Is it me or does the UK domestic/amateur road race calender seem to have shrunk?
The sport seems pretty popular at the moment - well certainly when it comes to pros, so how come there aren't so many races these days. Sportives on the other hand are popping up daily.
Are we in danger of cutting off the supply of riders if we throw everything at the current crop of successful riders, and pour our remaining resources into holding lucrative sportives.
Because of what I alluded to on the other thread - lots of people don't like the clubs on offer so they never join and just ride/do sportives rather than race.
I find it funny over on veloriders and other roadie forums when they all complain about the lack of races and then snobbily slag off newbies/triatletes for the horrible kit mistakes they make, poor riding, etc and can't see the connection
In fact, put it another way. Why WOULD people join a club? You can get a bike, ride with your mates and do any number of sportives which don't require you to be near the front end to feel that you've achieved something without any need to be in a club.
Its shrunk big time in our area thanks mainly to a league being set up which was actually meant to increase races, its a long and complicated story about how this actually came about happening.
I was an average 2nd Cat and I gave up racing in the end, finding yourself lining up on a sunday morning against malcolm Elliot, Rob Hayles etc. was not worth the £12 entry and petrol to get there and back.
I know what you mean, a club I was with wouldn't let me race for them in the first year.
But strangely I think the nature of road racing itself almost demands that regimented approach.
As above, why would I join a cycling club and pay money to do so when I could just turn up to Swinley and talk to people for free, yes you have to pay to use Swinely, but the roads are free so I'm not paying an arbitrary club so that I can ride on them as well!
The problem in the ERRL is getting a race entry - too many 3rd/4th cats for the number of places available.
Also, I get the impression organising races is a ballache that fewer and fewer people are willing to do, and approvals to run events on open road course are getting harder to get.
That's all very well thisisnotaspoon, but if you want to race road you will need a body to organise it i.e a club.
I was getting all cocky with a mate from the Peak about the ammount of road races I have on my doorstep, but when I checked, 2010 was dead. The only thing going strong is circuit racing and that's a million miles from road racing.
Well again, why road race? why not do sportives instead? I know that the road racers like to be snobby about them but clearly they have a big draw that road racing just doesn't at the moment at least...
The racers just aren't doing much about promoting road racing to new people beyond their own insular group of people who already race in general other than sneering at the sportives, triatletes and pro-kit wearing riders (who don't know better 😉 ) though I'll grant you that the hurdles put in the way of organising racing (eg police notification, etc) aren't helping.
The combination of the Surrey League and SERRL in the south east provides loads of road races for all cats. The big problem now for organisers is police permission and health and fricken safety. The aforementioned leagues have built up good relationships with the necessary bodies and work tirelessly to keep events year on year, however there are always requests for marshalls and it is always the same few ensuring racing happens for the many.
I have absolutely no interest in racing anyone. However, I don't mind paying a tenner or so to do a decent, supported ride somewhere different and can see the value in someone else finding all the good roads and marking them out for me.
Whether it's true or not, the cycling clubs all seem to be either for the hardcore roadies (early morning training rides, racing on weekends) or the CTC-type ones for pootling about. There's a lot of people in between that have a road bike and want to do something between the two - a few hours (or more) over decent roads at whatever pace you like. Thus no wonder sportives have got a hell of a lot more popular.
Well again, why road race? why not do sportives instead?
Because a (UK) sportive is nothing like a proper road race where everyone starts together with lead and following cars and motorcycle outriders. Also sportives are about times and RRs position so the tactics in a RR are much more complex and interesting.
Analagous to XC vs marathon / enduro / 24hr in mtb...
lb - can I just state that I've done and love road racing - I'm just making the case as to why it's not very popular ATM despite increasing numbers of people on bikes.
I think that there's several reasons:
1. As a conversation I had last night with someone who's really keen on racing. She's thinking very seriously of giving up because whatever races she enters she's up against semi pro and 1/2 Cat racers. There's absolutely no point in her even turning up to these, and she resents the attitude of those E/1/2 riders to people like her.
2. Why would any organiser put on a race when you end up with so much ball acheing and abuse from riders. I used to promote a London League/ Central League Cyclocross race but have stopped because I got sick of people moaning constantly and getting dozens of emails complaining about the course, the results, the organisation and the weather, why it isn't in Kent etc. So I stopped.
