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So a funny thing happened to this week on the way home from work. Having had a few weeks off the bike my ride home resulted in me seriously bonking about five miles from home. I ended up having to stop at a pub at the top of Box Hill to fuel up on peanuts and coke. As it was about 7.30pm, the early evening regulars were already several pints in. A conversation started up with the locals recalling a funny story of how a guy in the same position once came in and ended up staying the whole night and had to call his wife to come and get him. It was a funny story and the mood seemed relaxed.
Then in a heart beat the mood changed. Properly changed. A brief pause and then one of the locals casually launches in with ‘But of course we f—in hate cyclists round here’.
Now I am as sensitive to the situation on Box Hill as the next guy but this was early evening, dark, winter and a week day. The delivery was properly hateful; honestly it was like one of those ‘film moments’ where the mood changes instantly to hate and the person on the outside suddenly sees that they really are on the outside. I responded quickly with ‘That’s alright I f—in hate motorists’, which I thought would be taken in the obvious comic spirit intended - of course I drive a car for pete’s sake.
From there we spiralled pretty quickly; next came ‘do you think it’s ok to ride two abreast and hold us all up’ and my ‘of course, we have just as much right to the road as you do’ elicited the entirely predictable response of ‘no you don’t you don’t pay road tax’, at which point I figured we’d have some fun.
After we’d dealt with the ‘there is no such thing’ point I then went with both barrels with a ‘well I pay the so called ‘road tax’ to and I pay £450 a year - how much do you pay. Oh and for the record, I’m a higher rate tax payer. Are you a higher rate tax payer? No? Then I think you should just say thank you to me for what I pay to fund the roads because I pay a lot more than you do’.
At this point the landlord and the main protagonist’s son both stepped in as the main protagonist was getting properly hateful and aggressive (I was just calmly eating my - ahem - nuts and drinking my coke). In fairness to the landlord, he did step in on my side and told them to back off, after all, all I’d done was come in to have a drink and some nuts. I was also dressed head to foot in reflective gear so they could see I was a ‘sensible cyclist’.
The protagonist went outside with the landlord and I quietly finished up. I went outside and offered my hand to the chap and said I thought we’d got off on the wrong foot, that I was sympathetic to his issues, just not to how we presented his case and he responded with similar good grace and we genuinely parted as friends (well almost).
It was a very interesting experience. I had a genuine experience of what it must feel like to be on the receiving end of hateful prejudice, albeit in a very small and isolated way.
Bloody hell, did the resulting nervous energy make you write a lot... 😀
Your mistake was going into a local pub for local people, guessing it wasn't the smith and western.
Now I am as sensitive to the situation on Box Hill as the next guy
Is Box Hill in Syria?
#firstworldproblems perchance?
Sounds like a typical 3 pint rant to me, shrug it off. And you did say you decided to have some fun so you were clearly keen for the argument too?
TBH there is no point arguing with hate filled morons.Note to self i should heed this advice on the internet just as much as i do in the real world
IME people who start off from strongly entrenched views that have limited basis in reality dont really get won over by rational debate
You made me miss. I've never missed that board before.
Oh and for the record, I’m a higher rate tax payer. Are you a higher rate tax payer? No? Then I think you should just say thank you to me for what I pay to fund the roads because I pay a lot more than you do’
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Stay on the path.
Beware the moon.
And remember the Alamo...
geetee earlier
TBH, there's always some gobshite in the pub you can take offense at be it someone a bit racist who is just "keeping it real", anti-bike, homophobic etc. It's a bit more depressing when the pissed racist actually is a mate but there you go
Oh and for the record, I’m a higher rate tax payer. Are you a higher rate tax payer? No? Then I think you should just say thank you to me for what I pay to fund the roads because I pay a lot more than you do’.
ooft, a late contender for the "Bellend of the Week" awards right there!
Shite rant, 1/10.
No capz, no nasty wordz, no finger wagz, no stropz.
And you shook handz.
Epic
Fail.
Must tryz harderz.
Oh and for the record, I’m a higher rate tax payer. Are you a higher rate tax payer? No? Then I think you should just say thank you to me for what I pay to fund the roads because I pay a lot more than you do’.
