for travel on the way out, that's where it's most likely to suffer trip ending damage on a three week holiday.