[Closed] 1x11 and long XC rides.

Consider a SRAM 10-42 cassette for a wider range, you could run a slightly smaller chainring and not loose out on the climbs compared to a Shimano 11/42. XT is available in 11/46 i believe so a whopping range there. Should be a non issue.

Do you do any road bits on your long xc rides? Otherwise a 30 would be fine I'd have thought.

That said, I've got a 32/42t bottom gear on my new bike and its very twiddley. I'd have thought you'd probably cope with that, I don't think I'll use it often.

I'm a couple of years older than you and live/ride in Scotland.

I went 1x11 last year, 29er, fitted a 30oval and 11-42 rear.

Worn all that out now and replaced with a 32oval and 11-46 rear.

Has a low enough gear for long hills yet high enough gears for covering distance.

Been running 1x11 in the Peaks for almost 3 years now. In the summer I'm regularly doing 6-8 hr rides. (I'm on 30lb FS, 26" wheels with a 32T oval ring, 10-42 cass). No great issues. I can get up the back side of Jacobs Ladder from Hayfield and I can get up the House of Pain climb towards Winstone Lee Tor from Ladybower. Sure you have to work hard at times, but isn't that the point?

The Lakes is harder as it's significantly steeper and more technical. I just accept there's more pushing & carrying, but then the kind of Lakes riding I enjoy is always going to major in hike-a-bike, so its no big deal.

Alps - most of the riding I've done recently has been fireroad up, singletrack down. Really no issues at all.

but I like the low gear my 2x10 gives me.

will you actually be losing it though? what is your bottom gear.

32:42 = 26:34

Kinda thinking you didn't try very hard if you can't find 2x
Canyon, Scott, BMC and Trek are all doing models of their XC bikes in 2x.

I do agree though that 2x is still king for long days out over hilly/mountainous terrain.
1x makes sense on an XC race bike though, so can hardly blame manufacturers for speccing it on their top of the range models.

32:42 = 26:34

That may be true, but its a long way short of 22:36

Aye, scout around a bit and you'll still find 2x bikes. It'll be better in 2018/19 when the manufacturers who lost sales due to no 2x option reverse that decision.

22:36 on a double on my Soul 26 and 1x11 with 32:46 on Anthem 27.5. The HT does get me up steeper stuff due slightly lower gearing though the FS maintains traction better, so not a lot in it.

Legs differ in spec more than bikes.

My own experience is that truly steep and long riding is hard on 1x11 without serious compromise on chainring size.

I tend to bias towards climbing and accept a loss of top end. My Epic runs 28t and 10:42 on hilly courses. For the Manx100 Marathon Champs I'll be refitting 2x10 to my race hardtail as I won't be able to do without the top end.

as above plenty of 2x bikes still available, but if the one you want isn't a 2x then ask the shop to swap out at source?

Or, get a 2x crank that you can use as a single but also fit a stealth granny to. ie: on days when you know you might need a granny, fit it on the inner tabs but leave off the mech and shifter, and if you need it you can drop it in manually

Don't tell anyone, but I fit one for massive days out.

Oh, and obviously MTFU to a point where the above is irrelevant 😉

Even though I like 1x drivetrains and have such on two out of four bikes and considering it for a third, there are instances where I don't think it's the best option and there are riders for whom it isn't the best option.

I think it's short sighted on the manufacturers' part to design a frame that can't accept a front mech even if one or more of the range based on that frame are 1x systems. Locking the customer into 1x when it isn't suitable for them is stupid.

XT is available in 11/46

I've got one and it is the worlds ugliest bike component.

It's still some way short of the 22:36 bottom gear I used to have.

Still, I'll just have to butch up.

It's the top end that I don't want lose on mine. I accept that in the peak or lakes there may be some pushing or carrying involved!
I've just built up a cotic sloaris and put a double 36-22 on it with an 11-36 cassette. 30t ring up front just wouldn't be enough for long road sections.
My big bouncy bike is 1x10 11-42 though as I'm not taking that on long xc rides with possible road sections.

11x will come later....

My own experience is that truly steep and long riding is hard on 1x11 without serious compromise on chainring size.

+1

I have 1x11 on my full-sus but the XC bike still has 3x9 for this reason. I can still get up the hills and have enough gears for the other bits (which may include some road).

ScottChegg + 1, as per my post earlier.

