[Closed] 29er for dh racing

Makes no difference to racing at the end of the day.

If you add clown wheels to pyjamas, you may as well go to the circus instead 😉

In my opinion, baring bad luck with mechanicals, the fittest and most skilful rider usually wins. They're likely to be riding whatever wheel size their sponsor is currently pushing.

+2. It's a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

You do talk some shit.

Less than 140mm 26er, on a similar race.

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

The Sea Otter DH isn't anything like a DH or anything else for that matter. It's pathetic. Fontana is another world. As the photo on the MBA site shows.

Ah, OK. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, I don't really follow DH racing and I'm not too well up on the spec of various bike.
A Stumpjumper is a 140mm travel XC 29er then ?
So, which is more remarkable, that the race was won on a bike with 3" bigger wheels or 60mm less suspension travel ?

The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

Yeah.....

[img] [/img]

+2. It's a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

How come the worlds fastest DH rider didn't win then?

Yeah.....

What am I supposed to be looking at? I've ridden it. It's barely a slope.

But do keep going with your guessing games.

What am I supposed to be looking at? I've ridden it. It's barely a slope.

That'll be Fontana......

How come the worlds fastest DH rider didn't win then?

Out of interest.... with a view from those that like 29ers and ride (or would like) a Covert 29er, Tallboy LT, Mythic Banshee, Specialized Enduro for their riding why do we think 29ers aren't in DH format yet? Is it because they can't engineer the level of travel without getting a stupidly long bike? The wheels, despite Enve wonders, just aren't strong/stiff enough to cope with the rough DH courses? Smaller riders would find the reduced maneuverability an issue in tight twisty sections? Bigger riders would find the same problem and therefore they're not really suited for the application?

For the record I'm pro 29er personally. At 6ft 3 i've found them to be a revelation for me but i do think for the more aggro end of riding it could be height dependent as i have no issues moving the wheels around on the ground, in the air, wherever.

I'd also like to add that i couldn't care less what wheel size gwin etc ride, i just like watching people go very fast over rough terrain. Could be quite fun if some are on 29ers, 26ers etc.

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

Have you?

Because a 140mm 26" trail bike has never won, or got near winning a DH race.

😆

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

The Sea Otter DH isn't anything like a DH or anything else for that matter. It's pathetic. Fontana is another world. As the photo on the MBA site shows.

You could just admit you were talking nonsense, having been directly proved wrong. People have won DH races on Orange Fives here BTW.

The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

Wow, that's amazing - what's your evidence for such a bold claim?

I only opened this thread to see if the usual 26/29 suspects would be doing their thing. They are, and i won myself a prize (a kit-kat chunky). Thanks chaps, it was lovely.

I have a stumpy evo (26) and would happily race dh on it. I doubt i'd win, but i wouldn't be last.

For the record, I'm not anti 29er. I just don't agree that they are "better".
IDGAF what anyone rides.

JCL
The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

wrecker - Member

For the record, I'm not anti 29er. I just don't agree that they are "better".

They are waaay more than simply being better. They destroy them (with laser beams i presume)

FRIKKIN' LAAAAZER BEAMS!!!

For the record, I'm not anti 29er. I just don't agree that they are "better".
IDGAF what anyone rides.

It's bettererer when your talking about bigger wheels 🙂

Paceman - Member
pussywillow - Member
Makes me wonder....wouldn't surprise me if they start to tailor the courses to suit 29ers..ie more flat pedally sections...the way the industry is going it really would not surprise me!
[b]Have you actually ridden a decent 29er FS Trail Bike?? Flat trails suit smaller wheels, bigger wheels eat rock gardens and roots. I'm not suggesting they're suitable for DH racing, but seriously you're talking rubbish.[/b]
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST[/

If a clown bike was being ridden hard by a top dhiller through a technical rock garden, there would be nothing left of his flimsy big wheel, So there for the rock garden would have eaten his wheel.

Oh and I have ridden a circus bike before but I didn't right enjoy the feeling of riding a barge gate
😆

 

An XC race was won in the US on a CX bike a few years ago. A protest ride as much as anything, saying the course wasn't technical enough.

CX bikes didn't take off in XC riding after that, but they do suit the odd ride here and there, pretty quick in the right situation..