I'm with the other guy. Pls DIAF.
ooft, a late contender for the "Bellend of the Week" awards right there!
Well if the OP was going to enter into a moronic debate with a bellend then he may as well have some fun with it.
yes that he was taking the piss and annoying a pub bore he did not say it to annoy folk
As noted its a good thing to say to get folk riled so it was perfectly pitched
If he really said it and meant it then yes he is a bell end but most of you , oh the irony, have reacted as he intended you to
I had a genuine experience of what it must feel like to be on the receiving end of hateful prejudice
🙄
If he really said it and meant it then yes he is a bell end but most of you , oh the irony, have reacted as he intended you to
However, say that in a pub full of people (not all of whom you're arguing with) and everyone is likely to think you're a nobber.
disappointed it didn't end up in fistycuffs 😥
Well if the OP was going to enter into a moronic debate with a bellend then he may as well have some fun with it.
This.
I thought it was a pretty good come back myself but it was just that, a come back. It wasn't anything more and certainly wasn't the point of this post.
The experience was bordering on surreal and I just thought I'd share with 'like minded folk'. I'm certainly not looking for a class war.
I don't think the higher rate tax thing is such a bad response, in the right context. If someone is essentially suggesting the more tax you pay the more rights you have to the road then it's basically just highlighting the absurdity of that argument isn't it?
At this point the landlord and the main protagonist’s son both stepped in....
they'd worked out that if you sold your bike it would pay for free beer until xmas, the xmas party and their new year holiday
Then I think you should just say thank you to me for what I pay to fund the roads because I pay a lot more than you do’.
Just like to say thanks. And thanks for paying for the NHS and schools and wars and stuff.
Imagine everyone in the pub stood and applauded you but if they didn't they should have. Thanks again.
Just like to say thanks. And thanks for paying for the NHS and schools and wars and stuff.Imagine everyone in the pub stood and applauded you but if they didn't they should have. Thanks again.
Lay off the OP. He didn't start the stupid "I pay more tax than you therefore I have more right to the benefits" argument. The other guy did. OP was pointing out that it's a stupid argument. He's actually on the same side as you: how much tax you pay is irrelevant, everyone should be treated equally regardless of their monetary worth.
Wind yer necks in.
how much tax you pay is irrelevant, everyone should be treated equally regardless of their monetary worth.
Yes that really was my point. I'm genuinely sorry if my point was taken otherwise and caused offence here.
I'll defend the higher rate taxpayer comment.
GT isn't boasting about it - the other guy has brought up the concept of taxation as entitlement, and GT has simply shot down such a stupid argument very effectively.
Just like to say thanks. And thanks for paying for the NHS and schools and wars and stuff.Imagine everyone in the pub stood and applauded you but if they didn't they should have. Thanks again.
I don't for one minute think that GT actually believes more tax means more entitlement - he was arguing against that very idea.
Just like to say thanks. And thanks for paying for the NHS and schools and wars and stuff.Imagine everyone in the pub stood and applauded you but if they didn't they should have. Thanks again.
Whoosh!
I don't for one minute think that GT actually believes more tax means more entitlement - he was arguing against that very idea.
Oh I do. If Kerley is a lower tax rate paying pauper, we should ban him. No place for riff raff here...
[i]"Lay off the OP. He didn't start the stupid "I pay more tax than you therefore I have more right to the benefits" argument. The other guy did"[/i]
and identified that the OP didn't know how to successfully reduce his tax contribution - easy target
Apologies geetee1972, misunderstood the point.
Good job I wasn't with you in the pub...
Yeh, but whether he was just illustrating the daftness of their point or not it does sound a bit "considerably richer than yow"I don't for one minute think that GT actually believes more tax means more entitlement - he was arguing against that very idea.
how about "so you always pull over and let lorries past?"
Of course the initial mistake was engaging in the argument in the first place.
But then I know that the relationship between a Turner and an argument is akin to that between a bull and a red rag 😉
Si you do have a point, but this was less about rising to an argument and more about responding to 'hate'.
