Are they any worse though? Granted, those that feel compelled to upgrade all the time have more to think about, but are the people that buy a new bike once in a blue moon and keep it for quite a while really going to lose out if 650b are what's readily available just now?
So, upside down forks then... 😉
At worst they can't be significantly worse, for the same reason that at best they're not significantly better- it's a very small change. (Nico Vouilloz, the king of bike testing, decided that it's .55% faster on his test track)
The point isn't whether 650b is better or worse; it's whether it's a big enough difference to justify retooling an entire industry, making existing designs and stock obsolete, making your bike worth less and making it harder to upgrade. And tbf I don't think anyone believes it is.
Most of the bike shops round here stock a high percentage of mtb's compared to road bikes.
I guess that must have something to do with having such amazing off road riding round here.
Where is this, then?
RSPCA called; there are only 11 kittens left in the country.
ratherbeintobago - Member
Most of the bike shops round here stock a high percentage of mtb's compared to road bikes.
I guess that must have something to do with having such amazing off road riding round here.
Where is this, then?
Probably Norfolk
In my last post, I was attempting to be prosaic and succinct...should have added some caveats like
Feel free to experiment with different wheel sizes on a 29er for added danger/ excitement/ wilderness touring potential, at the loss of mechanical efficiency and traction.
Personally, though I wouldn't go back to 26", I got fed up with the 'gorilla on a moped' analogy.
There's no reason why someone 5'2" or less shouldn't ride a 29er if it fits. I'm aware that there must be a certain size at which the bigger wheels cause toe overlap and/ or geometry issues.
I just assumed as a ballpark figure that 5'2" was the minimum. My bad.
But to offer only 650b as the perfect, goldilocks wheel size, would be daft, given differences in human height and performance/ thrill-seeking expectations.
I recently rode in a group of 7, and 4 of the 7 were riding 650b wheel bikes. I'd say that's a little way off dead.
I notices Spec have released a couple of models as well - looks like it's hear to stay.
the lads at btr dont seem to think so they busted their balls quite literally bringing this to market
[img][url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/14583755010_09d6a5e1a5_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/14583755010_09d6a5e1a5_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/odHygU ]btr pinner 650b sneak peak[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]mike mcdermid[/url], on Flickr[/img]
I'm not sure wheel size is the limiting factor for most STW riders 😀
Surely a better title would be
[b]What waist size for STW 36-38" seems to be the standard but I've been over taken by some riders on 32" waists, will a 30-32" waist improve my riding regardless of wheels size?[/b]
Wheel size debate aside, I'd question the OP's grasp of statistics - just because I know nobody who drives a Ford Fiesta doesn't stop it from just becoming the most popular UK car ever.
Setting aside Kitten Murder for a minute I'd Say 650b is here to stay, simply due to industry wide adoption, 26" isn't gone, and it all still works of course, but the strategy of "shifting standards" will work long term, and people will pretty much all end up using slightly bigger wheels within the next decade or so...
It's not a trick I think they'll be able to pull again without huge amount of negative comeback though, fair enough ~30 odd yeas of 26" and they've only just decided 650b is a "better standard"...
But lets be clear, Do it again and it's wee and bombers for the whole cycle industry (and probably a kittens head in each of their beds)...
Personally I'm wringing all the use I can get from my 26" wheeled bikes, but I will eventually have to adopt the prevailing standard, I shall not grumble when that time comes, TBF its only a bloody wheel...
The BTR guys did the 650b Pinner because people pretty much demanded it, not because they necessarily thought it was better, the Pinner was originally 26in only, but so many people made noises about being more interested if it was 650b that they sorted a 650b version [b]as well*[/b].
Whether or not it is better, is not the issue, it was originally a 26er and it very much looks like the punters steered them towards offering 650b, whether that's due to said punters genuinely believing in 650b, or being hooked by the BS and now too scared to buy a 26 is another matter!
