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I think we maybe lost perspective on pricing in the last few years. I look at some 3k bikes now and think they are a bargain. Whereas I’d not have went near them 3 or so years ago.
When I first worked in a bike shop (probably about 1996), it was unusual to have anything much above £2000 in store - not because it was a bargain basement place, it wasn't at all but most bikes topped out at about £2000, maybe £2500 at a push.
I remember selling a GT STS 1 in about 1998:
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to some flash git who had zero interest in how any of it worked he simply wanted "the most expensive bike in the shop" and I think that was £3000 for a full XTR, carbon frame, RS Judy XC Ti forks etc.
Now, £3000 is an average price in any half-decent shop. Probably entry-level if you consider road-only shops where £6000 and upwards is "normal".
It is insane.
I don't think mountain bikes have ever been such good value unless you don't understand inflation or insist on paying full price.
Parts too. I just built a very nicely specced Big Al for £1,100. SLX, 36, DT Swiss, carbon bars, 200mm dropper, 4 pot brakes, etc...
yeah but the original post was about 2k bikes having crap kit on them which is mainly true. I've a Procaliber 9.6 for instance. The frame is superb and the brakes and forks should be illegal. I can't believe RS can produce such a crap fork in 2022 as the Recon - its worse than my 10 yr old sektor and that was a cheap fork. The brakes are one or two down from Deore! They are so bad its comical. How much more would it have been to put deore -- oh but then we'd have had to lose the totally pointless (comparitively) 12sp drive train with an XT mech. WTF??? an XT mech yet we have brakes that wouldn't look out of place on a £300 Halfords bike. Yes its marketing and one of many many many reasons why I hate marketeers.
The marketeers are at it again... https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/spectral-125/cf/spectral-125-cf-7/3426.html?dwvar_3426_pv_rahmenfarbe=SR&dwvar_3426_pv_rahmengroesse=S
£2,350 delivered. Pike, DT Swiss, GX, Code RS, full CF.
The bastards, I hate them.
£2,350 delivered. Pike, DT Swiss, GX, Code RS, full CF.
No xx1 axs pft, in my day you'd have had yumeya at that.
Non RSC brakes? Instant death, not even good enough for pedaling round the office carpark.
Not even 38mm stanchions, they'll flex more than boris's morals.
^^^^ 😂
rOcKeTdOg
I’ve always bought complete bikes with the lowest end components but the highest end frame that I could. Because Inevitably the spec isn’t going to be exactly what you want even at a higher price point so you’ll swap stuff out. At least with the good frame you can bolt on your fav components when the stock ones wear out. It kinda spreads the cost of your dream bike out over time rather than one hit
Probably man economics but has always worked for me
Y
Yeah, I fool myself with the same nonsense. I'm glad to have someone to back me up.
I brought a 2022 Ripmo at a heavily discounted price. The frame and suspension are excellent, lovely frame and top end fox factory, everything else although perfectly usable is what I would call budget for a bike that had an RRP of £6799 earlier this year. I certainly wouldn’t pay RRP.
@Winston - It’s always been this way. For years they’ve stuck a fancy mech on a bike to make it seem fancier. And it works, people look at the fancy mech and fall for it.
But as someone earlier said, a lot of these bikes would have been specced a few years ago when brands were struggling to get components. Some product managers (can’t remember who) stated on a podcast that to get parts they were sometimes having to buy bits from CRC, Jenson, etc because it just wasn’t available OEM.
The brakes are one or two down from Deore!
Aw you poor dear!
Aside from the fact they work fine (I have 2 sets of pattern Shimano brakes) I can actually see your point. That's what Pinnacle Ramins were getting specced with around the 400 quid mark about 8 years ago.
anderzzFree Member<br />I think we maybe lost perspective on pricing in the last few years. I look at some 3k bikes now and think they are a bargain. Whereas I’d not have went near them 3 or so years ago.<br /><br />
Really ? A few years back I could afford nice bikes, nice cars. My wages simply haven’t kept up to be able afford these luxury goods and I’m sure many others haven’t. Mind you Mrs FD and I work in the NHS so maybe other people’s salaries have kept up with this huge price increases
Welcome to inflation. Back in 2000 (for instance) the equivalent price tag for a bike being sold for £2000 now would’ve been about £950. What spec would you expect that bike to have?