3. I used to be invoved with the organisation of a UCI cat race in the south east - it has now become very difficult to put on a large scale race with the conflicting requirements of the local Police and the increasing congestion that such a race causes.
I still marshall at races but am not prepared to put myself through the mill for the minority who've put me off organising.
I know that from stalking you clubber 😉
and I understand your points from a newcomer's point of view. There's a similar situation at Herne Hill velodrome; hundreds of people go to the training sessions, but maybe 50-60 actually enter the race meetings.
Road racing is also flippin tough, you can't just turn up if you're not super fit as you'll get dropped straight away. Much more competitive than the NPS XC - I never got anywhere in the ERRL whereas could podium in NPS (Sport).
Cool - I've not had a stalker before 😉
The thing with sportives is it's like a stage of the TdF (with some imagination) and that massively appeals (ask most first time sportive riders about it they'll explain that it's like a stage of the TdF to people who don't know). A road race for a newbie is like turning up in a 2CV for an F1 race.
If I couldn't race and the only other option was sportives then I'd hang up my road bike.
Don't forget a sportive is totally non competative so it's no substitute for racing. And it certainly won't breed future champions, interest yes.
It's that kind of absolute and completely negative view of sportives though that paints a pretty negative view of many roadies though...
I reckon that if clubs encouraged new riders in with a view to making them ride sportives better then a reasonable proportion would get interested in 'proper' road racing and give it a go... Newbies clearly find sportives appealing. Putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring that doesn't help anyone.
If I couldn't race and the only other option was sportives then I'd hang up my road bike
I'm with you there fella. I'm taking a 'racing break' whilst our little'un is small, and in the meantime I've had a crack at a few sportives and don't get what I 'need' from them/just don't get them - if I want to go for a ride, I'll do it and not pay anyone for it thanks.
It's a really difficult balancing act.
[i]1. As a conversation I had last night with someone who's really keen on racing. She's thinking very seriously of giving up because whatever races she enters she's up against semi pro and 1/2 Cat racers. There's absolutely no point in her even turning up to these, and she resents the attitude of those E/1/2 riders to people like her.[/i]
Agreed but at the same time I know organisers have tried to hold 4th Cat only womens races and they rarely work - not enough numbers - so the only option to ensure break-even is to hold it as an all-cats which leads to the situation above. the E/1/2's mop up all the prizes, the 3/4's are out the back by lap one, get dispirited and never come back. 🙁
Endless amounts of hassle with the police. Some forces are very helpful and will supply police outriders etc to the bigger events. Some forces are actively hostile to the idea of a road race or they'll agree to it but then ask for £10000 in costs to police it.
Some people get put off by the perceived bureaucracy of road racing (it's not bad but to an outsider it can appear to be impenetrable), the fact that road racing is almost entirely club based and to those outside a club they have no idea where to find out about it.
Let's turn it round - there are quite a few keen roadies on here so what would make you go and try a race?
aP you never said, why wasn't it in Kent?
Incidentally, the whole growth of sportives and the racers' views of them reminds me of where we were 5 tto 10 years ago with BC's decision to push track racing as development towards getting a British Pro Team at the TdF and winning it. Almost all roadies sneered and said it'd never work because it wasn't proper racing, etc...
I think oldgit and bristolbiker aren't coming from the same place as clubber's newbies though. Once you've done proper road races, a sportive will never fill the gap. However, if you haven't, then they could be a good stepping stone.
Exactement - all sports need new blood coming into them. Sportives would be a great way for clubs to get new members but most seem to prefer to just ignore them and stick to 'proper' racing...
Right, so I'm theoretically good enough for a mid table finish in Master at a Gorrick, with an emphasis on power for flatter riding. Could I enter a road race and not be made a fool of?
Sportive organisers have the freedom from tradition and/or rules and regs to be a bit more creative, making it fun for people. For example, we have a 'race the train' Sportive. Everyone races the Worth Valley Steam train from one end of the line to the other, it's great fun.
Hard to say for sure molgrips but you'd probably find the changes in pace hard to deal with for the first few goes so may find you do less well than you expect for your relative level of fitness.
Could I enter a road race and not be made a fool of?
Proabaly, but it's not an even effort - took me a few goes to cope with positioning and the constant changes of pace.
