Forum menu
It's been proven that humans, including experts in their field, are incapable of being totally impartial when it comes to judging a quality, for example how well two people can play the violin, or in this case why one material rides/feels better than another. So, if you know before you ride two identical bikes, with identical geometry and identical build kits, that the blue bike is supposed to be better than the red one or uses a material you prefer, the chances are that you will judge the blue bike to be better.
clubbers post on page one illustrates this perfectly.
Both frame designs especially the rear are very different, the DMR switchback was made from far too thin a profile tubes IMO, the things cracked, bent, folded, dented and exploded into a puff of smoke as soon as look at them.
Really, wish you'd told me that before I bought one and spent the interveening time having an absolute blast on it in the Peaks/Lakes/south Derbyshire and more recently jump gulley at Swinley. On the other hand if you believe an 853 frame will help your riding, maybe its not for you.
bluebird, assume you mean this post
clubber - Member
Years ago, I got a frame repainted and rebuilt it with exactly the same components as before. Told my (very experienced cyclist) mate that I'd got a new frame. He rode it and commented about how much better it was than the old one. It's amazing the different a coat of paint or a sticker can make to even experienced riders if they think they know what to expect...
I still wind him up about it 🙂
IIRC the reason cy doesn't use 853 stays is that at the back end the tube dimensions are limited by stifness rather than strength so couldn't be any lighter if they were 853. Its not worth spending the extra on fancy material.
Cy:
"So after all the slagging we've just given cromoly, you're probably wondering why the rear end of the Soul is made out of the stuff instead of 853 now that 853 stays have become available (late 2005). Well, any structural problem is simply a matter of working to the limits of the material, and the rear end of the Soul is as strong and responsive as it can be through careful design and tube specification, backed up by more than 4 years of riding through prototyping and into production. Reynolds are only offering their 853 stays in the same profiles and wall thickness as our cromoly stays so they wouldn't any lighter, just an awful lot stronger (when our cromoly rear end is perfectly strong enough) and an awful lot more expensive. For the moment, we'll stick with what we've got. "
Really, wish you'd told me that before I bought one and spent the interveening time having an absolute blast on it in the Peaks/Lakes/south Derbyshire and more recently jump gulley at Swinley. On the other hand if you believe an 853 frame will help your riding, maybe its not for you.
Firstly I've had two Switchbacks crack at the seat tube and one that had a dented to tube from a very minor fall, OK that could happen to any bike but I've fallen off lots of bikes and that is the only one I have dented.
Secondly, There were quite a few Switchbacks that collapsed at the head tube early on.
Thirdly, I don't believe 853 is anything other than expensive steel and makes bugger all difference to the ride.
Fourthly, I now detest steel bikes in all their forms.
And all those who ride them, right, KT? 😉
****s the lot of them.
Firstly I've had two Switchbacks crack at the seat tube and one that had a dented to tube from a very minor fall, OK that could happen to any bike but I've fallen off lots of bikes and that is the only one I have dented.Secondly, There were quite a few Switchbacks that collapsed at the head tube early on.
1) bought a bike a size too small after falling for the shorter is more hardcore magazine boloks by any chance?
2) first batch apparently had a dodgy gusset (fnar fnar) mitre or some such fault. And tended to be bought by people looking for a trailstar 2lb lighter. Later ones had no ISCG tabs to differentiate it as an 'XC' frame. Oddly 'quite a few' folded always leads back to that one video of a guy crashing one on you-tube.
Reynolds 531, 853 etc and Cromoly = Low alloy steels
http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=89&pageid=2144417037
spoon - I think it's fair to say that a few did break and KT bought had the right sized one (he's too jey for anything too small). Pretty sure he never crashed it hard FWIW - again, too jey...
1) bought a bike a size too small after falling for the shorter is more hardcore magazine boloks by any chance?
I'm 6'2" frames(s) were 20", set up for XC, I don't do hardcore riding.
EDIT: Clubbers right, doesn't stop it making him a **** though. 😉
Recently gone from a Columbus Nemo tubed Cove HJ to an 853 maintubed Pipdream, not noticed any difference in ride, nor weight. Still a nice steel frame, but no advnatages over the Nemo tubing in how it feels to ride.
Thanks for the replys guys, really appreciate it. 😀