[Closed] 1x11 cassette weighs as much as the rest of my bike.

I'd have thought the appeal of 11-46 was you could go 32t or 34t on the front and still winch up anything?

I just don't get it, what exactly are the benefits of 1x over 2x?

Have you tried it? It just makes the FD redundant for many of us.

I just don't get it, what exactly are the benefits of 1x over 2x?

I just don't get it, what exactly are the benefits of 1x over 2x?

It's not weight, it's not price, it's definately not chainline and it can't be a chain retention thing?

What are the benefits of 2x over 1x?

Depends on the bike. I've still got 3x on my Salsa because it goes up steep hills, optionally with luggage, and it can also go along roads and down fast road descents on smooth tyres.

You're looking at it wrong.

I disagree, I think your looking at it wrong. Going from 2x to 1x I would want to know what the advatages are, apart from losing a front shifter and mech.

dirtydog - Member

It's not weight, it's not price, it's definately not chainline and it can't be a chain retention thing?

Uh, yes, it is weight and chain retention. Remove mech, cable, shifter, chainring. My rear shifter, chain and mech are the same as I'd use 2x (XT) and the cassette (X01) weighs and costs about the same as an 11-32 XTR cassette. So that's what, 350g? (depending on your crank- direct mount saves a little more)

Chain retention is open and shut, a 1x with a clutch and narrow wide retains a chain better than 2x even with a chain device. Which of course is more weight.

Price... Is tricky, because comparing like to like isn't really possible. But my 1x setup (XT shifting, X01 cassette, works chainring) cost [i]less[/i] than a comparable quality (and heavier) 2x setup would have- simply because there's less parts to buy.

There's some more trivial differences... I like single ring shifting, no recovery shifts, never in the wrong ring. And it's better for mud clearing too. But these are just bonuses.

I disagree, I think your looking at it wrong.

I have one bike running 1x11 and the other running 2x10...both shimano.

In practice they both do the same job, they were put together properly at the beginning and have needed bugger all maintenance, the 2x10 is two years old and the 1x11 coming up to one year...if I was to be hyper critical then the chainline on the 1x setup is horrible looking even if it works perfectly...remember when people used to run 2x and 3x systems and get their knickers in a twist about using the big ring to big sprocket or vice versa when in the granny and using the smallest sprocket out back?!...same thing happens with a 1x setup but people conveniently forget how they used to fret over this in order to get on the bandwagon.

Seriously, if you've never been able to get a front derailleur working for you then who has been fettling your bike and just how bad are they!?

In its favour I'll happily concede that a 1x setup is easier to clean and on a tech climb or tricky decent only having to think about and coordinate one shifter is nice but far too much of the reason people changed recently is simply fashion, gears should be there doing a job and not something you actively think about on a ride, loads of people go 1x and never get it working properly for whatever reason....if that's the case ditch it and go back to 2x or whatever worked previously for you...life's too short to worry about this...and the furrowed brows and hand wringing over a few grams here and there is laughable, once a rider is properly in shape and not carrying any excess timber then he/she can start worrying that the drivetrain on their bike is 200 grams heavier than a different setup!

For those sticking with 10 speed at the moment, it's incredibly tempting, I was on the CRC website earlier and couldn't believe how cheap it is, at those prices it's virtually disposable....use for a year and bin ready for a new drivetrain next year....or keep a winter and summer setup separately....11 speed and 1x crank kits aren't that cheap yet.

If I was building my own bike I'd go 2x10 for reasons of cost and having years of good service and experience with that setup, if I bought a new bike and it came with a 1x drivetrain then I'd happily just get on and use it, in my experience the difference is so tiny as to make no difference, far more relevant to me enjoying a ride is my braking setup, saddle height or malfunctioning dropper post, location, tyre choice etc....i've never driven home thinking "that was great but it'd be better if I had a 1x setup"....but I have driven home plenty of times cursing the tyres, pondering a brake bleed etc as these can make or break the ride (and subsequently me!)....a properly setup 2x drivetrain works just as well as a nicely done 1x setup and shouldn't detract from the ride.

Front mechs are the work of the devil.

Also, one hand for dropper, other hand for changing gear

I've not lost a chain since fitting a chain retention device and I dont even run a clutch mech. No one's going to notice 350 grams.

remember when people used to run 2x and 3x systems and get their knickers in a twist about using the big ring to big sprocket or vice versa when in the granny and using the smallest sprocket out back?

Yeah, I still do.

+1 on your post.

dirtydog - Member

I've not lost a chain since fitting a chain retention device and I dont even run a clutch mech. No one's going to notice 350 grams.

If you're oblivious to weight differences then fair enough, you'll not feel some of the benefit- but [i]apart[/i] from the lower price, better chain retention, mud shedding and less shifting, what has 1x ever done for us?