Oh and I have ridden a circus bike before but I didn't right enjoy the feeling of riding a barge gate

You might want to take a look at your riding skills then Pussywillow, perhaps a skills course would help you.

You might want to take a look at your riding skills then Pussywillow, perhaps a skills course would help you.

LOL. That is a hilariously transparent comment. He may be awesome on a bike for all you know. Some people just don't like 29ers. Get over it.

I'm still not convinced 29" wheels for DH would be ideal everywhere, but they've got some clear performance advantages for certain aspects of what any MTB might be required to do including a DH bike.

TBH I'm Pretty sure that even if 29ers do manage few wins in DH events they won't replace 26" completely.

It's been talked about for the last couple of years by various people and monkeying with wheel sizes to gain a competitive advantage is something I'm sure any sensible team with the resources will be considering right now, a bit less travel and a bit more wheel might be the way to go, at least in some instances...

27.5" / 650b for all my derision of it would probably perform reasonably for DH, but then why go developing a whole range of new equipment with all the compatibility issues and gamble of consumer uptake around a [U]slightly[/U] bigger wheel for DH.
I mean you are basically talking about adding an extra 19mm radially on a wheel, I can see more scope in refining 26" DH tyres (already an ongoing activity) or jumping whole sale on the 29er wagon...

Intense are trying out a 650b DH bike this year apparently, but I'd be interested to see the commercial viability of such a bike if it's not Podiuming at a few higher profile races, I don't think the DH kiddies will splurge Ma 'n' Pa's 5k+ on one without some WC wins to point to as justification...

What I can see happening in the next couple of searons perhaps is WC level riders considering a front end swap for each course:

Sticking with the same 26" wheeled frame and perhaps switching between a 26" front wheel and fork for more technical courses and losing ~40mm of travel to run a 29" front wheel/fok and maintain similar geometry on faster smoother courses where a reduction in rolling resistance up front means less rider fatigue and hopefully a bit more energy for Pedal strokes in the bottom section.

It would be a pretty quick switch TBH drop the fork out of the crowns, fit the alternative fork, attach wheel and brake and go. perhaps coupled with a better rolling 26" rear tyre and maybe a slightly firmer shock, if you can make a bike suit a given course better and optimize the riders chances, then why wouldn't you?

+2. It's a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

And when all the riders are very similarly talented, trained and experienced? Then the equipment (and that's all the bike really is) starts to become more a more important factor again.

It's not the be all end all, but equipment choices do contribute to the result.

Why do you think many of us are riding slacker angled bikes now?
Because back in the early to mid 00's WC DH riders started asking for more stable bikes that placed the wheel further in front for steep sections to stop the old "tucking under" sensation.

Trickle down to the consumer now means it's generally accepted and understood that "Slacker is better" for DH riding, and you can go out and buy a ~61 deg HA DH bike if you want, a decade or so ago people would have laughed at that number, but I'm sure some people would ask if it can take a slackset now...

DH is far too young a sport to have developed stupid "traditions" that dictate what you can / can't use, it's not Road racing FFS...

when i posted this yesterday, i thought it might have been an april fools.
the results are up on the usacycling site.
ignoring the wheel size, i can't believe he won on a trail bike.
**** hitting that rock garden flat out on a trail bike....

650b DH bike came third, 26 inch DH bike came second. The wheels had nothing to do with it....the weight and travel of the bike did.

As others have mentioned.... that course can barely be called a downhill track.

Hitting shortish rock gardens at speed on a trail bike is not the problem...this would cause little loss of time and little fatigue to someone on a trail bike....hitting rock gardens at speed for lengths of time is a problem. That's when milliseconds start to add up and fatigue starts to set in. Trail bikes have won downhill events before,.... sea otter, Lopse at US nationals etc.

I'll accept 29ers are better when we see results like this on multiple tracks and tracks where one would not expect them to win - eg Champery.

29ers are better when

somebody else is paying for your wheels

Nice thing about 26 all mountain bikes is that they can do everything quite literally...reasonably well...my brother was whipping out a nomad the other day on the biggest doubles at sherwood pines...i dont think he could have hit the rhythms perfectly on a 29er or got as much style off them.

Have you?

A few years ago but yep.

Anyway this is all good fun but I've gotta get on with building my new 29'er up.

The haters will work out they're faster soon enough I'm sure.