£1150 according to the BoE, but of that £850 increase over the last 24years, £360 of it (~40%) has happened in the last 3.5y....That's quite alarming.
Everyone is aware that SRAM, Shimano and all the frame factories charge in USD right?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBPUSD=X/
We have fallen a long way from the dizzy heights of late 2007. We have fallen further since the crash of 2008. We have fallen lower than the point it crashed to after Brexit vote was called.
I think some bike specs are deliberately poor in order to make the more expensive model seem like better value. I've seen this numerous times especially in Decathlon.
But there is plenty of evidence that bicycles RRP has definitely gone up over the last 3-4 years by quite a margin.
This article outlines the reasons why quite well.
There are however some fantastic bargains out there at the moment so I'd not pay RRP for any bike in the current climate.
There are some really good £2k bikes out there, as someone up the thread pointed out - kit like Deore gears & brakes and Marz Z2 forks are functionally excellent.
I took the thread to be about the other half of £2k bikes that have RS 35 or Recon Silver forks, Sram SX or worse, terrible brakes etc. and feel like they've been put together purely on (low) cost rather than by a rider.
I agree with you Chakaping, nothing wrong with Deore on a 2k bike, it works great. I thought this thread was aimed at the bikes that until recently would have had Rockshox Rev/Yari, Deore/NX gears, mid level brakes, etc now being shipped with tat like SX or the really low end RS forks? some of the equipment spec'd on 2k+ bikes is woeful.
some of the equipment spec’d on 2k+ bikes is woeful
But this has always been the case.
Yes it's SC and they've always been pricey with crap kit but that's sort of the point.
You can still get a good bike for 2k rrp so long as you're not a brand snob. You can buy a PoS with fancy stickers if you are.
20 years ago you could still spend circa 2k on a nicely suckered* poorly equipped bike.
*that should have been stickered but auto correct seems to have done a better job.
Think again, shiny drivetrain rules all
TBH it always does on the show stands,advertisements it’s part of the being the halo product that gets your attention.
That ultra lightweight carbon frame woven on the thighs of nymphs which is 4x the cost of the one you end up with but is only 200grms lighter but has a distinct frame colour to mark out its rarity/exclusivity.
It’s just bike snobbery, in the reality the low end isn’t really low end it shifts just as well as the high end nowadays but that has a prettier design or materials.
'entry level' now seems to include a full Sus frame, dropper, 4+" of quality damped travel front and rear and comparatively lighter, stronger, cheaper parts than ever before.
At what point did entry level change from a £700 hardtail to a 2k full Sus. - you can still get a good entry level hardtail for the 700-1000 mark.
It's not that the 'entry level' prices have risen, just our expectations of what 'entry level' should contain.
It’s just bike snobbery, in the reality the low end isn’t really low end it shifts just as well as the high end nowadays but that has a prettier design or materials.
It does, but IME you’re often sacrificing durability and build quality at the lower end. Quite often, outside of what is said in the initial press releases, that’s not obvious.
If I’m planning on using something regularly, in the long run I tend to find it more economical to spend a bit more initially.
For example higher end chains and cassettes seem to last much longer than cheaper ones IME.
Now, £3000 is an average price in any half-decent shop. Probably entry-level if you consider road-only shops where £6000 and upwards is “normal”.
My LBS is a Specialized dealer. They sell more than a few S Works models (although Specialized apparently wants them to sell even more) so £10k +
According to the manager, a lot of those sales go to people who aren’t even that keen cyclists, they just want something that’s “the best”.
