[Closed] 2017/2018 cx racing thread

In hindsight, eldest son's tubeless Schwalbe bites seem like a better solution

At the start of this season I was lusting over tubular wheels given the general consensus that they are grippier, better rolling, lighter and more reliable than tubeless. However I've seen so many rolled or punctured tubs so far this season I'm beginning to think the advantages might be overplayed! At least if I keep believing that it will save me £500 next year! I do tend to wince every time I hear/feel a rim clatter on root or rock but I guess tats the same whatever ou're riding

I had a pair of Challenge Limus tubs that I won in a raffle, contemplated building a set of wheels to suit, the thought about repairing them and promptly sold them on here.

I'm not good enough to warrant tubs anyway, although I do like how they look 8) especially on 38/50mm carbon rims.

Been running tubeless for 3 seasons now (although yet to race this year due to injury, but I will be this weekend) and only burped a tyre once.

Interesting to read people just taping tyres, I'm new to tubs (as MC suggests I've just spent this week gluing my first) but I spent all last week reading up on it and the consensus seemed to be tape-alone can't deal with the shear forces that CX tyres create (off cambers etc) compared to road? Heard of the 'Belgian' method (tape+glue) but can't figure out what the tape is bringing to the party, as you're just introducing something that stops the glue bonding the tyre direct to the rim? Also read of a few tape failures with Tufo, ascribed to it being made of multiple layers, and it basically delaminates?

I picked up a used but spanking pair of LB deep carbon rims on Hope hubs fitted with FMB Supermuds for £250 last year so not a huge outlay for Velcro-like grip. If my re-gluing fails and I DNF with a rolled tub I'm sure MC will post it on here....

I don't see the benefits of tubs in hard/dry conditions where you're running higher pressures to avoid sidewall collapse and pinchflats, seems like you're increasing the risk of rolling it off (higher cornering speeds = more shear forces) without the grip benefits that low pressures provide. MC has got interested enough in the geek element that she's just bulk bought some Challenge latex tubes her clinchers 😉

As far as I understand it, glue and tape originated back when we were using 26-28mm tubs on 18mm wide rims with a very deep U-section to them. That resulted in only the very edge of the base tape actually contacting the rim, so strips of tape were glued in to fill the 'U'. I only ever use glue, personally
I've always thought the same as you, it's just another matrix to fail, particularly if the two glues are incompatible. With the more modern, flatter rims it's a non-issue. Even Reflexes are pretty flat if you compare to something like an old Mach 2.

Tubs are just as much use on hard and dry conditions as that's the point, you [i]don't[/i] use high pressures but still run them fairly low in order to absorb the bumps.

Ferrals I spoke to Cyclopaedia in Cardiff (presuming you know them from Welsh league) and they seemed to think that if you aren't a heavy person or a heavy rider (i.e. who crashes into things) then the best investment is latex tubes instead and you only lose something like 2watts from not running tubs. Im like you keep thinking about it but I'm earning less now. I weight maybe 59kg but am a light rider and so far touch wood in 3 seasons of coming back to CX never had a puncture. So that's what I'm going to try.. I'm sure crashtestmonkey will post on here if it all goes wrong tomorrow 😉

Well I went and entered my first race of the season, first time I've ridden at any kind of effort level since the 3 Peaks & the crash where I had a grade 2 ACJ separation, got the wife to strap my shoulder up just in case and proceeded to bimble round the NWCCA course at Bebbington Oval in V40.

It was rather muddy to say the least, I was rather cuffed that I managed to stay up right and only get lapped by the top 6 riders to come home 67th out of 94 starters. I guess it's only on wards and upwards as I use the CX racing to regain fitness.

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Mini-me No.1 continued showing me up by racing his way to 11th in the U8's from 30 odd starters and looking more like breaking into the top 10 every week. This was his 3rd 11th place finish out of 4 races, bloody brilliant in my book considering he was only 5 in April and is in year 1 at school, so he's racing all the boys & girls in years 2, 3 & 4.

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Phew, great race at SCX Round 3 at Fife College in Dunfermline on Sunday.