I see no one has pointed out that Logan Binggeli came third on a 26er trail bike, which suggests it was a course for trail bikes, rather than DH bikes.

I'm curious as to why Ropelato decided to race DH with a large water bottle on his bike.

Edit: Looking at it, it may been a 650.

Still suggests it was a course for trail bikes even if third was a 650b trail bike. 29ers might be faster for that kind of track which is close to what most middle aged audi driving mtbers ride...the majority of mtbers....I doubt they will be for places like champery and they will never be better for youngsters that like air time.

Looking at videos of that track, short travel light bikes have a huge advantage even disregarding 29ers. In a way it shows how damn good gwin was to place that high on a demo 8.

Looking at the helmet cam footage it is easy to see a DH bike would have lost a lot of time over the last pedally section, especially compared to a more pedal-friendly trail bike. I'd be interested to see the split times on the way down.

was whipping out a nomad the other day on the biggest doubles at sherwood pines.

was watching a bloke pull some wicked whips, ultra flat tabletops and tyre grabs at some cheeky jump lines in the Forest of dean on cotic Solaris 29er

it's all about the rider not the bike

Ive ridden a few 29ers....they are no where near as nice for jumping....not even close tazzy. They give up so much of the fun in return for stability.

Plus isnt the solaris a hardtail? Try adding 140mm of travel, sail like wheels and slower acceleration to jump handling....it really isnt as fun.

No wheel size is better they are just more suited for different preferences and uses.

looks like the champery podium is going to be filled with clown bikes from now on then 🙄

The haters will work out they're faster soon enough I'm sure.

Faster at some things, slower at others.

But hey, enjoy your Kool-Aid.

B45er if your not being sarky there wont be imo....champery is to steep and techy in a way that increased roll over wont make up for...it requires a more chuckable bike...have you felt how little room there is for body language on a 29er

have you felt how little room there is for body language on a 29er

Not for someone who is the proper size for one

still going?

If you want to convince the world that the bigger wheels is ammazingballs for everything eva then please go away quietly and prove it somewhere, then we wills till have a choice of what to buy as 1 mans amazing is anothers fad/crap.

we may all be stuck there old fogies with no idea of progress or we might mot care. By the time some of us buy a new bike 29 may be old hat and a new idea may have come along. If however you change bikes like pants then carry on buying the newest bestest thing just keep it to yourself ten when you are sooooooo much fastererer than us we will just thing u iz amazing like 😉

was watching a bloke pull some wicked whips, ultra flat tabletops and tyre grabs at some cheeky jump lines in the Forest of dean on cotic Solaris 29er

it's all about the rider not the bike

Yeah and I saw a video of someone doing trials stunts on a road bike. Doesn't make it the best tool for the job though does it.

Don't think you're going to see 29" wheels on dirt jump bikes and BMXes any time soon.

bwarrp the sarcasm was strong in mt post, i've ridden champery its a proper DH track not a fire road with 100 yards of rocks like that fontana joke.

29ers have to have a longer wheelbase, unless you want mad toe rub... as soon as things get tight and technical, you're bummed.

Once a 29er wins at Champery, Glencoe or a Slopestyle contest, then maybe I'll believe the hype, but in the meantime, I'll protest that the gullible amongst you are unwittingly pushing up the price of all bikes as they create a false panic and thus exclusivity to the different sizes, which justifies niche tax.

Ok read all these arguments loads of times but the thing I want to really know is why the water bottle?

probably to take a drink on the kilometer long fireroad drag some of which is actually uphill apparently, DH race my arse.

Love the wheelbase comments. I wonder how Spagnolo got that mile long Summum down for a podium at the Worlds at Champery...

This place is like a clueless cult. My Mum understands bike geometry better than half the people on here LOL!

Waterbottle gives more centralized mass on the bike, improving handling.

I daresay when compressed, the summum was no longer than a 24" cruiser 🙂 not to mention the improved life of shoes when not being rubbed to death by ferris wheels

To be fair I thought maybe it was to add a bit of weight to the centre of the bike. Just seems an odd thing on a dh race pedally or not. I don't know. I thought it was photoshopped at first. Don't really care what size wheels/bike anyone rides. Good fun watching this thread though.

Just seems an odd thing [s]on a dh race pedally or not[/s] to call it a DH race