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I changed from a 650b to a 29er last May , now the 650 was the long low and slack type (G160) with hope 35w wheels and maxxis DD tyres so not an xc rocket by no means but always seemed super efficient climbing and was more than happy chucking big days in the saddle i think it was close to 34lb too . Where as the SC Megatower is a carbon framed 32lb longer but with a steeper seat angel. Back story over but unless its being pointed down hill the thing just feels heavy, even a little cumbersome.
My question will i feel any difference in the real world loosing 200 grams off each wheel changing from Fortus 30s to Stans mk3s ? im not about to loose £1k on carbon wheels as in the peaks they wont last long or an i flogging a dead horse and need to face facts 29ers arnt playful
Odd - when i mullet my FlareMax , with a 35w 650b rim on the back it feels like I have throwm an anchor out ....
Are the Fortus 30s their heavy DH rims?
Definitely worth trying a lighter wheelset IMO. I have a couple of very perky, playful full-sus 29ers so it can be done.
Shock settings having an impact on your ride feel maybe?
Well i have a hightower with 29 wheels which comes in at 28.5 lbs in large. Its incredibly agile and playful so whilst your issue could be many things (Weight, set up, geo) , its certainly not the 29r wheels per se.
a steeper seat angel
Is Jesus your co-pilot or something?
Is this not a bit of a trait of the Megatower rather than 29ers? It's supposed to be a big bruiser of a bike and the reviews seem to suggest it doesn't come alive unless you're going very fast - maybe it's too much bike for you? To be honest, every review I've read of it gave the impression it was too much bike for almost everyone apart from an EWS racer.
I’ve noticed the same thing moving from a 160mm 650b enduro bike to a 170mm 29er enduro bike. It just doesn’t react as well to leg input. It Is definitely not all 29ers as my long low slack bird zero 29er HT feels spritely even with 35mm rims. The new FS has DH wheels so I’ve put it down to a combination of slightly heavier wheels and additional weight in the rubber plus maybe a more active suspension. You could try lighter wheels but if the weight saving is all in the hubs it’s not going to make a huge amount of difference as it’s not going to alter the rotational mass much.
Ultimately big travel 29ers are winch up, thrash it down bikes and not much else.
Can you stick a friend's wheels in to check quickly?
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Well i have a hightower with 29 wheels which comes in at 28.5 lbs in large. Its incredibly agile and playful so whilst your issue could be many things (Weight, set up, geo) , its certainly not the 29r wheels per se.
jeez thats light for a megatower, either incredibly bling'ed up or stupidly light weight tyres and components?!
jeez thats light for a megatower, either incredibly bling’ed up or stupidly light weight tyres and components?!
Its a hightower 🙂
the stock SE build from stif with DHR / DHF tyres. I've weighed it on two different sets of scales so pretty sure its correct.
Typo on the angle.
The thing about it I also ride a 27.5x3 hardtail which just seems far quicker up and on the flat. The shock tune is bob on for me (forgive the pun) The Fortus 30s are the DH rims and around 200 grams per rim over the Stans MK3s . One of the reasons along with the way it comes down (as seen in the Alps ) was the way the demo climbed i likened it at the time top a mountain goat, same shock forks and gearing just running the Carbon rims.
I wouldn't have thought to much bike to be fair Its seen a lot of the big stuff in the lakes and Peaks.
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jeez thats light for a megatower, either incredibly bling’ed up or stupidly light weight tyres and components?!Its a hightower 🙂
the stock SE build from stif with DHR / DHF tyres. I’ve weighed it on two different sets of scales so pretty sure its correct
sorry didnt read that properly, even still its light for a hightower as they are essentially the same frame
not to doubt you but ive not seen one under 30lbs yet, and they have been super pimp builds!
Just built up a gravel bike and ran it with 27.5 initially, not used smaller wheels for years. I definitely noticed a difference going up hill, they 'spin up' quickly as you say. I felt they needed more pedal input to keep going on the flat though. Swapped out for light alu 29" wheelset which suits me better - just keeps momentum and rolls better. But they do feel a bit slower on the hills.
I've 2 29ers, one feels sluggish at the moment (running Magic Marys both ends), one feels fast as (running RR/RR combo, with liteskin on the front). Not just off the mark either, the RR/RR is a fair chunk lighter but also much faster rolling, faster than anything I ever had 26er.
Having said that it sounds like you weren't running anyhting fast rolling on the 650B... I wouldn't fork out £1k of my own money to save 200g (or even 200g a wheel). I assume both are tubeless etc?