I went in just looking to improve slightly on my (disappointing) placing in Round 1, and also to try and sneakily target Legend if he was racing! 😉

Course seemed a little flatter than Round 1, but some really tricky muddy sections, one particularly long, flat and deep muddy bit which basically had to be ran, cue what felt like a mini asthma attack on the third lap!

Felt like I was riding much better this time, and was actually able to race, spent lots of time taking inside lines and using the one hurdle of the race as a sneaky overtaking opportunity, turned out it was quicker to keep running after the hurdle until the next corner, then remounting. Took a couple of places that way 😀

Seems there's a big psychological element with the overtakes, I know in the first round I wouldn't bother chasing someone who had passed me, assuming they were just fitter/faster and it wouldn't be worth the effort. Yesterday's race saw me struggle to pass a few guys who then just didn't seem to bother chasing when they could probably have easily re-passed, suited me fine!

So, from 61st in round 1 to 39th in round 3, unfortunately I think the biggest room for improvement is my running, not sure I'm committed enough to work on that, might just continue with 4 minute on and off intervals on the commute.

My first cross race of the season ended in disaster...in fact it didn't even start! I couldn't race the first race last weekend of the series because of family commitments so I was pretty motivated to start the second race which is a local race and a proper hard course (plus I finished third last year at its inaugural event). It's a night race under floodlight and there was a practice session on Friday evening so I went over to try out my new wheel set. Enve tub rims with DT Swiss hubs. Went for a quick bimble around the lap to get an idea and the rear tyre rolled off the rim! Crap! Took the wheel into the LBS on Saturday morining and they decided to glue it( was taped before). They reckoned it would be fine for the eve race. Anyway we were allowed 10 min before the start to ride the course and guess what the tyre came off again. As I had ridden there from home I didn't have a spare wheel with me so that was that!! 🙁

steve_b77 - Member

Well I went and entered my first race of the season, first time I've ridden at any kind of effort level since the 3 Peaks & the crash where I had a grade 2 ACJ separation, got the wife to strap my shoulder up just in case and proceeded to bimble round the NWCCA course at Bebbington Oval in V40.

It was rather muddy to say the least, I was rather cuffed that I managed to stay up right and only get lapped by the top 6 riders to come home 67th out of 94 starters. I guess it's only on wards and upwards as I use the CX racing to regain fitness.

Bad luck with the wheel rotor stern. When was your race? Usually hear 48 hr as optimum time to wait after glueing, 24 hr at the mimimum [unlike a lot of hearsay around tub glueing, it's a fact that the final bond takes time to strengthen]. So if it was Sat evening the shop is not being serious with you. Sun evening you'd have expected it to be OK, maybe if the tape didn't come off clean it can cause issues with the rim /tyre for a re-glue.

It's interesting seeing a lot of the issues people on CX bikes are having that I've dodged so far on my adapted MTB

Mud and clogging: what is it that actually clogs? Is this restricted to 2x set ups or do people running 1x get it too? I'm on 1x11 on the MTB, the chainset was caked and had a conical 'dish' of mud on the inside where it had been scraped off against the chainstay, but everything was still turning

Derailleurs: Lots of these getting ripped off by mud. Mine is an SRAM GX, it was full of twigs, mud and leaves but was still turning (and usually I'm the first to slate SRAM stuff). All I've done is replace the jockey wheel bearings with new, better sealed units. Are the people ripping off mechs just more powerful than me? (I'm sitting and spinning 90% of the time)

Tyres: Even guys (like me) with tubes were apparently running pressures like 25psi. I didn't have the nerve to go below 40psi, and even then I bottomed out both rims when I attempted an on-the-move mud shedding bunny hop. Are the guys running crazy low pressures just a lot lighter than me (84kg) and do they ever lean over on corners? 😕 Still wondering what the low pressures are actually for, grip on loose surfaces doesn't seem relevant to Scottish CX races, but somebody said it allows the tyre to flatten out more and sink into the mud less?

Anyway, hope I haven't jinxed myself with mechanicals for the next race...

Mud and clogging: what is it that actually clogs? Is this restricted to 2x set ups or do people running 1x get it too? I'm on 1x11 on the MTB, the chainset was caked and had a conical 'dish' of mud on the inside where it had been scraped off against the chainstay, but everything was still turning

It's generally tyres in frames and forks, when the mud is mixed with grass and leaves it forms a lovely clogging compound.