*something the bigger manufacturers are not doing, and the source of most of the grumbles, it's not that people don't like 650b, it's that they are grumpy the option of 26 is being removed so quickly and with questionable reasoning behind it.
At the end of the day parts for your 26er will be available, probably for as long as your frame will last anyway, so it's no biggie.
It's only the serial upgraders and meddlers that are going to be affected really, and bikes are a bizarre anomaly really, a sport where for the most part, different parts from different manufactures are freely interchangeable. There's always been the odd company trying to be more integrated (Cannondale, Klein etc.) and you see it happening more and more now shocks and parts become tuned to the specific bike, and some parts integral and proprietary, I think this is where we are headed in the long run, more integration, more proprietary formats, especially at the top end and at some point your wheels might be the only things you can swap between bikes! Axle standards and widths permitting of course 😉
full suss was an obvious and massive benefit
Was it? Early FS bikes were pretty shit, and even now they're not exactly ubiquitous. Bit like any of the wheel sizes taken discretely.
darkcyan - MemberI noticed Spec have released a couple of models as well - looks like it's hear to stay.
For 2015 Specialized have dropped 26" bikes completely above the entry level Hardrock hardtail, with the exception of a couple of their DH bikes which will be available 26" & 650B, and their fat bike.
650B might be late to the party and unwelcome in some quarters but it's here to stay.
ok I give in - it's probably not a dead standard.
Apologies to any kittens that may have been harmed as a result of my rash statement.
what is this kitten thing anyway?
what is this kitten thing anyway?
Every time someone starts a wheel size thread, a kitten dies.
darkcyan - Memberok I give in - it's probably not a dead standard.
Splitter!
🙂
Was it? Early FS bikes were pretty shit, and even now they're not exactly ubiquitous in the UK.
Fify.
The OP knows at least 2 650b riders on a Thursday night at Stanmer anyway - so his powers of observation pretty hopeless anyway ;)) !!!
They're not though anywhere, look at XC racing, still plenty of hardtails. The Europeans still love their old school hardtails too - long stems and narrow bars.
I'm going to get some serious stick on Thursdays 🙁
was browsing at giant bikes and picked up a giant catalogue in a newish bikeshop, which list the pros and cons. Something like 6 small/medium disadvantages iirc over 26 inch.. then one largeish advantage considerably more contact area in theory...iirc mmmmm 🙄 At least their honest I guess. Deffo not as straight cut though as we are being led to believe imho. Surely 24/26/650b/29 all have a place.
They're not though anywhere, look at XC racing, still plenty of hardtails. The Europeans still love their old school hardtails too - long stems and narrow bars.
Meanwhile in the rest of the world....
Hardtails are still there for XC racing, apart from that above entry level they are not that common. Again LBS have about 3 on display all have been there for the last 6 months, all the FS bikes have been sold and rotated at least 3 times. With the exception of XC whippets racing HT's are not that common down here in Oz.
Edit and 12 yo dirt jumpers
Didn't say they were common necessarily, but FS Isn't universal in the same was as disc brakes, as per the original example.
Hard tails I feel are undergoing a resurgence in the UK as people either move from a FS back to HT or more likely buy one as a second, third bike, or build a single speed. Probably the majority of people I ride with have a hard tail, even if they ride a full sus also. Though I know a few who only have hard tails and talk of full sus as some kind of dark evil.
Then there's the whole field of All Mountain hard tails. Seen a lot of those about, and several I ride with have such a bike. I have one that would be an AM hard tail if it wasn't for the old rubbish fork I have on it.
And on the subject of AM Hard Tails *and* 650b... I give you the Bird 😀
[url= http://www.birdmtb.co.uk ]birdmtb.co.uk[/url] (especially the Zero.AM)
Reviews coming out in magazines now and coming out pretty good.