Gone over to 1x11 on my MTBs over the last couple of years.

My willy-waving-free assessment is that its fine for long rides, but sustained steep climbs will be tougher and you will likely be pushing a little more.

It's not enough to make me want to go back to 2x in the slightest though.

I have a 10-42 with 32 chainring which gets me up climbs that if any steeper would result in loss of traction or a wheelie. 32 x 10 gets me up to about 30mph so plenty for road sections too.

I've got 32t front, 11-42 rear on my 26" Zesty, but run a triple crank with the 22t granny ring in place without shifter or mech. Generally I can get everywhere I want on the standard gearing, but if I hit a very steep, long hill after 3-4 hours the granny will come in useful. I don't do very long rides on that bike though, generally trail centre, uplift, under 15 miles. On my XC bike 2x10 11-36 & 26/38 is much better for lomg distances and smooth, fast stuff including road I find.

It's ok powering up climbs at the start of the ride on your 1x drivetrain, less fun, and less achievable after several hours.

I race marathons in the Alps / Pyrenees and use 28 or 30 tooth oval with a regular 10-42 XX1....
I'm 85kg & an old man btw.

It's surprisingly versatile gear set-up

I ran a single ring setup, 10 speed 32 x 10/40 when we did the South Downs in a day and it did almost break me towards the end (we'd been going for 15 hours by the end and the last third was a significant test of my resolve not to throw the bike into the nearest hedge) - I wish I'd had some smaller gears. Both mates were on double cranksets and were managing the short steep hills better towards the end. Saying that I'm now on an 11 speed with a 30 x 10/42 which may make all the difference though due to a small child I've yet to ride more than 4hrs in one go over the last year.

When i was fit 'ish' i had a triple with 11-36 on the back of my 26 inch anthem. I remember not using the the granny ring once all year, and that included 4 hr hilly rides.

if you are reasonably strong a 42 at the rear will be fine.

I've gone 1x11 for the first time this year.

In my opinion, most 'off the shelf' solutions are shipping with gears too tall - typically 32t rings. I am going to change to a 30 or maybe even smaller.

Realistically, on a 'proper' mountain bike ride - how often will you be spinning out a 32-10 ratio at 25+mph? Not often, in my experience.

I am happy to lose some 'theoretical' top speed to get the climbing gears back.

Being able to spin at a high cadence also helps to negate this loss too!

.....with an 11-36 cassette. 30t ring up front just wouldn't be enough for long road sections

This always comes up.... 30/11 on a 650b at 80rpm is 17mph. At 100rpm is 21mph and at 120rpm is 25mph

I'm happy to spin on road sections on my road bike at these sorts of speeds; if you're fit and fast enough that it's a problem then you bloody well should be able to ride a 32 or 34 front instead 😉

I ran a single ring setup, 10 speed 32 x 10/40 when we did the South Downs in a day and it did almost break me towards the end (we'd been going for 15 hours by the end and the last third was a significant test of my resolve not to throw the bike into the nearest hedge) - I wish I'd had some smaller gears.

Perfect example where the stealth granny comes in.

When i was fit 'ish' i had a triple with 11-36 on the back of my 26 inch anthem. I remember not using the the granny ring once all year, and that included 4 hr hilly rides.

if you are reasonably strong a 42 at the rear will be fine.

But a 4 hour ride isn't particularly long. I think people accept that 1x is ok for short rides, but they're wondering about long days out.

Four hours is short, a reasonably long day is 12hrs, I'm fine with 1x for a ride like that here in the Dales. For instance last year's YD200 route was 190Km with 3000m of ascent and I took 14hrs. Walked two hills, one of which I've never managed even on a 3x9 when fresh rather than after 180Km.

Perfect example where the stealth granny comes in.

It wouldn't be completely crazy to run a granny without a mech under these sort of circumstances would it ? Like the SDW. At the bottom of the climb, just manually flip it onto the granny then get up the climb.... then at the top, swap back to middle....

I suppose i could just fit the mech and externally cable it for one weekend.

[quote=thegeneralist ]

When i was fit 'ish' i had a triple with 11-36 on the back of my 26 inch anthem. I remember not using the the granny ring once all year, and that included 4 hr hilly rides.
if you are reasonably strong a 42 at the rear will be fine.

