Up until recently I'd only ridden 26" bikes. Having recently tried 27.5" and 29 I wanted to jot down some things and ask for any thoughts on which to go for on a trail bike. The argument might have been done to death but it also might be interesting to hear an uncorrupted amateur 26er rider's perspective (with a sprinkling of confirmation bias).
27.5 just looked a bit bigger than 26, didn't feel much different. It might be my lack of sensitivity to a +1.5" vs. combined +3" difference from the 26 baseline, but the 27.5 to 29er gap was much more noticeable.
Start with the pros. Definitely carries momentum and rolls over things better, didn't slow down as much or need as much pedaling on rocky parts or dips going both up and down. I found myself not threading it about smaller stuff as much for the smoothest line. Downhill it felt noticeably faster, had a few moments coming in to things faster than expected, and the brakes felt lacking on fast descents. Faster might be a slight con though as when a crash happens it's going to be worse. Very confidence inspiring and stable, and compensating for my skills, perhaps not just down to the wheel size. Fun, but might just the novelty, I know you become desensitized to speed. I didn't notice any grip/traction benefit, it was dry enough and I'm probably not fast enough.
Then the cons. Less manoeuvrable to get round tight switchback climbs, needed more planning ahead for positioning and obstacles (hard to believe around 3cm more wheelbase makes a difference). Harder to lift the frontend to get over steps and for wheelies/manuals, wheel/tyre would be slightly heavier but maybe more to blame on 1cm longer chainstays (440mm). It needed more effort to force around especially at speed, prefers to continue its own way in the current direction, a bit difficult to make quick unplanned movements or correct mistakes which was a bit scary once or twice. Steeper climbs could've done with a 30T chainring to compensate for the larger wheel circumference. Harder to make short punchy accelerations as a run-up to then get over obstacles while keeping the pedals level, might be that gearing combined with the rotational mass. Never felt a need to get much far back over the saddle due to how stable it was (should've tried), so no issue with getting buzzed by the rear wheel. The trails I rode weren't mellow so can't comment on whether it irons out tamer trails and makes them less fun.
The 27.5 will feel like a 26 inch. You will get on the 29er and think ‘Jesus this is quick’.
@andykirk was spot on.
So I liked it, and I could get used to some of the cons and work on my skills. But it felt a bit like I couldn't handle it at times, that I couldn't make it do things or be its boss all the time. Maybe some of that was because I was going faster. At 5'7" and slender I'm near the bottom of ranges people give for 29er suitability.
That's my monologue done. Any recommendations, or anyone have similar feelings, or made the same choice and how did it turn out?
I have always ridden 26" and still do. I've got a 100mm XC bike and a 160mm trail bike, both 26" and never have I felt underbiked or overbiked or left behind when out with others.
My wife has a 27.5" hardtail which I occasionally use with the WeeRide to take our youngest out. My mate has a lot of 29" bikes that I always steal a ride on when I'm visiting.
I enjoy them all equally. If I was buying a new bike I'd go 29" every day of the week, but only because that's where the options are nowadays. I just can't see Joe Bimble of Everytown ever coming close to the limits of one wheel size where ±1.5" on the diameter is going to make the difference between a great ride and a shit one.
I'll be honest, I went 29 because my 26er was near death and I was pissed off at the whole 650b fiasco- I figured if I was going to replace all my stuff, I wanted to be able to actually see the difference at least.
But what really convinced me I'd done the right thing was a run down prospacker at innerleithen, starting from the top of the minch (probably for a race). I've ridden prospacker tons, and I never felt like "this is easier" or "whoa this is miles faster" or anything on the 29er- I just realised I was still riding hard and well, when usually by the bottom I'd be basically hanging on and surviving. I never rode a single root or rock and thought "that felt smoother" and I never rode a steep and felt "this geometry feels entire degrees better" but put it all together and it let me ride like I want to, for longer. Safer too, of course.
To be fair, a 26er with more modern geometry would have given some of the same. But at that point, I didn't have anything working like I wanted- the forks were worse than my 26er ones, the wheels were OE and heavy, the tyres were a bit crap.
