[Closed] 1x Gear Set-Ups

honourablegeorge - don't forget the better chainline.

The chainline issue with 1x upsets me like fingernails down a blackboard. That probably says more about me than anything else tho

Chainline in reality is pretty much irrelevant, the difference between a double and single is about 3mm- exactly the difference between being in the 1st cog, and being halfway inbetween the 1st and 2nd cog, in terms of angle of deflection. I could work out exactly what that is but I can't be assed, it's bugger all anyway.

Just did a quick sum and it appears the chain deflection is less than 1 degree more with 1x vs 2x. So outside of some people's heads, does the variation in chain line matter at all? The numbers would suggest not!

On chainline - on my 2x9 setup my 1:1 gear is almost straight chain. on a 1x setup the 1:1 gear is at the extreme more or less. Big differnce

despite being an advocate of 2x, I can see the benefits of 1x in that it enables the designer more freedom with the frame design. If all you're doing is "deleting the front mech stop" then don't bother.

On chainline - on my 2x9 setup my 1:1 gear is almost straight chain. on a 1x setup the 1:1 gear is at the extreme more or less. Big differnce

I see your point - but other than the visual difference, what is the functional difference?

I'm starting to think that the 2x and 3x zealots are actually the ones being led by form over function...

Functional difference - a straight chain is more efficient and wears less and wears the sprockets less

Probably fairly insignificant in the real world but its the sort of thing that annoys me.

Functional difference - a straight chain is more efficient and wears less

You say that - but is there anything other than hearsay which supports this? The world of engineering is full of things that are 'obviously true' but when tested have been proved wrong or negligible.

I believe so but don't have links Certainly not wrong but possibly negligible in the real world. Not negligible in my funny mind tho 😉

been on 1x9 for ages

never had a clutch mech, device or narrow/wide chainring and never lost a chain

I am very happily using 1x11 on my main mountain bike. It brings me a slight lightness of spirit. My last couple of bikes have been bought complete though, so I haven't had to price up the SRAM bits individually. That may well have helped.

I run a 30T ring with a 10-42 cassette (29er). The low gear is pretty low. I'm well aware that a fitter and more determined rider would feel the lack of a taller gear at the top end 🙂

I went 1x10 earlier this year and really like it, haven't once tried to reach for the left lever.
I'm on 32t NW + 11-42t suntour ms3 (i tried an oval but didn't get on with it)

Can't see myself on a 2x system again for MTB

I'm a little surprised that this continuation of the 1x11 thread has garnered so much opinion. I've been reading - and avoiding - these threads because it has been a non-issue for me for some time. Just like disc brakes on road bikes 😉

Been 1x10 for a couple of years and I love it. Performance across the board is such an improvement, it's not costly and i've not noticed any increase in wear. My most common gears tend to be in the area with best chainline, and have not felt under or over-geared. Love a quiet transmission and have had zero dropped chains in 2 years of running it. I run 32/11-36 on a 2 29er HTs, and perfect for my riding. I don't live in a particularly hilly/mountainous area but do ride in the mountains without issue - as chief said above, would go 40 or 42 if i lived somewhere like that. Happy to go 1x11 and no return to 2x or 3x. Will probably end up 1x on the road bike soon too.

tjagain - Member

Functional difference - a straight chain is more efficient and wears less and wears the sprockets less

Probably fairly insignificant in the real world but its the sort of thing that annoys me.

I'd say it's hugely insignificant and just ot borned out by people's experience in the real world where 1x drivetrains are lasting really well.

So, up until mid-summer, I've always ridden with a 3x something-or-other setup. Then I bought a new bike with all shiny new modern bits. Bigger wheels, huge bar, no stem to speak of, dropper post and a 1x10 drive setup with a clutch rear mech. I'm definitely getting killed by this setup on long draggy climbs, even with a 40t expander on the rear. However, I am rather...large boned...and struggle on most climbs anyway. Where I'm really enjoying the 1x10 setup though, is on the descents. No more thrown chains, or chains jammed between the rings and the front mech. This was a common enough occurrence on my old bike, generally after a rooty / rocky descent, immediately followed by a sudden sharp climb that required rapid gear changes, or more often than not, a comedy pedal spin whilst looking down at a loose chain in despair.

I'm also enjoying just not having to think about front mech shifts anymore. Will it change up or down on demand? Or has the mud and leaves clogged everything up too bad? I reckon I'm a 1x10 convert. It has it's downsides for me, as I'm not fit enough to cope with what I feel is a reduced range of gears, (although that could all be in my head), but I just feel it works better, and there's less to go wrong.