My XT clutch mech is fine as the clutch stops it being dragged upwards towards the chainstay.

Makes sense, running a 35mm tyre in a frame designed for 2.4" probably gives me clearance to spare.

Must say I'm tempted by the CX bikes though, assuming I could save 1-2kg over the MTB (possibly optimistic, it's not that heavy...). Couldn't justify it this season though.

Did occur to me as I was wheezing my way through the gloop on one of the portage sections, if there was any strategic sense in just stopping, getting my breath back, but using the time to clear mud from the frame. Sure it would waste 30 seconds but I'd recover AND have a lighter bike for the rest of the lap 8)

Agree it's normally mud/grass/leaves in the frame and forks slowing wheels down which is most annoying. I find you can reach down and clear forks while riding. I sometimes try and pull mud out of rear triangle while running with bike on shoulder but it doesn't often work.
If it's a real mud fest and you only have one bike then the key if possible is to keep the tyres as clean as you can through line choice. If I'm not in a group and the opportunity arises I quite often ride through longer grass off the racing line to try and scrub mud off.

Front mechs can get clogged but you can reach down and clean while riding and they aren't really a race ender, just become brutally hard. Rear mechs are the issue.

Newtown in the Welsh league for me last Sunday. First time I'd been up there and loved the course. Not a fantastic race for me, didn't warm up because child was having a meltdown so had an awful start; then expended a fair bit of energy getting through people in the first half lap. I ended up racing with someone who used to post on here and who is becoming a bit of a weekly adversary until I managed to knock a b.o.a fastener going over a hurdle and lost a shoe. By the time I'd sorted that I was properly in no mans land and the only excitement was trying to cling onto the wheel of the leaders as they lapped me (was actually quite pleased to stick on the leaders wheel for half a lap and then to second place for a bit longer 😆 ). Such a good course though and the perfect mud level, enough to make it fun but not enough to kill bikes, ended up grabbing pit bike with two to go but didn't really need too. Really enjoyed myself, especially one offcamber climb which was a sheer joy when you got the line right.

Abergavenny next sat, can only take one bike as staying up for w/e but its forecast dry all week so should be ok without spare from a mud perspective. Day before the national trophy so plenty of fast people racing in the league race. Be interesting to see how many times Tom Pidcock laps us... assuming they don't apply the 80% rule to the league race. Decided against entering the national trophy as my fitness isn't at a level where I wouldn't completely embarrass myself so looking forward to watching some of that on the Sunday.

@Steve-b good going after your injury, nice pic too, that looks like fun sloppy mud 😆 Well done to your boy as well, cracking effort given age range!

@Garry Lager.. The tyres were glued in the morning and the race was at 9pm the same evening last Saturday. The mechanic used carbon glue which is supposed to set really quickly but not quickly enough it would seem. Got my mud fix the next day though as I raced the next race of the series on my old wheel set with Limus Tubs (which were glued on about 4 weeks ago). Boy they are a revelation in the mud, not the usual slipping about in the corners.

Carbon glue is useless for CX tubs, your mechanic is a muppet! Even if that had been long enough for it to go off properly you'd have rolled it a race or two later anyway...

Yep, stay away from carbon glue! Tubs are worth persevering with IMO, not just for muddy days. It can take a while to get used to the squirm in the low 20s on a fast firm course but the comfort and grip is worth it.

Ardingly London League for me on Sunday and it seems I have finally found my CX legs. A shocking start where I unclipped, dropped a chain and nearly crashed meant I was down in the 40s but I managed to stay calm and got myself up to 2nd place with two laps to go. It was a draggy, muddy, surprisingly technical course and so it was all about riding at your own pace, choosing your lines and timing your efforts. Hopefully closing in on that win now.

Perhaps I used the incorrect terminologY. It was tubular glue for carbon rims.
This stuff to be precise. Or is this the stuff you think is wrong?[img] [/img]

Yes that's the stuff - it's terrible. It's meant for road tubs being used on carbon rims as it's been prepped to handle the higher temperatures generated by braking on carbon on really long descents.
It's no good for CX tubs which just see cold and wet. In fact I think everyone I know who's used it (or has admitted to it) has rolled a tub in short order and gone back to the usual stuff.