I’ve test ridden a few 29ers and always been faster on them then my 650b bikes. So far I’ve had less fun on them though - they feel less manoeuvrable and poppy fun. However, maybe I’ve just not ridden the right one yet.
A lot of industry resource is going into 29ers and most trail bike tests these days are either solely 29er or the occasional 650b option. I’d just try demoing a few more bikes and seeing which you have the most fun on.
Geometry and suspension feel are probably more important than just wheel size.
I’ve test ridden a few 29ers and always been faster on them then my 650b bikes. So far I’ve had less fun on them though – they feel less manoeuvrable and poppy fun.
Exactly my feeling. 29" is definitely faster but the wheels just feel too big and I prefer 26 or 650b.
Also worth noting it is not an equal 1.5 between 26, 650b and 29 which may explain why 650b feels more like 26
Out in the hills rider but I do like a few twisty bits and trail centre chucked in. I'll take 29r every day and twice on Sunday.
Those big wheels just roll and carry momentum better.
I've never been on a ride that would have been ruined by smaller wheels though (although gravel bashing in the New Forest on my 456 last weekend was very close).
I have a 27.5 anthem and a 29.
Going from 29 to 27.5 I can feel that the steering is quicker. Going from 27.5 to 29 I don’t notice any difference at all.
I prefer which ever one I’m riding!
edit 29 just edges it ,I think!
The handling and ride of some 29ers can feel very close to a good 27.5 bike.
Shorter offset forks, slack head angles paired with super short 32mm length stems, and short chainstays (425mm on my HT) all combine to make a very nimble bike.
My Banshee Paradox V3 is amazingly manoeuvrable compared to some of the 29er barges I’ve tried.
It’s worth noting that lots of 29ers will still work just as well with 27.5 wheels. And now some of the 27.5 wheeled bikes will also fit 29er wheels. The geo and bb height of one company’s 29 can be almost identical to another company’s 27.5. Its the geo that’s important not the wheel size badge a company labels their bike with.
Threads like this just convince me that 27.5" was a pointless con.
Threads like these convince me that the whole wheel size change was a pointless con.
C'mon, keep up, it's 29 front & 27.5 rear these days.
27.5 was always a pointless con, perpetrated by the large bike companies that didn't pick up on the shift to 29" wheels (and had spent several years doing them down). They realised the public were shifting perceptions towards 29ers, which required whole new bikes to be bought. So by going 27.5 they could force people into buying whole bikes (rather than upgrade) but with minimal tooling/geometry changes.
Basically it was an industry push for enforced obsolescence, along with all the axle changes along the way, to drive the market for whole bikes.
(says the 26" riding 9 speed luddite).
Also worth noting it is not an equal 1.5 between 26, 650b and 29 which may explain why 650b feels more like 26
Thats what I was going to say - its actually 26.5, 27.5 and 29 by diameter on a 2.3-ish tyre.
In an ideal world, one of each or hopefully mullet bikes will become more available, I love the playful feel of a 27.5 on technical trails and jumps, I feel more skilful on a 27.5 but 29 has its place on longer flowing rides and a bit of racing, rear tyre buzz is definitely a thing unless you're lanky.
My ebike had a mullet setup and I love it. Best of both worlds IMHO.
Downhill it felt noticeably faster,
Chinny reckon. 😉
Unless you rode the exact same bike on the exact same trail with the same tyres but just changed the wheels to different sizes, then your findings will not be that meaningful really.
Still, don't let that spoil a good wheel size debate. Crack on 👍
I have a 27.5 Giant Anthem, upgraded a few years back from an old 26" Specialized Camber. There was some overlap of ownership before I sold the 26er and I rode both bikes at that time. I couldn't tell any difference in terms of speed / acceleration / rollover. I would agree with others that the push for 27.5 was grounded more in marketing than an actual need for a new wheelsize.
For the riding that I do (closer to the XC side of the XC / Trail scale, but still need to be able to ride technical trails) 29ers are a better fit and when it comes time to upgrade, I'll be looking at that option. That's not to say that I don't love my current bike, but at the time the geometry / components I wanted came on the 27.5 model.
It’s worth noting that lots of 29ers will still work just as well with 27.5 wheels
Sounds like pedal strike hell unless you are talking 27.5 plus although that still lowers the height of the BB .
