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I can work out what type of CF it is for you and you can tell me when it will break yes?
I enjoy this "make it first then worry about if it might work" approach 🙂
greeble - Member
I hand it to you for try but you're a **** idiot
Hahahaha
Please, please, please video this!
I could do with a laugh.
Meanwhile in Edinburgh a middle aged tandemer is foaming at the mouth, turning purple and screaming as he takes a hammer to his computer.
Come on al this isn't real your just trying to smoke him out and make him reveal his new identity
7 layers eh? what made you think of 7?
What was that about composites having to have a balanced and symmetrical layup?
Anyway, It looks woven, are all the layers woven? are all of the layers in the same orientation? Any idea what the weight of the reinforcement is ? g/m2 ?
Just out of interest you don't work for Boeing do you?
7 layers was 3 width-long strips of the roll of CF I have. Yes it's all woven, all wrapped in the same way. I can't find the weight though.
Slogo - what if it works?
Al, for your test ride, if you can, mount a GoPro on the other fork leg pointing across at the caliper!
How long has it been curing for and whats the weather like where you are? (trying to work out when you might venture out)
A few hours on top of the radiator. I could prob tape a cam to the fork, good idea. It will be a still though, of course.
Been wet today but looking good for tomorrow. I want to finish it cosmetically before fitting it up though, and I may decide my ensuite bathroom install needs my time tomorrow.
I hope it does work. BUT if it doesn't, at least YBF will give you £250 towards fixing your face!
Why "far better"?
Because it's a lot easier to get the required strength. There's a good reason why disc mounts are normally in the place they are.
Because it's a lot easier to get the required strength. There's a good reason why disc mounts are normally in the place they are.
1. They should be on the same side front and rear. Can't go on the drive side on the rear so must go on the non-drive side.
2. Now they are on the non-drive side they can go on the front or the back of the fork. If they go on the front they are exposed to getting knocks and rain etc etc. Also the manufacturers would have to make a different caliper with the hose outlet on the other end as the caliper would need to be fitted upside down.
I know there are reasons in a properly manufactured part that is properly designed to put a brake caliper where it is BUT engineering decisions do sometimes get based on seemingly trivial things that are not-engineering based.
(just saying, not arguing)
They should be on the same side front and rear.
qqqque?
This very Blue Peter. I hope it works well enough and for long enough for you to avoid a trip to A&E.
SJS cycles are selling carbon disc forks for road bikes at the moment for not alot. These are not cross forks either. Any failures you get will not be due to galvanic corrosion.
It could work though. I suppose you are going to find out! That win.
@toys: reciprocity of course. Helps with things like centre lock brake discs etc. If you don't make something reciprocal when you had the chance you will normally regret it some time later. (quite impressed with my actually finding the right word considering I am a bit drunk)
Did he survive the test drive?
Been doing other things today. May do it tomorrow.
Video now please. I ordered a Saturday delivery 🙂
Edit: beaten to it by the Al
Can someone explain reciprocity in simple terms and why it dictates discs on same side?
I reckon there's a market for someone to run an 'engineering for frame designers' course.
Or 'Engineering for carbon cutlery fetishists' 🙂
Reciprocity is basically give/take. No idea why andyl thinks it relates to this topic, maybe he was thinking of "consistency".
aracer - Member
Because it's a lot easier to get the required strength. There's a good reason why disc mounts are normally in the place they are.
Can you explain why? (I'm sure you don't fall into the "because I know about this stuff" camp)
C-Al,
Looking good, but next time just make a whole frame, it's easier than sticking bits to something else!
Been doing other things today. May do it tomorrow.
I.
Reaaaaally.
Can't.
Wai.... zzzzZZZZZZZZ
Reciprocity in engineering terms is about using the reciprocal principle go effect balance to prevent vibration issues. In theory I think Andyl has a point, but I dunno if the effects in practice on a bike are significant.
It onlyworks in linear systems, and I'm not even sure a bike is a linear system.
In a inear system if you input a varying displacement at one point and measure the vibration response at another point, the response is the same if you reverse the input and measurement points. So if you displace the rear brake disc, and measure the vibration at the front brake disc, then inpjt the same displacement at the front brake disc and measure the vibration at the rear, themeasurements will be the same. Think of it like the associative rule in maths (which it is actually an example of) a *b=1 and b*a =1.
So potentially by having the brakes on the same side then the vibrati8ns could cancel eachother. I'mnot convinceda bike is a linear system, I also think the chances of the brake input at both ends being equal at any time during a ride are so low that it probably makes no difference. Good practice to think like this though, and chapaeu to andyl for raising it.
Plus toys19 the two are already out of line when on the same side as front and rear hub dimensions and dropout spacing varies. ARen't they? So would Moving it less than 100mm further across be significant?
Ctznsmth, I agree.
Blimmin phone keyboard..
Just having a think. The forces on the spacer will be acting in the direction of the blue line. This means the top will be in tension and the bottom will be in comprssion.
Do you believe the top and bottom are under tension, Al?
What do you think Martin?
So potentially by having the brakes on the same side then the vibrati8ns could cancel eachother. I'mnot convinceda bike is a linear system, I also think the chances of the brake input at both ends being equal at any time during a ride are so low that it probably makes no difference. Good practice to think like this though, and chapaeu to andyl for raising it.
/pedant
Alternatively, in a complex situation you may have resonant effects and create all sorts of adverse goings on.
the primary reason for having discs on one side is that that is what we have & the mass market don't like to be challenged with differences. I don't believe that there is any significant difference, especially for a post-mount.
and I may decide my ensuite bathroom install needs my time tomorrow.
Cutlery again? I hope it's a soup spoon your planning on shitting in
[pedant] the whole conversation about reciprocity, vibration and the question of linearity or not is all about natural frequencies, resonance and the complexity of the system. But you knew that right? [/pedant]
It would not surprise me if some other market force was the driver behind disc placement, but your point about "that is what we already have" makes no reference to the first decision to make disc placment, this is what andyl is considering in his point about reciprocity.
In reality the first discplacement may have been purely down to aesthetics (which is what I suspect), but then how do we know, there is no evidence that bike designers are rational at all.
Either way andl's point about it is valid and interesting.
Andyl wrote:
1. They should be on the same side front and rear. Can't go on the drive side on the rear so must go on the non-drive side.
Umm. Pardon my French. But beau locks. 😉
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Or that bike designers actually know much when it comes to engineering.
Exactly.
we have discs on one side for two reasons.
1 it can only go on one side on the back
2 you'd have to manufacture two different calipers to have them on different sides unless you put the front one in front of the fork which looks crap.
so basically manufacturing / marketing
Ooh fair point re reciprocity. Seems irrelevant here though.
Utterly. I like clubbers version too..
Putting aside the question of attaching the mount, is there not a potential problem in using a conventional fork blade for disc braking? I thought that disc fork blades are usually beefed up at the lower end to handle the different braking forces?
haha. you're not right al!
you want teh video?
YOU CANT HANDLE TEH VIDEO!
give it to 3:50pm, FFWD to 26s in:
We see the fear in your eyes in that final scene.
Surprised it at all didn't fall to bits when you rode off the kerb
That was a nice first test, but now you have your confidence I really think you should be going a bit faster and braking a bit harder.
For some reason Al I imagined you to be a fair bit older.
dissapointed^^^^^ won't be happy till you at least arrive in frame from stage right doing a proper endo stoppie on your front wheel from about 35mph. Bonus points will of course be awarded if you arrive in shot already sliding along on your face............ 😉
As chief said, plus riding straight towards that hairdressers car