C. 🙂

Is it only me that never drops chains on 2x? Maybe because I am scrupulous about setup and maintenance?

<standard answer> It's cos you is a mincer.

Anything remotely rough or fast and my old 2x10 setup used to slip the chain.

I'm 1x10 on my Aeris at moment (no support for front mech) and I'm going 1x11 at the end of the month due to longer distances and bigger climbs I've been doing.

I was slightly envious by the end of the 25 miles we'd done of the 30 gears one guy had.

I pretty fit for my size and I managed the 25 miles and 2800ft of climbing (32t front, 36 rear), but my legs were spent!

I don't get the 1x versus front mech debate. Both are available and have their pluses, use whatever suits your needs.

Is it only me that never drops chains on 2x? Maybe because I am scrupulous about setup and maintenance?

I don't get the 1x versus front mech debate. Both are available and have their pluses

except in this specific thread where mike is considering the requirement for a front mech cable guide/stop on the 27.5" Prince Albert frame

which 'everyone' is waiting for.

I'm a big fan and have been using them for ages - used to use 1x9 with a proper chain device way back.

Currently using 1x11 on my hardtail and really like it - the GX cassette and mech were not too expensive but seem to be lasting really really well.

The the sake of a couple of guides, I'd make your frame compatible with front mechs.

Been looking at 1x for my 26" bike. I ride in the Lake District on triple 22/32/44 and 11-32 9spd.

I regularly drop into my 22 - 32 lowest gear (e.g. nan bield pass)

I also infrequently spin out 44 - 11 on downward road link sections.

The nearest range 1x would be something like 34T with 11-46.

But would I miss the top gear / would the lowest be low enough?!

Is it only me that never drops chains on 2x? Maybe because I am scrupulous about setup and maintenance?

No, unsurprisingly my front mech works really well as a retention device, chain is completely enclosed between mech cage and bash ring, you would need to split the chain or remove the bash to get it out.

I regularly drop into my 22 - 32 lowest gear (e.g. nan bield pass)

I also infrequently spin out 44 - 11 on downward road link sections.

The nearest range 1x would be something like 34T with 11-46.

But would I miss the top gear / would the lowest be low enough?!

32 46 is pretty much the same as 22 32 but then you would only have 32 /11 at top which is a way off 44 11

If you are regularly using the top and bottom then a 1x will be a compromise

anyway, now we have decided.

what colour should the new PA be?
and will it be simply called a prince albert or does it need some nominal tweak to explain the tweaks?

but then you would only have 32 /11 at top which is a way off 44 11

Next time you get to a hill like that leave it in the equivilent of 32/11 or 32/10 see what the difference is

tjagain - Member
Is it only me that never drops chains on 2x? Maybe because I am scrupulous about setup and maintenance?

Is it mainly a full-suspension thing where the rear mechs can't keep up with suspension travel and subsequent chain growth/contraction?

, I reckon too many folk are choosing the wrong gear ratios when descending.

I've already said that I think 1x is ideal for those that can't coordinate the use of two thumbs.

Two thumbs? Gears dropper and lockout? Maybe 2x is for people who have preconceptions...

Is it mainly a full-suspension thing where the rear mechs can't keep up with suspension travel and subsequent chain growth/contraction?

Possibly, I certainly [s]never[/s] very very rarely used to get any issues with chain drop on 2x or 3x on hardtails, I did have one full suss though which used to throw it regularly, but it was losing it off the bottom of the front ring in very rough/fast stuff so would normally pedal back on, and I think a clutch would have sorted it, but other full suss frames before and after that one were as reliable as HTs.

I still don't get all the hate, 1x works for some people brilliantly, it even works for me brilliantly on some of my bikes, but 2x and 3x also work brilliantly and gives some options that 1x doesn't.

I'm pro-1x, but anti-1x-compulsion 😉

scotroutes - Member
I've already said that I think 1x is ideal for those that can't coordinate the use of two thumbs.

....and already said that you've already said that..... several times. It's almost as if it were some kind of trolling... 😉

Mike, I'd vote keep the tab, or perhaps include a bolt on version? (If such a thing exists)

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the effect of chain line (the important bit of chain line, in the vertical/longitudinal plane, rather than the lateral/longitudinal place) on full suspension bikes. With most designs the anti-squat and pedal kickback is vastly higher in the granny ring than the big ring - if it has a nice balance of bob resistance without losing too much traction through stiffening in the middle ring then it'll bob too much in the big ring and stiffen too much in the granny.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the effect of chain line (the important bit of chain line, in the vertical/longitudinal plane, rather than the lateral/longitudinal place) on full suspension bikes. With most designs the anti-squat and pedal kickback is vastly higher in the granny ring than the big ring - if it has a nice balance of bob resistance without losing too much traction through stiffening in the middle ring then it'll bob too much in the big ring and stiffen too much in the granny.