Bikes all have different BB heights. I'm just pointing out that its the numbers that matter not the label 🙂
Pace's RC627 is a 27.5 frame but the BB drop is 63.5mm with an unsagged 140mm fork
Cotic's Solaris Max is a 29er frame but the BBdrop with 25% sag is only 55.5mm with a 140mm fork. So possibly less tha 50mm bb drop static?
I'm sort of in the same position but an inch shorter. I have to confess I prefer a bit of speed over tech but not exclusively so had a 29er on order but canceled just as the shit was away to hit the fan with the pandemic as I'd not long started a new job and it wasn't looking good in the industry I work in. AM9 frames are all sold out now but with my job looking safer now when they come back into stock I might get back to ordering one again.
When I was riding a 26" bike I swore I'd never have a 29 as having ridden a mates one it was less manoeuvrable and just felt a bit sluggish.
Then my frame broke. The manufacturer was fab and even though it was well out of warranty they gave me credit against a bike of my choice, so off I went to my LBS wanting a 27.5" bike. LBS told me I was an idiot and they'd eat their hat if I didn't love the new 29" version of the bike I already had as geometry had come a long way since my mates bike was built.
I trust my LBS and took their advice. They were right.
I’ve got a 29 Whyte S150 & a 27.5 Orange Alpine 160. Over virtually any whether very tech or dull trails & road ride I’m within seconds on either bike. Literally no real world difference. I’m very definitely the limiting factor, not the bike or wheel size.
I’ve test ridden a few 29ers and always been faster on them then my 650b bikes. So far I’ve had less fun on them though – they feel less manoeuvrable and poppy fun.
This. If I was buying again I'd chop my 29" in for a 27.5.
Never went 650 as wasnt around when 29 came out. I always rode 26 , way into the 'new fangled' wheel size , but in the end gave in. My 26 is ridden still to work 5 days a week. So, the 29 er. It seemed huge in the beginning and as above from the OP, felt awkward in the twisties and cumbersome. Still, at the time having a C456 , meant I could ride the 'bmx' and laugh a lot at its nimbleness. But , if I needed to do distance bike rides, the 29er was the bike. It would roll so much better, more comfort ( even on narrower tyres than 456) . Grip is something you cant comment on really. But I do enjoy the 29er and dont have the 456 now. But for Bike Parks, I still have my Jekyll 26er and will be using this , as bigger tyres and smaller wheels are more nimble. If it dies, then yes, I will obviously change it, not sure with what , but it can stay quite happily in the stable for now.
On open moor grass the shallower angle of rotation the faster and smoother the bike. Over a decade ago midwales bike staff had virtually all switched to 29er as they were simply much faster and more capable on soft terrain. It wasn't what they were selling though. So away from built trail centres on grassy little used trails it's 29er. Depends what sort of terrain you ride on. An acquaintance just bought a full sus specialised 29er to ride in his local woods. He's not so sure about it, seemingly preferring his brother's 27 spesh hardtail.
I never liked 27.5 as it seemed like a cynical ploy to get people to buy new bikes that weren't actually any different to their old bikes, so I've never bought one. I see the industry seems to be quietly dropping them now too, or at least producing fewer. I guess 29 just works better for most people most of the time. I'm not saying that 27.5 is bad or will die out, but it definitely seems to be the less popular size at the moment
To some extent 27 came about due to the problems getting 29 to work in full sus mode, and in smaller hardtail sizes. I feel 27 is valid, just slightly more niche. It certainly makes sense for a lot of women.
26 to 29 early-ish adopter and just liked how it rode over the 26, been like that for years and got a 27.5 to try - disliked it now it is a mullet and it is far more enjoyable than I expected.
I still miss my 27.5+.... it was just fun! Now on a 29er again and find it harder to lift the front wheel but easier to maintain speed. I'd go back to 27.5+ in a heartbeat
I have both 29er bikes and 26. Both are fun and I still enjoy riding both.
Think the 29ers with modern geo are great fun - some of the early stuff was a bit boat like but when it comes to switchbacks I know its me and not the bike!