TL;DR - 29er rolls a bit better, 650 is a bit lighter. It's not going to mess the whole thing up either way. Also tyres weigh a lot and affect the ride hugely.
that said - losing nearly 1/2 lb on each wheel should make it feel a lot lighter
you'd drop the overall bike weight by 400g and rotational weight by 400g (I think)
Could just be tyres. Swapping the stock 2.4 Onza Ibexs on my Jeffsy for 2.35 NNs made it a completely different bike.
that said – losing nearly 1/2 lb on each wheel should make it feel a lot lighter
you’d drop the overall bike weight by 400g and rotational weight by 400g (I think)
This is true, but it makes your wallet a *lot* lighter if you do it by spending £1k on carbon wheels. I'd want to at least know there was nothing I could do about tyres first.
And FWIW I occasionally run procore, which adds 200g/tyre, and it's not particularly noticeable. (just a massive hassle to fit on my relatively narrow rims, pretty pricey, and not usually necessary where the RR/RR combo is sensible, or I'd probably run it all the time on both bikes.)
AH hold on, yer not thinking of dropping a grand, might be worth it but really I'd look at tyres first.
I was running a Magic Mary front and Aggressor DD rear on the G160 and on the MT im running DHF DHR DD front and back , not the lightest tyres but god hates a 5 mile walk after a slate slice in the Lakes. Im going to flip the rear dropout tonight and shorten the chainstay to 435 from 445 and see if that has any helping too
tires maketh the bike tbh.
fit lightweight fast rubber and itll fly up.
fit heavy dh rubbber and itll fly down.
take your pick.
Having a quick google, those Hope wheels weigh ~2.5kg. No wonder it feels sluggish, that sounds hideous, especially with DD casing tyres.
When there are 1.8kg wheelsets which are plenty strong enough, I would suggest that should be your first port of call 🙂
those hope rims are heavy as.
if you're hard on rims i'd suggest switching to DT EX511s. If you're not, try their XM481. 511's are 150g lighter than Fortus, 481's 195g. per rim. that will make the bike feel way better. get some sort of rim protection in the rear if that bothers you.
fwiw im just switching from a 650b 170mm bike to a 145/160mm 29er. More rider input needed on the 29er i'd say, but whether that's cos its a 29er or something else i couldn't say. as well as changing wheelsize i'm going from air to coil, different tyres, geometry etc so impossible to know.
Just to add, I do think there's some merit in having different wheelsets for different uses - and it can really change the character.
I have light trail wheels, trail/enduro wheels and am expecting delivery of a set of enduro/DH wheels today - the Superstar V6 hubs with the new Stan's Flow EX3 rims (which are fairly heavy).
Ordered those on the 50% off deal because my 170mm 29er sometimes feels too light. And because I want a wheelset for uplift and ploughing down rocky trails.
When I had my Hightower, I bought some Conti DH casing tyres by mistake. It made it ride like a lump of iron uphill and anything flat! I'd say with the heavy wheels, that'll not be helping.
It's nothing to do with wheel size (at least not directly) as XC racers use 29ers; I have two that are lightnening quick and nimble handling.
Sounds more like its down to your tyres and wheels, or maybe the steep SA which can make it a chore to ride on the flat, so I'm told.
Just to add, I do think there’s some merit in having different wheelsets for different uses – and it can really change the character.
Do this, just chuck whichever wheels and tyres you want for the day's ride. Saves swapping tyres over and 2.5kg is a bit of a biffer of a wheel.
I cant see what wheels your megatower is riding, people mention hope rims but your post read like those are on the old bike.
I'd also ask how are you running your shock? I had issues in my first 29er with a bottom of the range shock that I could run either too hard for good pedalling but awful small bump or too soft to get good small bump but awful pedalling feel!
Few other things to consider like groupsets too, if you had X01 before and GX now the cassette is bit heavier. How long a stem are running or what height bars, would amending those to pull your body weight forward help?
I had a 2.5” Maxxis DHF on the front of my 29er and a 2.8” soft Magic Mary on my 27+ wheels
The Maxxis nearly always makes me want to give up 29ers on steep climbs, as it’s SO much harder than on the 27.5+
Have just swapped to a 2.35 Magic Mary on the 29er wheels and I can once again see why 29 is the XC wheelsize of choice
The stem and bars are the same as they were transferred from the G160 again personal preference. Just looking again at the seat angle and again i can flip that to a bit slacker. Size wise the bike is comfy roomy in the cockpit and as i said down hill brilliant. I will try a set of lighter tyres first
I'm no world beater but if what Hob Nob says is right, I'd be looking at new wheels. And lighter tyres, definitely on the front. I run Exo casing, front and rear (with a Rimpact rear) around the Peak with plenty of Lakes trips no issues since fitting the Rimpact to stop pinch flats.