No, the reason for the change in anti-squat is due to the change in the chain line force vector and its interaction with the line between axle and instant centre and how that moment balances the moments generated by the force vectors from the contact patch (driving force) and rider mass centre (inertial force).

You can simulate it in various packages or have a look at this blog;

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk

anti-squat is due to the change in the chain line force vector and its interaction with the line between axle and instant centre and how that moment balances the moments generated by the force vectors from the contact patch (driving force) and rider mass centre (inertial force).

[img] [/img]

No, the reason for the change in anti-squat is due to the change in the chain line force vector and its interaction with the line between axle and instant centre and how that moment balances the moments generated by the force vectors from the contact patch (driving force) and rider mass centre (inertial force).

You can simulate it in various packages or have a look at this blog;

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk

["Instant Center" (sic) is part of Tony Ellsworth's theory about why his four-bar designs worked, and is basically wrong (though it didn't stop him patenting it). Instant Centre is relevant to car suspension designs because in those, the wheel plane is at right angles to the suspension bars and you need to keep track of how the wheel angle to the vertical changes through the suspension travel because of the tyre contact patch etc.]

You don't have to do the maths - ride a full-sus with a double or triple and pedal up some hills with the shock open in similar gears in all the rings (ie big to big, middle to middle, small to small) and the difference is obvious.

I would call it effective pivot point but instant centre seemed more popular...

Coming in to this thread a bit late in the day, but its timely as I am just about to change bikes. Of the two options I am considering one has no option for a front mech, the other does. Thought process so far:

Trying to take a balanced view as part of the new bike choosing. On my main bike I am currently running 2x10 with 26/36 and 11-36, but would like a slightly lower bottom gear because where I live has a lot of long steep climbs. I have pretty much never had an issue with dropped chains, front mech issues etc, so it works OK, but having a shifter and dropper remote on the same bar is bit of a PITA

I am definitely going to try 1x11 on the new bike as I can see the benefits. Going 30T chainring with 11-45 would give me my slightly lower bottom gear, including allowing for me going to shorter cranks which make a difference to the gearing (or required torque to be more correct). At the top end I would only lose just over 1 cog, so not really an issue

A couple of things I shall be avoiding at least for now:
1) SRAM Eagle because I am not prepared to spend £250 if I trash my mech
2) Di2 for the same reason and not convinced it is yet proven reliable if given a bit of a knock and then submerged
3) The Shimano 11-46 cassette which must be the most bodged bit of kit in Shimano's range. They have taken an 11-42 and just changed the largest sprocket rather than any intermediate ones, so the jump between the two largest sprockets is 24% which is ridiculous

So for me, I reckon 1x11, 30T oval front with a One Up kit for the Shimano 11-40 which will give 11-45 in decent steps. Will probably also choose the bike that will allow me to go back to 2x in future if needed

You don't have to do the maths...

[i]Is it only me that never drops chains on 2x?[/i]

Me neither. Or on my old 3x9 Yeti.

CaptainMainwaring - Member

So for me, I reckon 1x11, 30T oval front with a One Up kit for the Shimano 11-40 which will give 11-45 in decent steps. Will probably also choose the bike that will allow me to go back to 2x in future if needed

IF you're going to the expense of a Oneup kit for the 11-40, I would seriously consider a SRAM GX 10-42 from bike-components.de - comes with an X1 chain, and make the switch to the XD freehub

https://www.bike-components.de/en/SRAM/GX-11-speed-XG-1150-Cassette-PC-1130-Chain-Set-p50103/

honourablegeorge - Member

CaptainMainwaring - Member

So for me, I reckon 1x11, 30T oval front with a One Up kit for the Shimano 11-40 which will give 11-45 in decent steps. Will probably also choose the bike that will allow me to go back to 2x in future if needed

IF you're going to the expense of a Oneup kit for the 11-40, I would seriously consider a SRAM GX 10-42 from bike-components.de - comes with an X1 chain, and make the switch to the XD freehub

https://www.bike-components.de/en/SRAM/GX-11-speed-XG-1150-Cassette-PC-1130-Chain-Set-p50103/

ride a full-sus with a double or triple and pedal up some hills with the shock open in similar gears in all the rings (ie big to big, middle to middle, small to small) and the difference is obvious.

Which full sus?

All of them!