It's sort of obvious where 1x is targeted.

This always comes up.... 30/11 on a 650b at 80rpm is 17mph. At 100rpm is 21mph and at 120rpm is 25mph

Mines on a 29er now, and i've no real idea how that affects things but I know the bigger chainring felt better on roads on my 26er than 32t 1x10 11-36. I hate spinning like a nobber on roads. I'd rather be in a bigger chainring and cruise.

It wouldn't be completely crazy to run a granny without a mech under these sort of circumstances would it ? Like the SDW.

That's what i mean by a stealth granny. 35g for the ring only, no reason not to just in case

Four hours is short, a reasonably long day is 12hrs

I've never spent 12hrs on a bike in a single day !! I'd guess 90% of riders haven't either. Chapeau to you sir 😀

@taxi25 - so long as you eat and drink well and go steadily, i.e. try and avoid going into the red, it's not that bad. Last year's BB200 took me 19hrs of which 2.5hrs was opening gates, raiding the Spar, scratching my head wondering where the route went, etc. Could have done the same again the next day. Like anything I suppose, you get used to it.

Back to 1x - if it suits you and you are happy with it then use it. If not then use 2x/3x drivetrains.

That's what i mean by a stealth granny. 35g for the ring only, no reason not to just in case

Sounds like a plan to me 🙂 I was wondering if it would be completely daft, but SDW does have a few long climbs

10-42 with a 32T oval - I've not struggled with anything i couldn't get up when i had a triple. you just get used to pushing a bit harder

I don't have any issues with my current normal set up of 32t front and 11/42t rear on a 29er XC FS, can happily do 28-32kph on the road in top gear and if it's so steep I can't pedal up in on bottom I might as well walk as it'll be just as quick.

I've run a single N/W chain ring (1x10) with no front mech but retained an inner 22 chain ring for emergencies, i.e really steep stuff or if the legs are feeling it. I don't run a chain guide & have a clutch mech,the inner ring also acts as a chain catcher on the rare occasion the chain has dropped.
Works well for me.

I run an inner chainring too but I've gone all modern with, like my dropper seatpost and suspension, a remote lever that lets me select it as I'm riding.

Ison , who distribute Sunrace cassettes have on their website and in stock 11 speed 11-50 casettes which could be a bit of a game changer .

But a 4 hour ride isn't particularly long. I think people accept that 1x is ok for short rides, but they're wondering about long days out.

fair point.

i've never ridden for 12 hours. If this was my regular intention i'd probably get a double as well.

would have thought you'd have no issue finding someone to swap bits with however. I upgraded my trance from 2x10 to 1x11 straight away and had to sell the 2x10 bits for peanuts.

given you can use the same rear mech and shifter surely all you need is a front mech, shifter and new chain rings. I still have the xt/slx shifter/mech combo unused from my new bike that i didn't even bother selling they are so worthless.

wouldn't let it influence what bike i bought

Another occasional stealth granny user. Not currently fitted to either bike but on the rare occasion I might have a full day to go riding somewhere really hilly it would get bolted back on.

If I was doing all day epics regularly I think I'd either look at the 50t dinner plate sprocket or 2x to get the closer ratios between gears with same spread.

I'm still on 10speed at the moment running 32x11-36 and 34x11-40.

I like the reduced mud collecting about 1x in winter.

2x11 is worth considering. You can find it in xt and xtr flavours fairly readily. You can then choose a gear range for everything a mortal will ever do. I took the 2x11 option so there's no issue with being in the lakes one week then the flat south the next, which happens throughout the year. Nice silly bailout gear that you can spin up anything in, yet enough top speed to hammer down fireroads etc.

If you do go 1x11 but have doubts, then go shimano xt. That way you can always add in the other parts to go 2x11 at a later date. This keeps your options open.

That stealthy granny idea is genious. May adopt that on the trail bike given how unfit I am.

[img] [/img]

stealth granny; the 35g insurance policy for the older gentleman.

Does anyone run a stealth granny with a oval main ring? If so what shape and what tooth?

My current rig is a 32T oval with a 11 - 42 Sunrace and Radr cage. A bail out granny setup could be very useful for my euro trip in August.

yes, I do. I have a 22T old school granny alongside a 32T oval (Absolute I think, or might be a S/Star with an Absolute in the parts bin waiting to go on) on an extender cogged 11-40 10spd set-up.

