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[i]Do you genuinely think they have the best interests of other people at their heart[/i]
Obviously they're looking after their shareholders, but, yeah I 'genuinely' think that most designers set out to build a better mousetrap. Weird huh? 😆
1X11 works for a 'lot' of people and it won't for another 'lot'. c'set la vie.
EDIT: forgot, mostly for me (and I'm a resolutely average mountain biker BTW), I run out of gears at the other end!
good old trolling seems a bit redundant on here nowadays......... 🙁
The nice thing about 1x is frames can be designed around a much less varied chain line, so better optimised for good pedalling without kickback.
That is true - often overlooked advantage of 1X
chief, would you go 32T on your 26" bike?
The negative posts here include a lot of if's. The maths stack up for ratio's, if you get the opportunity, try it.
Losing the front mech and moving my reverb control makes up for losing a little bit of gearing.
Sometimes working a bit harder results in some improvements to your fitness.
Last year I would not have entertained a 1x set up.
convert - MemberThat is true - often overlooked advantage of 1X
or, an often overlooked advantage of a multi-ring setup is that you can change the pedal-feedback behaviour of the system, simply by changing gear.
If someone can make a 1x11 that has a 9-56 tooth cassette, then if I've done the sums right, that'd go nicely with a 36t chainring and give me the ratio range I desire. 3x9 with no overlaps must be a bonus surely?
Guessing I'd need a Rohloff and the right ring/sprocket to get that?
or, an often overlooked advantage of a multi-ring setup is that you can change the pedal-feedback behaviour of the system, simply by changing gear.
Has anyone done that since the original marin [s]trail-quest[/s] mount vision 😆 Great climber that was when in the granny ring.
Losing the front mech and moving my reverb control makes up for losing a little bit of gearing.
I think this is a big reason why people do it TBH. The weight saving reason is bollox.
or, an often overlooked advantage of a multi-ring setup is that you can change the pedal-feedback behaviour of the system, simply by changing gear.
I've yet to hear of a designer stating that multiple chainrings could be an advantage to suspension design - more usual for a system to be designed around one ideal chainring and the others being a compromise. Not having to make that compromise acceptable has to free up the the designer to improve the system in other ways.
yeah... making space for new fangled semi-fat tyres 😉
well my 2 x 10 stuff is nearly worn out so I'm considering it
i reckon sram 1150 cassette, xd driver, chainring, and xt shifter / mech would be about £300, cheaper if you get the xt cassette as wouldn't need the driver
my current low gear is 24 / 36 = 0.67 (this is on a 29'er). I don't use this much but it does allow me to winch up some steep bits without getting off, or accelerate over tricky roots etc. I do use 24 / 32 quite a bit
28 / 42 would give me the same low gear at 0.67, 30 / 42 I could probably go with (only about 7% difference to 24 / 36)
so my concern would more me around top gear. 28 or 30 / 11 (Shimano) would be lower than an old school middle ring, so I can only see me going SRAM for the 10. 30 / 10 is close to 38 / 13 so I'd lose my fastest gear (38 / 11)
so it seems I'd lose about half a low gear and my fastest gear if 1 went 30 up front with 10 / 42
went from 3x9, to 1x11. Not found anything I can no longer climb. more than happy with it.
convert - MemberI've yet to hear of a designer stating that multiple chainrings could be an advantage to suspension design
he may not thank me, but i was para-phrasing Cy Turner.
he didn't present it as a clear-cut reason for sticking with multiple chainrings, just that there are interesting things that curious bike-geeks might enjoy thinking about.
nickc, the 26" bike used to have a 32t. In the last five years I've gone:
3x9 (42-32-22 11-32)
2x9 (36-22 11-32)
2x9 (36-22 11-34)
2x9 (32-22 11-34)
1x9 (32 11-34)
1x10 (32 11-36)
1x10 (33 11-36)
1x10 (34NW 11-36)
Been on 1x10 for about 3 years, the last set-up for 2 years. Had the 27.5 full-sus 18 months, swapped from 34NW to 32NW 9 months ago.