If you can hold a wheel and know how the pack gets spread out in corners ie ready to sprint out of them etc, then you should be able to hang on to the bunch.
molgrips, you'd probably be fine in a 4th cat race or 3/4 first time out, but real difference is the sprint at the end which 90% of these lower cat races finish as.
Very unfair clubber, see you have to understand that if you take away the racing then it's just a ride.
I'm only negative about sportives from my personl view. I realise that sportives have a huge positive on the sport. But to me they will always be a glorified Sunday ride and not a million miles away from RTs that have been running for years.
I can look at a map any Saturday night and pick out new roads and pen them onto a 'fag packet' and head off for hours the next day. That's why I feel the way I do about them, they're like the bottled water of cycling.
Road racing is about so much more than fitness - tactics, experience and teamwork play a huge role in it which is why most people are lucky to even finish their first race in the bunch, never mind start contesting the sprint.
Once you get into it though it's great fun. Generally pretty cheap to enter, a great way of improving fitness and bike handling. The hurdle (IMHO) is getting people a) to want to do it and b) to keep coming back for the few weeks it takes to be able to finish in the bunch rather than getting put off by getting a kicking!
I wasn't having a go oldgit - it's a perfectly reasonable view for you to hold. It's that for a newbie who likes the idea of a sportive, goes for a ride with a club and is told that sportives are crap, just an expensive ride that should be free, doing, would be better to quit than do and so on, it's not a very good impression to make and may well completely put them off the club and in turn road racing...
And I know this happens as I've seen it happen several times, not to mention having heard it from plenty of people I know who I've got into road riding.
If you can hold a wheel and know how the pack gets spread out in corners ie ready to sprint out of them etc, then you should be able to hang on to the bunch.
Not got a lot of experience riding in a bunch... crash-tastic 🙂
Need to get in touch with my local clubs.
That isn't good, and I'm suprised. I rode past a sportive last weekend and was suprised to see a fair few local clubs in numbers.
I am guilty of actually telling a young rider that the reliability trial we were about to do would have a better class of rider than the sportive we did before, so that in a way though probably true was a bit negative.
But strangely the cameraderie within a race is great, if you've ever been off the back and you've hooked up with fellow riders to get back into contention you'll know what I mean.
On the other hand why do a sportive and waste 40quid when you can do a long ride for afew quid? Or do an audax for under a tenner.I do see the point about inexperienced riders racing at speed in a bunch swerving and braking at the wrong moments is dangerous and bunch riding at speed takes time to get used to
molgrips that's were this dicipline in clubs comes in, it is harsh and can be a bit stuffy, but the club route delivers you ready to race.
Typically you join up ride with a group, train with them over winter, ride some RTs to get used to larger bunches and suss out the other clubs then fine tune it with the faster riders before the season kicks off.
A lot of non competative cyclists mistake this focus for rudeness.
Sportives are supported and allow people to imagine that they're doing something similar to what the TdF riders do (irrespective of how far from the truth that actually is...). A ride on your own doesn't do that.
Audaxes ditto and are poorly perceived unfortunately as being for old bimblers with mudguards - one of the reasons that my team put one on and made a real effort to advertise it as being fun/enjoyable. And having lots of cake 🙂
A lot of non competative cyclists mistake this focus for rudeness.
very true. There are some very rude clubs/members but on the other hand, the extra friendly clubs round my way have an earned reputation for providing ready to crash racers....
I think the current BC thinking of only allowing 4ths on closed circuits is a good way of trying to keep (bad) crashes down a bit.
Just thinking sportives as an alternative would cost me a fortune as I try to race every week during the season.
Sportives are supported and allow people to imagine that they're doing something similar to what the TdF riders do
And that's fine as far as it goes.... but if they finish, say, 25% behind the 'winner' and think 'that was alright, I'll have a go at the local evening circuit race', they're still likely to turn up and get a kicking.
Absolutely. Which comes back to my point about trying to welcome those riders into clubs rather than immediately telling them they're wasting their time with sportives.
Let them do the training rides with the club for sportives and some will undoubtedly want to try 'proper' racing. Do the more usual 'scared of change/the unknown/anything different' roadie thing and slag everything else off and no one gains.
A bit of advice for newcomers to road clubs is to get fit beforehand unless the club has a proper newcomers organised ride group.
If you just rock up to a club and join a group of racers with an agenda you're going to have youre nose knocked out of joint.