I’d love to know what % of the bikes sold for over a £1000 are basically ridden very little. My hunch is that most don’t get through a drive train. As we came out of lock down there were loads of high end e-bikes out on local gravel rides. I haven’t seen one this year. I have a cousin with a carbon BMC, full Dure-Ace gathering dust in the garage. I remember Phil Corley (who runs a bike shop) telling me that in some ways his competition in retail are Hi Fi and other stuff that’s a discretionary high price purchase.
I think the effect of all of this is that bikes aren’t necessarily specked for cyclists. Most owners don’t need to replace that cheap bottom bracket.
I think the real pain of bike inflation will hit next year. I think the high rrp will stay and the discounts will go. They’ll just build less bikes for next year
They’ll be a moan from many that this is profiteering. I think the reality as is that it will be a fight for survival
I’d love to know what % of the bikes sold for over a £1000 are basically ridden very little. My hunch is that most don’t get through a drive train.
I think that you're probably right.
Another thing that I think that has contributed to bike price inflation is the replacement of the mid-range hardtail with the lower-end full suspension in many manufacturers product line ups.
I’d love to know what % of the bikes sold for over a £1000 are basically ridden very little. My hunch is that most don’t get through a drive train.
In about 2013/14, eBay was full of road bikes for sale, many of them Pinarello, most hardly used.
The aftermath of the London Olympics / Bradley Wiggins / Team Sky boom all being sold off... I remember reading one of the adverts which openly stated that it had only done dry weather laps of Richmond Park...
(yes, I know, how very stereotypical! 😂 )
They’ll just build less bikes for next year.
This is absolutely happening. Not for the brand I work with, but with others using the same suppliers.
They’ll be a moan from many that this is profiteering.
Much moaning.
Part of this doesn’t just relate to the bike industry. I’ve been saying since 2016 that, once we are far enough away from the “decision”, the stories of “rip off Britain” will start being everywhere. In most sectors. We are poorer. Segmented markets add massive costs and reduce choices.
The other part is about unsustainable businesses in our sector setting unrealistic expectations on prices. Yes, some brands can still sell at prices that look more like those of the previous decade, but their costs and market access have changed completely (and many of the new customers the pandemic brought to them are happy with their relatively new bike, or moved on). Without realistic pricing, they will fail… but also take with them some other brands who can’t match their prices. We can see this happening right now.
If you go into a specialist concept store at the moment there are a load of fairly heavily discounted road bikes (vs rrp) that are still all north of £7k. When I price up my current road bike with a Dolan carbon frame (1100g ish), 11 speed Ultegra di2, Hope RX4 brakes and various carbon finishing kit / Hunt 4 seasons road wheels it come in around £3.5k. Other than sticking some blingier carbon aero wheels on it I don’t fully see what all the extra money really buys you. Maybe a little bit of weight saving and a fancier name on the frame - anything else? Would guess mine is 8 - 8.5kgs so could maybe lose a kg off that with a fancier bike?
Oh, I rock Deore and Fox Rhythm on my bike… find a £2K bike with that stuff on and it’ll kick the nuts of any £2K bike from a decade ago… some amazingly good and reliable kit available now for affordable builds. Better than ever.
The thread is really about this:
I thought this thread was aimed at the bikes that until recently would have had Rockshox Rev/Yari, Deore/NX gears, mid level brakes, etc now being shipped with tat like SX or the really low end RS forks?"<blockquote
I'm not bemoaning inflation and another "aren't bikes so expensive" type thread. I find it surprising certain manufactures (Giant for example) are happy to put out £2-£2.5K RRP bike with a Rock Shox Judy and still put these on their £800 hardtails. If you look at the 2023 Giant line up all the full suspension bikes in that price range have low end forks, do they just assume the riders buy and upgrade them? Low end Deore is really good kit no issues with this, it's the cheap heavy wheels and forks really.
The thread is really about this:
I find it surprising certain manufactures (Giant for example) are happy to put out £2-£2.5K RRP bike with a Rock Shox Judy and still put these on their £800 hardtails.