So many hilarious generalisation posts here. All against the idea of 1x as well funnily enough.
I'm terribly unfit frankly and have noticed no drop in what I can and can't go up since I went 1x9 first and now 1x10 (11-40t & 32t).
A lot of the 'arguments' against are from people who haven't seemingly used it, and consider advancing of technology (or just a different option as thats all it is) in any field of bikes to seemingly be black magic or something. Something other than 26" wheels?!!!! Dear God, you heathens!! And so on.
Also, the bike looks a damn site nicer in a 1x setup
The bar is far less cluttered
It saved some weight
Don't say there is no advantage to it existing. Just say that you personally don't want to use it, and move on.
I find a front mech is alright for trail centre riders who ride smooth terrain and therefore aren't so worried about their chain slapping around. However, for riding real mountains in the lakes, I have found a 1x setup to be a revelation.
On difficult terrain, the main problem is traction rather than gearing and so even if you have lower gearing you end up not using it or your wheel will spin.
Both systems have their compromises so there will be people who will always prefer one over the other. I'm not sure what there is "not to get" though.
A couple of things I've found about climbing in less low gears is that your power stroke is longer and the force impulse at the tyre is less sharp, so it seems easier to get up and over more lumpy slippery bits.
Chief, your progression isn't hugely different to me! Only I've stopped here:
[i]1x10 (32 11-36)[/i]
but with an NW ring.
happy with it, but might try a 34T to regain a bit at the high end
If you can't ride 30t 11-42, then you should probably take up golf or another sport that involves motor powered vehicles.
I find a front mech is alright for trail centre riders who ride smooth terrain and therefore aren't so worried about their chain slapping around. However, for riding real mountains in the lakes, I have found a 1x setup to be a revelation.
Have you tried 3x10 with a clutch mech? done a lot of rocky riding on mine and never had a drop, the fact i can put it in the big ring cuts noise from chainslap on the chainstay compared to my 1x10 bike with its smaller ring.
On difficult terrain, the main problem is traction rather than gearing and so even if you have lower gearing you end up not using it or your wheel will spin.
Terrain such as drainage gaps can require you to hold a higher speed or higher gear for a 'punch' of speed. But these scenario are not all the time tho, and having a lower gear is always nice regardless.
It's not just about the bottom end. It's easy to pick a ratio for that. It's not possible to pick a ratio for that, and still keep all the top end ratios too.
And some of us ride up alps, not just a peak or a trail centre uplift van.
+[b]chiefgrooveguru[/b]
the force impulse at the tyre is less sharp
I'll have to take your word on that..........
I was at c-y-b on Saturday, riding my prehistoric bike with 3x9, and found that I did lose the chain a bit, and didn't use the big ring, so 2x10 with clutch mech would probably be a bit better option, but I ride all over the place, on the same bike, so having options is best for me. There will always be compromises, but for now I'd rather have more gears, and drop the occasional chain, than less.
And this 'far less on the bars' stuff is rather exaggerating the matter, you lose one cable, and one shifter, shimano sit neatly under brakes anyway, so hardly any difference. It just allows you a nicer dropper remote position.
andytherocketeer - MemberIt's not just about the bottom end. It's easy to pick a ratio for that. It's not possible to pick a ratio for that, and still keep all the top end ratios too.
Yup; but 32:11 is pretty high for offroad- bearing in mind downhill bikes are usually only geared to 36:11.
Easy answer fashion led crap forced on us poor mountain bikers.
Real answer genuine change in thinking that works slagged off by people who have never tried it or can't do the maths.
depends what you ride
32:11 is not particularly high at all
basically in to freewheeling territory instead of pedalling on quite a bit of terrain I'd be riding. as I said, I ride the big ring much of the time, and that's 44t.
I rode up a particular hill near me on my old 3x9 bike 2 days before getting my new bike with 1x11. I can happily say, I got up with both, sometimes 'wishing' I had just one more gear - but don't we all think that occasionally ?