If you've had to add a chain device to make the 2x work properly, obviously that's yet more weight and cost (and depending on your choice, sometimes more drag, more mud blocking, more finicky setup)

I don't think the fella is open to persuasion on the issue by us gullible fashion victims with our lighter bikes, better chain retention and uncluttered handlebars.

😉

if you're oblivious to weight differences then fair enough,

With a combined bike/rider weight of anywhere between 70 - 100kg, I'd eat my hat if you/anyone could tell the difference in 350grams.

More like half a kilo with your chain device I reckon. So what other parts have you fitted that are more expensive and 500g heavier, on your 25kg, £5000 bike? Or is it just drivetrain weight that doesn't count?

Or is it just drivetrain weight that doesn't count?

It all counts, its just the benefits are often over exaggerated in order to support an agument.

What, like saying that the 350g (or 500g) weight saving isn't a benefit, you mean?

It all counts, its just the benefits are often over exaggerated in order to support an agument.

Not so much over exaggerated and more that they matter to some more than others.

Weight of bike matters to me so I ensure I have a light bike and do look at weights of components. Not because it will make me 10 seconds faster over an hour but because I like the way a lighter bike rides.

2x is shit. Whats the point? If you can't get up a hill with a 42t rear cog you're probably seriously fat or the hill is too steep.

Why anyone wants to mess around with two shifters while descending is beyond me, especially in a competitive environment. Most of the 1x seems to have developed along side all mountain/enduro around the concept to reduce clutter, retain the chain and make life easier.

And all that extra kit for 1 extra ratio? I can't see any advantage to your 2x.

What, like saying that the 350g (or 500g) weight saving isn't a benefit, you mean?

I can only speak for myself but 350-500 grams would barely be noticable, if at all, so no, not a benefit I would notice.

If you can't get up a hill with a 42t rear cog you're probably seriously fat or the hill is too steep.

Eek, i didn't mean to spark a whole 1x. Vs 2x debacle. I was just curious about weights considering people were debating them.
I'm guessing that it'd be about that XT 1x11 would be slightly lighter than XT 2x9 if all things like chain links and cables are considered but the weight gap would widen if a more exotic SRAM/Hope/E-thirteen 11spd cassette is used.

2x is shit. Whats the point? If you can't get up a hill with a 42t rear cog you're probably seriously fat or the hill is too steep.

Why would I want a 42t? Looks silly and generally appear to be made of aluminium and wear out quickly.

Why anyone wants to mess around with two shifters while descending is beyond me

Me too, why would you? 😕

Why anyone wants to mess around with two shifters while descending is beyond me

Me too, why would you?

joefm - Member

2x is shit. Whats the point?

first let me say that both my mtb's are single-ring. i like it, but it's not perfect.

i miss the ability the jump to much easier gear with 1 click, and it's 1 click that's usually pretty reliable.

to get the same change-in-ratio from the rear derailleur requires 3 or 4 shifts, which *can* be done with one big push, but i find that usually ends up mis-shifting between gears - requiring a little nudge on the shifter to settle down.

Three more reasons to dis the 1x11 fad:

It still drops chains, almost as frequently as 2x, but then you've no way to pedal the chain back on.
1x rear derailleurs also weigh quite a bit more than 2x (!!).
1x rear cages are longer to cope with the extra size of the cassette and requirement to hold the chain over a wide range of cassette; they also spend more time in the mid-upper range position on descents, as the front chain ring is smaller. Both of these factors make rock-strikes more likely and as 11 speed chains are narrower, precision is more critical so even a light tap may upset shifting quality.

I'm another who has noticed how cheap good 9 & 10 speed has become. There are a lot of folk out there desperately trying to justify their choice and that's fine; for me, the clincher is simple. 1x11 costs way more than my existing kit and I can climb further on 2x. Happy days!

Ahh. £10 for 45g and a wider spread of gears. I can see the attraction of that.

2x is shit. Whats the point? If you can't get up a hill with a 42t rear cog you're probably seriously fat or the hill is too steep.

highlandman - Member
1x rear derailleurs also weigh quite a bit more than 2x (!!).

Wut?

1x rear mech:

[img] [/img]

2x rear mech:
[img] [/img]<

1x rear derailleurs also weigh quite a bit more than 2x (!!).

A bit, yes. Some quick googling gives an increase of 35-40g from xt 10 to 11. But my 1x10 mech weighs the same as someone elses 3x10 rear mech...

1x rear cages are longer to cope with the extra size of the cassette and requirement to hold the chain over a wide range of cassette;

Now that doesn't seem right. A 10-42 cassette needs the mech to deal with 32 'spare' links. A relatively compact double at 24-34 and 11-36 needs 35.

they also spend more time in the mid-upper range position on descents, as the front chain ring is smaller. Both of these factors make rock-strikes more likely and as 11 speed chains are narrower, precision is more critical so even a light tap may upset shifting quality.