Well, that sounds a bit like ”why do full-suspension bikes cost so much more than a hardtail for a similar spec”. There are answers to that.
Cutting corners (spec) to hit a price point is nothing new. If it’s more prevalent at certain price points for new stock bikes right now, then this looks a lot like the shrinkflation in action everywhere else (have you noticed how butter, orange juice and most staples in UK only packaging is sold in smaller sizes now).
Wouldn’t touch a bike with SX. No idea what a modern Judy offers as a fork though, might not be shit.
If you look at the 2023 Giant line up all the full suspension bikes in that price range have low end forks, do they just assume the riders buy and upgrade them?
I think it's more about the way that people buy these days. To most people a "full suspension bike" is a commodity item, ie it doesn't matter to them who manufactured it, and their initial interest is based on price.
If they're buying off the internet, then that's it, the manufacturer needs to have something at that price point that competes with the Boardman, Go Outdoors etc bikes, or they lose the sale.
If they then come into the shop, it's an opportunity for the salesperson to upsell. Everyone who's turning over a new leaf and is going to take up mountain biking over-estimates how much they'll be using it, so "this base model will suit you, but if you go to the next one up, then it's got better fork/drivetrain etc."
I've got a few friends I ride with who are obsessed with getting bargains. As an observer it seems to me that they spend a fair amount of time dealing with stuff that has failed because it's just not great quality.
There's some pretty epic deals around the 2k mark at the minute though. The Specialized Epic deal, the various Vitus / Nukeproof offers at Chiggle. No one is paying RRP for bike stuff any more, it's a buyers market now.
I don’t think mountain bikes have ever been such good value unless you don’t understand inflation or insist on paying full price.
Depends how far back you look, my first propper bike cost £275 in 2002 and had a full Deore groupset, Rockshox fork, Maxxis tyres and Ritchey finishing kit. That's still only £480 today and I can't see anything even close to that for value?
There has definitely been a lack of value in the whole industry since about 2014ish, back then an "entry level" FS (i.e. a good one like the Giant VT, Specialized Pitch, Cannondale Prophet) cost £1200-£1800ish which would now be £2k-£2.5k which is probably close to the current reality TBH. On the other hand there was a period 2015-2019 ish where neither Rockshox or Fox had a mid travel budget fork worth buying untill Rockshox made the 35 and Marzocchi made the Z2.
find a £2K bike with that stuff on and it’ll kick the nuts of any £2K bike from a decade ago
I had a £2k bike in 1999. Full XT 3x9, v-brakes, Manitou SX ti forks with 80mm travel, Fox Vanilla shock. It wasn't until I bought another £2k bike ten years later that I realised just how flexy the whole thing was. But any £2k bike today will be far better to ride than either of those, despite being quite a lot heavier.
There has definitely been a lack of value in the whole industry since about 2014ish, back then an “entry level” FS (i.e. a good one like the Giant VT, Specialized Pitch, Cannondale Prophet) cost £1200-£1800ish which would now be £2k-£2.5k which is probably close to the current reality
True, I have linked the excelent spec Spectral 125 upthread (CF, GX, Lyric, DT Swiss etc...) which is around £2,300 and nowhere near entry level. In 2014 that would have been closer to £3,500 I think and without a dropper which is even more today when inflation adjusted.
I really think that we never had it so good in terms of value.
There’s some pretty epic deals around the 2k mark at the minute though. The Specialized Epic deal, the various Vitus / Nukeproof offers at Chiggle. No one is paying RRP for bike stuff any more, it’s a buyers market now.
Which means that the entire supply chain is running on wafer thin margins at best, if not an outright loss in places.
Which means debts right throughout the chain, low wages/job cuts at the front end and, as everyone goes after the big online deals, a worse market for the high street LBS.
It's really not a healthy situation at the moment - sure, a few people are going to get some good deals on new bikes or kit but medium term outlook is pretty bleak.