If your bike comes with 1x11 then you are VERY lucky. If you want to add it to your current bike -don't !! It's far too expensive. Simples !
As a rider who was always sooo reluctant to move away from 8 speed, I can honestly say I absolutely LOVE my 1x11 more than anything I've ridden.
By the way the problem for me with the above 30t 11-42 ratio Kudos mentioned is not on the climbing its at the other end 30 into 11 is a bit too low for most as a top gear.
I use 2x10 at the moment on two of my bikes 2x9 on the other that gives me an ideal spread of ratios. Im fit enough to enjoy riding, and ride up mountains. Thanks for the advice Kudos but I am happy mountain biking and don't want to do motorsport. The one thing you should learn is that there are many different styles and opinions in riding MTBs none are wrong. Thats why we have rigids, single speeds fat bikes DH bikes XC bikes Jump Bikes and Trail bikes Trial bikes and others.
I went 3x10 with 10-36 to 1x10 32T with 10-36 over a year ago and I've found that I immediately just got further up awkward stuff to begin with because of the momentum carried into it with 1x10 and not having to do an emergency granny shift that could drop a chain has been amazing.
I also found that traction is the limiting factor with any setup. If it's so steep the 1x10 won't do it the 3x10 wouldn't have done it either, I found.
I ride the mountains in North Wales plus the normal TC stuff. Anything I've got off and walked has been because no bike would get up it or I'm at an Enduro race and pushing up is just plain fashionable + saves energy. I pretty much have to fall off before I'll give in and push when I'm out on solo rides. I get really annoyed with myself if I didn't manage a climb and I'll go back to the bottom and try again.
I will admit that certain very long climbs, say over 3 miles, on uphill fire roads or when you're very tired can be a little draining but the 1x10 system has made me fitter. Winter can be challenging too but it's great for fitness.
I love 1x10. Saves weight. Chain never comes off. Looks better. You make better use of all the cassette cogs. It's cheap and easy to maintain if you stick to 1x10 and buy XT cassettes, SRAM chains and a N/W chainring. Job lot wearable drive-train costing £33+£16+£35. Switch the chain every 450 to 650 miles and it never misses a beat.
I'm running 26 inch wheels and I'm happy riding Jumps, Drops, AM, XC, Trail, Enduro, DH or Free ride. It's just Mountain Biking for fun.
1x11 is old hat anyway.
1x12 is where everything's headed.. 8)
Much better.
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🙄
I use 2x10 at the moment on two of my bikes 2x9 on the other that gives me an ideal spread of ratios. Im fit enough to enjoy riding, and ride up mountains. Thanks for the advice Kudos but I am happy mountain biking and don't want to do motorsport. The one thing you should learn is that there are many different styles and opinions in riding MTBs none are wrong. Thats why we have rigids, single speeds fat bikes DH bikes XC bikes Jump Bikes and Trail bikes Trial bikes and others.
I was just trolling the troll. Not serious at all. 😀
Whats wrong with you lot, 3x11 is the way forward..
Surely having 33 gears is better than 10/11, who had the most gears was always the best when I was a kid.
😀
WTF?!! *stands back, crosses arms and looks on in amazement*
New Shimano XT it is then 🙂
Sram only bothered to do 1x11 and 2x11. At least Shimano give options.
Personally, I'm waiting for 1x13 shimano.
Why is it that no-one seems to talk about cadence, torque or power on these threads?
Are you saying people are doping? 😉
So it isn't so much about how steep the climbs are but about how long your rides are.
[i]If[/i] there's a downside to 1x9 or 10, then this is it. It's much better for hammering around stuff fast for an hour or two IMO. Partly that's down to fitness, but it's also down to the fact that it requires you to pedal a bit harder to get up stuff. Sometimes that's an advantage because you'll carry more momentum. On the whole I'd say I climb quicker with 1x10, and get up all the same climbs, but the pace might tire me out a bit sooner. SRAM 1x11 (and to a lesser extent, Shimano 1x11 and Ghetto 1x10 with range expanders) goes a long way to correct that, though. Depending on what front sprocket you choose, you still have a very usable range.