I jumped from a 10 year old 26 mtb to a nearly modern 29 er. Its just better. I've now done 500 miles on it now. It felt a bit long in one corner. Every where elese its better. Its eager to turn and has better low speed handling. Now wheel size isn't the only variable here but glad i bought a 29er. Oh im over 6 foot
As noted in a recent 'I'm new to mountain biking' thread, you have to get used to the idea that modern mountain bikers think that mountain biking is second only to F1 in its complexity.
The vast majority of comments one way or another are confirmation bias and fashion rather than science, and I suspect the 'faster on this wheel size' comments are much more about perception than accurate testing.
We all go quicker on new bikes, probably in a direct relationship to the cost...
I went from a 26" bike to a 27.5" bike because there weren't any other bikes available at the time, and it's ok.
To some extent 27 came about due to the problems getting 29 to work in full sus mode, and in smaller hardtail sizes. I feel 27 is valid, just slightly more niche. It certainly makes sense for a lot of women.
True but the thing is 27.5 doesn't offer anything 26 doesn'. Not everything works for everyone as a 29er true and that's fine but 26" would have been just a valid choice for the industry to take for these case except it didn't force obsolescence on thousands of bikes.
There’s no doubt that for certain riders 29ers don’t work so well. But in normal (non-slopestyle) MTBing I’ve never come across anyone having an issue with 27.5 being unwieldy. And bigger wheels roll and grip better. So I’d suggest that 26” was the wrong tyre size to start with! Between 27.5 and 29 you have all adult MTB needs bar extreme tricks covered.
So my two main bikes are both full suspension, one a 100mm travel 29er and the other a 130mm travel 27.5+. The former is for muddy and rooty rides the latter for rocky mountain outings. They're both good, much better than 26 inch wheeled bikes.
Great to hear this stuff, cheers. There's no question of whether the 26 is getting replaced (I might not have been too clear); the question is with what. I should judge individual bikes rather than try to stereotype or eliminate options based on wheel size or +/-10mm of travel. I'd already decided that if I can't try it I won't buy it.
rear tyre buzz is definitely a thing
Will remember to check that .
I recently bought a Vitus Mythique, available in both 27.5" and 29". I went for the 27.5" and instantly questioned had I done the right thing. I am about 5'8" and was nervous about going 29", and I also have 27.5" ebike.
The 27.5" Mythique arrived and it is absolutely great for me and the type of riding I do.
I have bikes in all three sizes. They are all ace.
The 29er is the one I prefer at the moment. Now that I have built some bomb proof wheels for it 🙂
cloggy
Free MemberTo some extent 27 came about due to the problems getting 29 to work in full sus mode
Don't buy it tbh. Some companies struggled to get to grips with 29ers but it was never a restriction of full suss. There were excellent long travel full suss 29ers about in 2014 from mainstream brands, after all.
I think what really caused problems was that some companies were obsessed with trying to make 29ers ride like and package like 26ers, which just completely missed the point- why change wheel size then spend all the effort trying to reduce the change? So inevitably those same companies embraced 650b, because it was exactly what they were trying to make with 29ers- a marketable change so they could sell a bunch of New Exciting Bikes, without very much actual change so they didn't have to do as much thinking, and could basically sell 2013's bikes in 2016 again.
Meanwhile better designers just made 29ers that rode like 29ers, and were awesome, and ultimately seem to have won the argument.
greeny30
Free Memberrear tyre buzz is definitely a thing
I'd never really encountered it- I remember doing it once when ****ing up a drop. Then I went to the mega and spent the whole glacier section basically having my rear tyre try to carve me a second butt crack 🙂 Only time I've ever wanted a smaller wheel.
They’re both good, much better than 26 inch wheeled bikes
They are newer the same geo changes could have been done with 26as the 27.5.
There’s no doubt that for certain riders 29ers don’t work so well. But in normal (non-slopestyle) MTBing I’ve never come across anyone having an issue with 27.5 being unwieldy. And bigger wheels roll and grip better. So I’d suggest that 26” was the wrong tyre size to start with! Between 27.5 and 29 you have all adult MTB needs bar extreme tricks covered
The point is 26 and 27.5 are so close its the modern geometry that's the difference. There could have been the same changes that were done for 27.5 done to modernise 26. This 26 Vs 27.5 is not really significant, other than forcing a industry change.