Never had any issue, there's no shifting ramps on the larger ring to try to pick it up, and also given I spaced the chainset so that the 'single' ring is mid cassette (or use a triple chainset using Granny and middle), the inner is virtually straight line on about 3rd cog at the back, so hardly cross chained at all in 2 or 1 and any bend is away from the middle ring. It does mean that trying to run granny and 6 or 7 is about all I'd run before it crosschains badly the other way - but then given the stealth granny is for 'oh ****, another big hill' emergencies G and 4 is about all my little legs would do at that stage anyway

(32:40 is the same ratio as 22:27.5 which is G and 4 give or take, if I'm in G and 5 or higher I could do it on the main ring anyway)

Excellent, thank you 🙂

IME, with the exception of racing, the further you ride, then the greater need for lower gears as downhills become more about recovery. 22 hours into a 24 hours ride and it still isn't low enough. My preference is 26 x 42 on my fatbike and 29+ - might be a bit spinny for some, but I still pass other riders going uphill. It also helps going 'offpiste' on loose surfaces, sand and snow where mashing a gear simply results in a spinning rear wheel.

@dovebiker - I had 28x42 as my lowest gear on my fat bike out in Rovaniemi and definitely used it a few times whereas I rarely used the top gear - that was usually on the downhill road sections. A 26T would have been a better spread for me.

Going off-piste didn't require gears as it usually resulted in snow angels 😳

That stealthy granny idea is genious

Agreed, it gives you all the advantages of a 1x setup, but with the option of a 2x when it's needed. Awesome idea.

I'm thinking of doing the same thing but find it a faff to stop and move the chain from one ring to the other when I want a bailout gear or when I want to shift back to the 1x cog.

I might see if I can bodge together some sort of mechanism to move the chain from one ring to the other without having to stop and get off the bike.

That would be todally the best option... I'd get all the respect and kudos for having a gnarpoonlike 1x system, but with all the flexibility and advantages of loads of gears. I think I'm going to call it the Umwerfer.

Sorry mate, I beat you to it a few posts ago.

Expect to hear from my Solicitor about Patent Infringement

Sorry ScotRoutes. Your shonky grammar confused me.

Or at least I thought it did. Having re-read your post, your grammar was spot on, and reading it again taking account of the Oxford commas, it actually makes perfect sense.

Humble apologies.

Yeah yeah........

For 90+% of my riding I don't need a stealth granny, or a mechanically shiftable granny. i also don't need an extra shifter, and a front derailleur gathering mud on my downtube.

For rare occasions, massive days out, etc., I like to have my 35g insurance policy, which can be fitted with 4 bolts in a few moments the day before*

On these days the ability to change gear with a lever isn't a major help, because at that point a few moments off the bike changing it manually gives a bit of respite / chance to stretch / lie on the floor with cramp.

* who am I kidding. For 35g it can stay on. But I'm still not fitting a shifter, derailleur and cables.

For 35g it can stay on

I'm relieved you wrote that. I was starting to get brainache at the thought of someone taking time to remove/add a granny before each ride.

I had a 30 chain ring and 11-42 cassette on a 29er and found it hard on the climbs yet at the top-end it would spin out at 45kph so hardly ever used it so am now going to change to a 28 chain ring and lose some top end speed.

The low-end gearing is far more important than the top-end, how much time do you really spend pedalling at 40+ kph off road, compared to how often I'm going up a steep hill and wish I had a lower, more powerful, gear ?

Plus, lacking at the bottom-end bothers me a LOT more than having to cruise at anything over 40kph. Especially on long distances e.g. 40-60 miles.

I'm relieved you wrote that. I was starting to get brainache at the thought of someone taking time to remove/add a granny before each ride.

I did use to - but it wasn't each ride, it was once every now and then (maybe a few times a year). But then I realised first swig out of the waterbottle made more of a difference and gave up 😉

Ride Sram X1 10-42 on a 30 - all day up / down no worries. Left 3x on my hardtail XC for long days with uphill but found I just adjusted my style, got fitter, spin faster and never bother taking out the lightweight xc any more.

1x doesn't even save all that much weight or space. You'll just be slower than you need to be overall.
Don't be tempted by lame fashion.