As for it being a problem in the Lakes, well that's a load of balls IME. I guess it depends where you ride, but for me the Lakes is about the high Fells and riding some big exposed stuff. To that end most of my recent Lakes rides have involved a lot of walking where I might as well have been single speed. I'm sure 1x is good for trail centres, but I wouldn't know 😉
I am with the OP. 1 x 10/11 is fashion led. ok for trail center stuff that the blokes who like it ride. places like the [s]lakes[/s] Highlands where proper mtb riders frequent, it is [s]nigh on useless.[/s] absolutely fine and quite popular
good old 3 x 9 was and still is [s]far better.[/s] fine
and don't quote the weight saving crap.....most men can afford to lose a stone or 2. adding the weight of a front mech/shifter/ring mean nil. [b]Just 2 :)[/b]
Anyone else on here long for the heady old days of this forum when the standard answers to any questions were "32:16" or "Conti Vert Pro's"??? 😕
Got 1x11 on the new ride seems to cope with N.Wales and the Alps quite well. Don't talk. Get your cadence. Enjoy the climb.
Never liked front mechs off road, they are big mud magnets and haven't had a usable granny gear on a bike since 1999. The clutch mech and narrow wide ring are great inventions as far as I'm concerned. Slack and low geometry however..
A "not proper" mountain biker and his 1x11 drivetrain recently:
[img] 
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30 into 11 is a bit too low for most as a top gear.
For some, maybe, but for most? At 120 rpm you'd be doing 25mph and I suspect if you're doing that speed your either on the road or easy double track. If you're still wanting to pedal at 25mph and not riding something easy then kudos, but you're not most people.
Plus the cost is crazy and those posh cassettes don't last two minutes, or so I hear. So what's the deal?
I was on the verge of heading off to do something more productive but i thought i would reply tho this one.
Posh cassette 😛 i will admit to spending a fair whack on a complete X01 drivetrain with no real expectations on how it would perform. I had the money to burn after a refund from a set of carbon hoops that kept committing suicide on top of very high mountains.
So 18 months down the line this is where i am at, i am still on the same cassette. I am on the 3rd chain and the second front chainring which i dropped down for hitting the mountains this summer 🙂 yea i know.
In that time i have ridden shed loads. 2 week long holidays. 2 week long multi stage events with trans in the title. and lots and lots of normal riding. I dont have the exact figure but its lots 🙂
On that basis alone i don't think it is fair to say they last 2 minutes. If you take care of the drivetrain it will last. It really is not rocket science. And change the chain out before it really trashes the cassette.
Oh and before i forget as i said i was very open to accepting the disadvantages and advantages of the system, for the riding i do its pretty much a perfect solution. Simplicity it where its at. If you ride mountainous terrain all the time i think a 2 x 10 may benefit you more but for me i see no real disadvantages to 1 x 11
I cannot achieve anything like 120 RPM, and haven't often witnessed anyone doing that!!(I might add I use flats so maybe I'm not pedal efficient!) . I rarely pedal downhill that much and don't do competitive downhill. Im just a fun rider and get up to 17-20mph max on what I enjoy. I prefer a "reasonable sized " 32+ up front so I can still kick on the pedal to help lift the front for manuals and getting over rocks and going off drops. I don't often do that in the 11t rear sprocket and would be in the middle of the block. Shimano fitted 32t middle rings for years. I guess as lots of people(most?) like that. Therein is the answer.
For some, maybe, but for most? At 120 rpm you'd be doing 25mph and I suspect if you're doing that speed your either on the road or easy double track. If you're still wanting to pedal at 25mph and not riding something easy then kudos, but you're not most people.
Exactly. I have a 32 on 26"FS and a 30 on the 29"FS, and the only time I ever run out of gears is on the long boring road sections between some of my local trails, which doesn't bother me tbh.