Ok good to know. Thanks for the advice. I’ll go into the lbs and give out a good bollocking then!, 🙂

Anyone going to Sparsholt on Sunday?

Sorry not sorry but which all-round tubed Clincher should I get?

Not got any racing rubber. Are racing Ralph's any good?

Looking to order asap 🙂

but which all-round tubed Clincher should I get?

I love the Clement PDX.

“all round”? Lucky bugger, I was about to ask the same question but for muds! (and tubeless)

Well it seems fairly dry at the moment or am I going to be shocked on Sunday ?? 😆

I just can't justify buying niche tyres anyway but will happily buy some race specific all rounders.

Same as XC, I've never raced anything other than Rons and just varied the pressure.

Probably a sensible outlook! I’ve only ridden with Challenge Limuses so far, so wondering what lies ahead with the WTB Cross Bosses!

Clement PDX are flipping brilliant as all round tyres, they are actually my mud tyres (clinchers) and I love them. highly recommended.

Thanks guys. It seems PDX may not be being made anymore?

I gave the LBS a second chance and a 10% discount on some baby Limus was enough to seal the deal

They are very very sexy 8)

Baby Linus v similar tread to pdx's. I also use pdx's as mud tyres, tbh they've been on most of the season this year.
If I remember what I saw on Facebook correctly the Clement brand name licence was up for renewal but the manufacturer didn't keep it, however all the tyres will still be made under a different brand (keeping the same actual tyre name)

Thanks guys. It seems PDX may not be being made anymore?

the Clement brand name licence was up for renewal but the manufacturer didn't keep it

IIRC Clement is being rebranded as Donnelly, as the name Clement was licensed from Pirelli and now they've got back into bike tyres they want their IP back. As Ferrals says, they're very similar to Baby Limus and work all year around.

Ref MC's experiment with latex tubes (proper Challenge CX specific) we had 3 fail before we'd even raced so that's 50 quid and MC's warm-up pissed away 🙄 I ran my tubs way too low for the drier-than-expected ground, (18-19psi as I was expecting a mudbath) and they folded on every corner so I lost loads of time and a few places trying to nurse the front, but at least my first glue-job held up, so there's that. I also didn't learn my lesson of the previous similarly hilly round and optimistically left my 38T ring on, whereas last year I fitted a 36T front for hilly courses. I'm usually a spinner and totally burned my legs out on the climbs so then had nothing left on the straights. Still bagged a top 10 finish which is what I was fighting for last year but annoyed with my race, especially as I usually favour hilly courses and like the bowl.

we had 3 fail before we'd even raced so that's 50 quid and MC's warm-up pissed away

Howd that happen? I've only played with them briefly but didn't have any trouble

I ran my tubs way too low for the drier-than-expected ground, (18-19psi as I was expecting a mudbath)

No sighting lap?

I've used latex tubes on my road bike with no problems for a couple of years. I think MC pinch-flatted one, and I had one blow when I tried to put a bit more air in it and I think one of hers did something similar (they'd been fitted days earlier and inflated to ~20psi and I'd checked for pinches).

No sighting lap?

The race timings at Central mean you go straight from sighting/warm-up to gridding for V40 - pump in the car not the pits which was too far to get too. Also only about my third time riding tubs so still learning what is the 'right' pressure for different conditions and the difference between "squirming" and "folding", so I finished the sighting with "they feel a bit soft, but....". Obviously at race-pace you're hitting everything harder and faster so I'd erred in the wrong direction.

Like I said, I wasn't happy with how my race went and I'm not blaming anybody other than myself. Only started racing in 2015 so still learning.

Been off this week so I've made a little preview vid for our clubs race on the 5th. Singleton park in Swansea if anyone likes the look of it 😆

Nice vid ferrals, looks most pleasant if you didn't know there was cx race involved. Just finished building my parts bin Juggernaut and taken it for a shakedown, mighty quick even if the gears don't work. Left myself with a full two weeks to train for my first race too, so with a new (old) bike and fresh but fat legs I should boss it.

cheers. It is a great venue, last year we had baking sunshine so hoping for the same again!