There are loads of HTs about here in the UK Mike, and for our indigenous brands (think On One, Singular, Cotic, Genesis etc) it's their bread and butter. (OK, Orange is an exception!)
futon river crossing - MemberThe OP knows at least 2 650b riders on a Thursday night at Stanmer anyway - so his powers of observation pretty hopeless anyway ;)) !!!
Think that says a lot about the enormous difference between 26 and 650b doesn't it? I think the enormous logos they plastered 650b parts with are pretty telling.
iamroughrider - Memberwas browsing at giant bikes and picked up a giant catalogue in a newish bikeshop, which list the pros and cons. Something like 6 small/medium disadvantages iirc over 26 inch.. then one largeish advantage considerably more contact area in theory...iirc mmmmm At least their honest I guess
(I am not a scientist but) I've heard it said that contact patch is dependent on weight/pressure and tyre carcass rather than tyre size- the shape changes but the size remains constant if all other variables are the same/equivalent.)
(I am not a scientist but) I've heard it said that contact patch is dependent on weight/pressure and tyre carcass rather than tyre size- the shape changes but the size remains constant if all other variables are the same/equivalent
For a a perfect circle touching a perfect plane, the contact patch will the same regardless of circle diameter. Other variables may make a difference but it's not directly down to the wheel size.
yeah i thought it was interesting at the time.
Think it was the contact patch though. Have a look yourself if you can. I think there was two or three pages with this information in the catologue.
It may well have been the contact patch whilst rolling obstacles .I think there was information about the angle of attack or something if i remember.
i guess for a given tyre pressure a larger diameter tyre will flatten more than a smaller tyre and therefore provide more grip. This was considerably more than a 26 inch and very close to a 29 inch without many of the 29 inch trade off's. The angle of attack was described as also much better than a 26 inch and not far off of the 29 inch. All the stat's on these and other factors are listed iirc.
For a a perfect circle touching a perfect plane, the contact patch will the same regardless of circle diameter. Other variables may make a difference but it's not directly down to the wheel size.
a tyre flattens though when load is placed upon it, so a larger tyre has a larger contact area. simples.
iamroughrider - Membera tyre flattens though when load is placed upon it, so a larger tyre has a larger contact area.
Nah, because the larger tyre will deform less for the same weight. I think 😉
that's another feline friend just gone 😈
There is a reason why pressure is measured in pounds per square inch. Weight on the wheel divided by tyre pressure gives you the area of the contact patch in square inches. Tyre diameter doesn't enter into it. Ok, there are subtle differences in the shape of the contact patch and the way the pressure changes as the tyre deforms (which is linked to air volume) but these are second order effects.
I've got a 28er and a 26 and I can't say I've ever managed to detect this supposed difference in traction. There may be a small difference but it is irrelevant in practice. If you want more grip just fit stickier tyres.
i guess they roll better.
It is all fanny,
I was reading an old article about choosing wheels (not wheel size as this was before the new standard and surrounding guff but a buyers guide to what to look for when buying new wheels).
And it said the lighter the better,for all the obvious reasons, one being easier steering due to reduced gyroscopic effect blah blah.
And have read newer articles about the 650b saying it is better due to heavier/larger wheels mean more stability in a straight line due to gyroscopic effect blah.
Then lighter was better more acceleration, now a larger/ heavier wheel carries more momentum.
People have previously said that short chainstays are better easier to get the front wheel off the ground, more agile blah blah.
Now 650 are better as bike is longer, stability blah blah.
If you want a larger contact patch buy bigger tyres, or let your tyres down. greater contact patch means more grip,
horah, means more friction, boo.
Correct tyres. And you're golden, I have never suffered with a lack of grip an thought balls if only my wheels were a little bit bigger. No I though maybe a more appropriate tyre selection was needed.
The whole wheel debate and surrounding arguments are like Nostradamus,
Interpret as best serves your view point.
If you have a new bike, and it's great, I am happy for you.
But it's just a wheel that's a little bit bigger.