I'd put it down as a maybe.
Some suspension designs/tunes just feel stable (aka heavy). Back in the distant past I demo'd a Spesh Enduro and a giant Reign-x, the spesh felt super stable going downhill (which felt brilliant) and I thought could live with the heavy feeling uphill. Turns out I didn't get on with it long term and spent the whole ownership regretting it.
And that was despite the reign having more travel, a coil shock and the demo bike tuned for someone much lighter.
29ers are heavier, which affects unsprung mass and overall weight. But the acceleration thing is partially an urban myth, for any given speed they rotate slower, so the "rotational weight counts twice" isn't true to the same extent.
Compared to how it felt to ride in November, my Wazoo fatbike now rides like a brick covered in treacle.
700*28mm GP 4 Seasons on fatnotfat 29er wheels (~3.1Kg)
700*38mm Gravdal up front and 26*4 Jumbo Jim rear (~5.5Kg)
Looks like the fatnotfat rear freehub has had it (horrid grinding while freewheeling, sometimes won't engage pawls when pedalling) and it looks like I've well and truly missed the boat on spares at PX, so only viable option would be to pay for my spare fat wheel to be dismantled and then rebuilt with the Reet'ard rim.
Or chance buying a Vee Fatty Slick.
Fortus 30 are obscenely heavy, they're a full on DH wheel - 2435g, so no surprise it feels sluggish.
A set of Hunt Trailwide at the same width is 1823g - more than 500g lighter.
I have 2 sets of wheels for my 29er. Hunt enduro with Schwalbe super gravity tyres for up lifts and some light bicycle carbon for when I’m going for a ride. the difference in weight of the must be close to a kilo and it is very noticeable when climbing.
there is also a big difference in feel between the 2 sets riding downhill at speed. The heavier setup takes a lot more effort to change direction or make corrections to the steering, but is very stable. It feels as if the weight is sucking the bike to the ground.
light wheels make the bike quicker and more agile. The heavy ones make it stable and sturdy.
edit: what I was getting at was try some lighter wheels. Hunt trail wheels are inexpensive and have a good reputation and are as light as many carbon sets. If you’re feeling flush get some dt xm or ex rims built with cxray spokes to your hub of choice.
My 30mm wide 29er trail wheels are 1535g. Almost 2lbs lighter than yours. That will make a HUGE difference to how it feels to ride. My 50mm internal 29+ wheels are only 1840g and coupled with the big tyres, it's a proper workout for your legs. Rolling weight does make a difference.
The annoying this is I looked at the Hunts before the Fortus .. looks like a call Monday then
Do read up on the Hunts.
They get generally good reviews but real-life people I know who own them have made them fall apart. Albeit with good backup from Hunt.
I suppose it's the old light, cheap, strong - pick two.
I’d echo wheels/tyres.
I was a DD convert, but tried the new EXO+ and haven’t noticed much difference in durability at all. But have noticed the lighter weight massively. I use a rimpact strip with them too.
So, I’d suggest exo or exo+ tyres with a light rim strip. I’m a massive fan of rimpact for cost/weight/durability. 👍
Tyres are so dependent on rider style & weight though.
I need a Supergravity carcass on the rear, ideally with a Rimpact too.
Exo or Snakeskin fine on front though.
Tried Exo on rear a couple of months ago as some of my mates who ride the same trails as me swore they were fine for them, dinged my rim first ride out and it's still struggling to hold air.
My fault, but I should have known better.
I suspect the OP knows he needs that DD on the rear, but perhaps change the front to an Exo?
Agree on the fact it can depend on a number of factors. Even summer/winter riding for me too as my speeds are slower during winter.
However, I was a serial rim-dinger with anything but DD (on the rear) and convinced I needed it too.
Turns out I’ve lost rotational weight, gained sidewalk compliance/feel and added rim protection. Happily run the pressures I want to run too. Without worrying.
Ps. EXO big difference in durability to EXO+ for VERY little weight difference.
Won't it just be that your 29er is a gert big blaster of a bike? I remember when Orange brought out the Stage 6 they warned that it wouldn't be for everyone due to it's world flattening capabilities. Isn't your bike one of that breed?