Fresh legs definately the key 😆

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/nationaltrophy/article/20171026-nationaltrophy-Race-guide--2017-18-HSBC-UK---Cyclo-Cross-National-Trophy-continues-in-Abergavenny-0

Anyone going to Sparsholt on Sunday?

Yep. First race of the season (i've been away). Looking forward to it but i'm sure i'll be dragging round the back. fitness isn't good, skills are non-existant.

Say hi, green bike, green Push the Cranks kit.

Cool will do! I'm sure I'll get a rude CX awakening as usual 😀

Top 58% is my best ever finish but usually it's top 80% 😆

I'll be riding this heavy beast:
[img] [/img]

Currently undecided on kit. For comfort I'd like to wear my skinsuit but I don't want to trash it with mud 😀

Fab race in Abergavenny today for the Welsh League / day one of crosstober Wales. Really good course, proper cx course, crazily dry too won't even bother cleaning my bike, just a tiny bit slippy on some of the offcambers. Only got a couple of hours sleep and had a stressful morning so was chuffed to be in the top 1/3rd, especially after a poor start and considering several fast interlopers. Course suited me though, lots of corners, cambers and wooded bits so could just cruise through them and didn't strain the fitness too much apart from one straight into a headwind from hell that went straight into a bit of a drag climb. Also forgot Garmin to just raced to what was in front of me rather than second guessing stuff while watching heart rate.

Just home from the Nat Trophy V40 race at Abergavenny. Superb course, which was nice and slippery after some overnight rain but it dried rapidly to super tacky by the end.
Reckon I got about 25th place after a cracking battle with three others forming a small group. I decided to take a few chances on the corners/cambers on the last lap and it paid off as I picked them off one by one from the back then held on till the end. It was quite exciting!

Well that was a rude awakening! A 95% grass course and no time off the bike, it was tough going.
I paced completely back to front and got slower as the race progressed as I ended up in no mans land with no motivation.
NP was 275 and AP 261 but it felt harder. The fast straights were my strength and the flowing twisty bits my biggest weakness. I rode them ok but just couldn't carry the same speed that the quick guys were managing.
Tyres were awesome. At 30psi they had most of the grip I needed (plenty of slides for amusement still!) but were hard enough to never bottom out.

I didn't get a chance to pre ride the bigger of the two steep climbs but at race pace it was fine. I just carried my speed, pre-shifted to my lowest gear and then a few stiff pedal strokes crested me over.

Not sure what else to say really. The standard felt very high compared to 2014 when I last raced there and I managed top 50 odd % on my MTB until my chain snapped.

Ended up 50/68 or so I think so pretty meh but a 10% improvement on last years results.

Good coverage of Abergavenny on S4C, I recorded it but I guess it will be on catchup/YouTube as well.

crosshair - I've only just finished picking the grass out of about every component of the bike! I was novicing to stay within entertainment thresholds of my U10, so I avoided the lump of doom to the NW but it still felt like hard work today. Overcooked a back braking and dropped the chain first lap, so lost about 45 seconds .. the drawback of having one do it all bike, 1x would be way better for me.

Ended up 50/68 or so I think so pretty meh but a 10% improvement on last years results.

In seniors? If so you beat me by one place - my first ever CX race. I was an idiot on a steel MTB.

It’s certainly interesting - I finished the first lap quite high, mainly by being able to ride round corners apparently - despite starting on the back row, but having never done anything like it (race DH and Enduro) I blew up spectacularly and spent 3 laps suffering.

Still deciding if it’s something I want to do again. Flat pedals were not a great choice 🙂

Had an enjoyable go at Leverhulme park in the NW series - after a sequence of BS colds and ailments actually felt like racing for a change, nice course, buuuut then managed to roll a tub on the third lap 🙁
Bit of an experiment in that I'd got a new limus and thought I'd just tape it on to see if that would work - guess I have my answer. Be nice if it did, as it takes 5 minutes, but I suppose you'd need to be quite a light rider to get away with just tape.

Yep Hob Nob! You were quick! I caught up with that guy in pink after two more laps and then he lit the afterburners and cleared off 😆