If someone had said the same thing but swapped the word 'cyclist' for something else relating to a person's identity, I would have reacted the same way.
These days I can honestly take or leave an argument (ok well maybe not quite so easily) but I think you have to call out hate and biggotry when you see it.
how about "so you always pull over and let lorries past?"
That would have been a less confrontational come back. More logical and appealing to reason. Problem was that the 'reasoned argument' of 'there is no such thing as road tax' already fell on deaf ears.
I confess that while I do not for one second believe that more tax equals more right (more a case of more salary equals a greater share of the collective responsibility), I did quite deliberately use that line because I knew it would sting as well as illustrate the idiocy of his argument.
I was, by that point, angry and wanted to get even. That might make me weak but it does also make me human.
I wouldn't have bothered countering the road tax statement but educated a little about riding two abreast and taking prime position. Did you do that?
I wouldn't have bothered countering the road tax statement but educated a little about riding two abreast and taking prime position. Did you do that?
I truncated the actual dialogue a little. His first point of gripe was riding 'two and three abreast'. I agreed that three abreast was wrong and did explain why two abreast was better all round.
Never argue with an idiot:
1) They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
2) Like wrestling with a pig: you both get covered in shit but the pig's enjoying it.
3) Onlookers cant tell the difference.
Fairplay if you had the balls to stand up verbally to a partially drunk individual. You never can tell how things might turn out and how quickly they might turn to aggression. I'm afraid if it were me I would have remained silent, finished my nuts and left.
I don't for one minute think that GT actually believes more tax means more entitlement - he was arguing against that very idea.
What I call the Alf Garnett effect. Intended as satire/ridicule yet if pitched to the 'wrong' audience often has an unintended (even opposite) effect.
ie
Those who are unashamedly racist will simply think: 'I'm right, those darkies are trouble'
Drivers who brag about their 'road rights' will simply think: 'I have more rights'. Their brains are stuck in entitled, aggrieved bigot mode. Denser than the densest material known to humanity.
Pigs, mud, enjoy etc.
PS OP good for you sticking up for The Truth, I'd have probably been much less effective, ie it would have gone Python, ministry of silly walks etc
The very worst thing about this whole debacle has been missed so far...
Nuts? Nuts?
What were you thinking man?
Scratchings every time though I suppose you get a partial bye for being in softy shandy land 😀
They didn't sell either scratchings or crisps. They didn't even sell nuts in bags. I had to spend £2 (£2!!!!!!) on a bowl of nuts. On top of that, the bloody coke cost me £2.80!
The worst part of the whole thing is that I spent £4.80 and 45 minutes in the bloody place!
I used to own a pub the worst clients were the locals straw dogs every one.
And the 3 pint comment made me smile I always said they became A holes after the 3rd.
£2.80 for coke is cheap. Is nuts the new word for women of lose morals then?
Country pubs in soft shandy land are the worst for the Straw Dogs effect out of peak times. Lucky you didn't mention fox-hunting.
The worst part of the whole thing is that I spent £4.80 and 45 minutes in the bloody place
Just over 10p a minute for an argument is Bargain!!
Python charged £1 for five minutes and that was in the early 1970's
Python charged £1 for five minutes and that was in the early 1970's
No they didn't.
slight change of tack...but is there actually a locals vs cyclists issue around boxhill?
I live very near there, cycle a lot locally and don't notice a problem. Local businesses/cafes certainly benefit and are welcoming. Dorking generally seems rather proud of the local cycling scene. And obviously plenty of locals cycle.
I'm more surprised after that you came on STW and admitted you had a car requiring £450 tax. That's bravery!
I'm more surprised after that you came on STW and admitted you had a car requiring £450 tax.
I needed a large family estate and it was cheaper to buy a big petrol rather than a diesel. At the time we didn't know how polluting diesels really were. Now I think I can claim to be saving the planet by driving a big petrol engined car.
slight change of tack...but is there actually a locals vs cyclists issue around boxhill?
Yes there absolutely is but it is probably confined to certain areas and Box Hill in particular is nightmare on the weekend even if you're on a bike let alone in a car.