6079smithw - Member
1x doesn't even save all that much weight or space. You'll just be slower than you need to be overall.
Don't be tempted by lame fashion.

Lol at the idea of adding a manual-shift granny gear for the fashion victims who have to have the latest 1x trend regardless of its unsuitability.

Lamé fashion? I could never pull off metallics.

OP - I went back to 2x because I wanted a greater gear range for my long distance rides. I'm sure someone will have posted their spreadsheet demonstrating how 1x can match 2x (but the best 1x systems cost more). I was not willing to spend the extra money on the best 1x to solve a problem i didnt really have since 2x gave me what i needed.

It's a funny fashion 1x. Lots of people do it but often at a compromise (less slick gear changes, missing high and low gears, cassettes wearing out quickly, having to push up steep hills etc).

Also, everyone on this forum is anonymous and no one knows how each other rides, how fit, their version of a long day, trail centre, mountains or canal tow path etc. It's only you who'll know if it's right for you. Try it and see how you get on. You might love it.

I'm sure someone will have posted their spreadsheet demonstrating how 1x can match 2x

One thing's for sure. I know what I ride, and what I want/need more than anyone else, which is why my response to anyone who say "xxx is all you need" is "no, xxx might be all YOU need".

There's a reason Shimano make front mechs still, and it's not because they're behind the times. And new Di2 overcomes MTBers' inability to coordinate 2 shifters too.

On the one bike I did put 1x11, the frame being able to accept 2x and having 73mm BSA BB was a major selling point. And the Shimano 1x11 crank is actually 2x11 but with no granny installed. I can upgrade to 2x11 at any time for peanuts.

The 3x9 XC bike will get upgraded to 2x11 sometime. That's the one I'll do 7-8 hour mountainy rides on. And sod the dropper too.

Let me get this straight... some people are going 1x but then leaving a granny ring on but not bothering with a mech and shifter!!!!

Fashion gone crazy, surely this is 2x but with the inconvenience of having to get off and physically move the chain!

If you say "I run with 32T chainring" then you have to qualify it with the wheel size you are using it with. Very roughly: a 2T difference in the size of the chainring is equivalent to the difference between 29 & 27.5 and between 27.5 and 26. So 32T on 29er is the same as 34T on 27.5 and 36T on 26" (very approximately but it's close enough for most analysis)

Don't know where edenvalleyboy gets his "less slick gear changes, cassettes wearing out quickly, having to push up steep hills" from. An XT cassette is going to wear just as quickly or slowly in a 1x system as in a 2x or 3x one. Similarly for the gear changes - it's only like being in the middle ring all the time. There is going to be greater wear on the chainring as there's just the one so it gets all the wear rather than sharing it between two or three.

There [b]is[/b] a loss of range, with a 1x10 setup (XT cassette with extender), it's about three ratios so you can choose where to lose them. I typically go for one at the bottom end and two at the top. Even so it's rare that I use either the 11T or the 40T cog, I've just got back from a 77Km ride in the Dales with 1550m of ascent, the lowest gear I used was 32:32, I'd got the 36 & 40T ratios left. Some steep hills in there: 25%, as well as some very slutchy ones.

I've posted before that it's not for everyone, but the blanket statements: "it's not for long distance XC" are demonstrably false.

Loving Scotroutes' ninja granny up there... 🙂

Personally I'm fine with 32t 10-42. My 2x10 bikes had gravitated to 26/38 and 11-34's which were faster at the top end, but to my mind once your past the scary no bail out granny, the bulk of the problem is Shimano deciding to keep the old FH and therefore lumbering any adopters with 11t top. Unnecessary limitation.

Should have mentioned that the loss of three ratios going to 1x10 was from a 3x9 drivetrain not a 3x10.

Fashion gone crazy, surely this is 2x but with the inconvenience of having to get off and physically move the chain!

Have you actually read any of the posts about it. It's not there to be used, it's an insurance policy just in case. On the days when it is needed it's not going to make a huge difference to the overall ride and the chance to get off and stretch as you change isn't a major issue.

For 35g, what's the issue?

And anyway, wtf gives anyone the right to tell me what works or not on my bike for (some of) my rides. Fashion victim? No, I have a setup that works for 95% of my rides and an insurance policy for 5%. Carrying a 2x setup that isn't needed for 95% of my rides just because it is needed maybe three times a year - that sounds stupid to me.