Given that the top of a lot of doubles is really not very different to what people are running on a single, I would argue that wouldn't make a noteworthy difference to where the mech sits. Mech movement to deal with suspension and poor setup of chain length probably have as much impact.

1x rear cages are longer to cope with the extra size of the cassette and requirement to hold the chain over a wide range of cassette

Now that doesn't seem right.

Northwind makes the point there better- 11 speed mechs heavier than 10 but that's irrelevant of number of chainrings. If you have a smaller gear range (see above) the cage can be shorter and therefore lighter.

Wut?

One problem with these discussions is people argue to their own specifications, you used to run a certain drivechain on a certain type of terrain with your own specific fitness and your new 1x does/doesn't work for you because X,Y,Z.

Next poster along ran an entirely different setup, terrain and fitness and their new 1x system does/doesn't work for them because A,B,C

Categoric statements like "2x is shit" are, well, shit.

<edit>If I get a choice of drivechain on my next bike it'll be shimano all round then later, if gx stays within ~£15 of XT I'll take the cost hit for the lighter weight and greater range, kinda doubtful it will tho (as per previous post)

So my obvious attempt to troll worked.

I don't really care what you run. But to call us that have adopted it as gullible is fanciful. It works and for a lot us it is a lot less hassle when riding. It is dearer but then the bikes they usually adorn aren't cheap either so it's relative.

FWIW I don't even like 2x on my road bike, Di2 or something that would just allow me to go up and down with just one button. Not go in the other direction when swapping at the front.

poes law or edinburgh defence?

I like 1x systems, so much so that half of my bikes use them.

I like 1x systems, so much so that half of my bikes use them.

Looking at those mech weights, that's 100g more than my old 9 spd xtr. I presume slx is even heavier.

Scamper - Member

Looking at those mech weights, that's 100g more than my old 9 spd xtr

Clutches add a bit of extra gubbins- an 11 speed XTR is 222g so basically 40g for the extra feature.

I have 1x 2x and 3x in use so can't really be accused confirmation bias...

Got me there Colin, I've no 3x systems, that's my socialist credibility gone now!

1x11 Sram on all three bikes. Couple of q-rings on two of them.

Only criticism I would say, more noisy than other set-ups.

I don't even think or reminisce about multiple front rings in any way shape or form.

Like everything new in MTB - "First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." 😉

Mountain biking is full of developments that seemed like a good idea at the time, hung around for a while, then went out of fashion again when folk realised they were just wrong. I'd include everything from the Girvin Flexstem to the 26" wheel. Let's see how long 1x hangs around for all but a niche.

Let's see how long 1x hangs around for all but a niche.

[i]Really[/i]?

Some people just need to feel different or special, eh? I guess they'll hold onto 2x, but we've not seen many go back yet.

Let's see how long 1x hangs around for all but a niche.

There are a lot of people who have run 1x systems for a long time - I remember winching myself around the Peaks on a 1x9 set up with a chain guide. The likes of Dirt were setting up their bikes like this ages ago too.

It works for me and it gives me space to run my Reverb lever under the bars. I have no intention of going back to a 2x set up.

Why can't we all get along 😆

I still own a 3x bike (will be 1x come replacement) and have tried 1x and 2x.

I prefer 1x. It's more expensive (subject to change), wears out faster and the range not as wide (apart from the latest and most expensive) those facts are undeniable.

When set up right I found it less hassle to fettle and troubleshoot, set and forget IME. Definitely does not drop chains as often (clutch mech gets some credit here) unless the NW ring is worn out. No more chain suck! Can slip a new chainring over the pedal without removing the crankset, not a biggie, probably possible with 2x, not the 3x smallest ring though. It's easier to clean/look after and no front changing mechanicals to fiddle with.

Ghetto 1x10 without the mech conversion or 11sp mech is flaky and if badly set up to boot awful. I've seen a few badly set up home 1x conversions, wrong chain length, poor chainline, not enough b tension, not enough chain wrap and mix-n-match knackered parts, all on one bike in some cases!

joefm - Member
2x is shit. Whats the point? If you can't get up a hill with a 42t rear cog you're probably seriously fat or the hill is too steep.

Let me know how you get on, after fitting a 52T n/w chainring, or you are Chris Hoy and I claim my £5. It's about ratios, not just the cassette sprocket size. 😉

Any meaningful studies yet into accelerated wear on 1x over 2x, due to nasty chainlines?

Is the wear rate less if you fit a 64BCD n/w chainring, limiting you to a 28T, over 104BCD chainrings?