[Closed] “In ten years, there will no more MTB’s without electric motors.”

No doubt they'll be much more common, perhaps they'll even be a (small) majority. But I don't see them making regular bikes obsolete.

Cue lots of uninformed posts from people who either don't understand what an e-bike is or haven't even tried one

simondbarnes - Member

Cue lots of uninformed posts from people who either don't understand what an e-bike is or haven't even tried one

<<<< this

How the hell does someone not understand what an E-Bike is? It's pretty straightforward. I've ridden shit loads of the things, including folders, trikes, cruisers and more and it didn't spark some kind of epiphany in my head where previously there'd been some kind of blockage or lack of understanding.

I agree with the Focus guy.
A 29+ full sus e-bike with 33 speed Di2, a push-to-pass button, traction and launch control - sign me up!

Hopefully you're not one of them but go on then, explain what an e-bike (at least in the sense being discussed in the OP's link) is because I can assure you, the other threads made clear that lots of people don't know what they are...

“In ten years, there will no more MTB’s without electric motors.”

That will be the day after I fit gears and suspension, then?

The industry can dream about disposable-teching us up, but there still will be a lot of us who just want to ride a plain simple proper bicycle. 🙂

with almost every game-changer or major innovation in last couple of decades I've said "that'll never catch on"

Actually if the chap from Focus had in mind 'motors' as in e-gearing with a battery topped up by a small dynamo I'd say he's likely to be right.

This thread is worth bookmarking for ten years time!

I don't think the weight's really the issue tbh. Til they can make a £350 e-bike (which is pretty much where "proper" mtbs start) without compromising usability it'll never happen.

Anyone who follows the bike industry has seen this the same launch about every 5 years or so, for the last 25 years. They have got better, but nothing has fundamentally changed.

I can't imagine anyone in the "industry" would resort to hyperbolic cobblers in order to shift their latest product. Must be completely true then...

I stil run a suntour XC pro front handlebar shifter mech (year about. 1992)
-eat your heart out :)))

Anyone who follows the bike industry has seen this the same launch about every 5 years or so, for the last 25 years. They have got better, but nothing has fundamentally changed

So at what sort of distance does the battery become ballast, and is regenerative braking (say on long gentle slopes) in sight yet?

I'd have one for the turbo

Personaly it's not for me but for many it will allow more access and I think that's a good thing but there are many issues over output speed and regulation. With no easy solution I can see ( number plates ) etc.

They would be much faster than a regular MTB apart from going downhill. 15mph on the flat is really hard on a regular MTB it takes a huge effort that cannot be sustained for long periods, especially on a bad surface such as grass. If the wind is against you then its nowhere near that speed. Much faster uphill it goes without saying. I'd want one when they come down in price and get lighter weight. Lifting a 30kg bike over gates wouldn't be much fun, niether would pushing it up a hill if it couldn't get traction, or having the battery fail when its 20 miles away from the car.

if I do a hilly 30 mile ride on a regular MTB I'm too knackered to properly enjoy another good ride the next day while if I had the ebike I could just get that out.

Mountain biking will increase in popularity if the Ebikes came down in price and got lighter, as the sport would be more accessible to more people who previously were put off by the climbs. The problem is the natural trails would become overcrowded with bikes, going fast all the time regardless of gradient (not just downhill) and no doubt the dog walkers, hikers and other trail users will complain much MUCH more and it is more likely to get them banned on natural trails.

15 mph on the flat is easy enough if it's smooth ish. And very normal on the road/cycle path

Haven't read the whole thread...

Has anyone mentioned potential legality issues given that most path access is for non-motorised vehicles?

would you need a cbt and just be limited to byways ? Again output dependent I'm guessing

I'm generally about 5 years behind the current frames so mine won't be 'e'!

It's just more maintenance for the non enthusiast, so it won't ever happen entirely. IMO.

Mountain biking will increase in popularity if the Ebikes came down in price and got lighter, as the sport would be more accessible to more people who previously were put off by the climbs.

I'm kind of against things that make outdoor activities easier unless it's for people with a disability who couldn't access it otherwise. In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier.

Not just people with disabilities.There are some people who don't bike regularly so even just 12 miles is a struggle on a hilly off road route, so they dont ride often as such a short distance is hardly worth the bother of getting to the start point of a ride. I work with someone in this category and he said he'd like an electric mountain bike one day.

There are also even good riders who occasionally have time off the bike due to knee injuries etc an electric bike will still allow them to get out on long hilly off road routes while waiting for the knee to recover. Instead of spending an entire summer off the bike or just being stuck to easy rides while recovering from injury

My feeling, grannyjone is that the people you describe should alter their expectations whilst injured or build up to doing the kind of riding they want to do rather than using technology to overcome these difficulties. I think you get out of things what you put in and if you bypass the road to fitness or other difficulties you are impoverishing your own experience. Others, I know, will not agree.

There's a lot of pros and cons. You can see that in the replies.

For me it's down to a simple thing, it just feels wrong, it feels more like a motorbike and if you want one of those then go buy one but in my simple brain it just goes against what mountain biking is.

And for that reason I'm out.

[quote=ti_pin_man ]it just feels wrong, it feels more like a motorbike As a motorbikist I'd completely disagree.

[quote=Spin ]I'm kind of against things that make outdoor activities easier unless it's for people with a disability who couldn't access it otherwise. In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier.Lightweight bikes and components have helped people go higher and farther. Disk brakes and suspension have helped people go faster and be comfortable for longer. Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?

15mph probably seems about right for an off-road one I reckon, that's still pretty damn quick though.

What I think is shit is the 15mph speed "limit" on the road, what a shitty dangerous speed that is. It's waaaaay too fast for shared use paths bit not fast enough to mix with traffic, actually makes it more dangerous, needs to be 20mph at least, maybe 25mph.

[quote=monkeyfudger ]15mph probably seems about right for an off-road one I reckon, I reckon that's still pretty damn quick though.
What I think is shit is the 15mph speed "limit" on the road, what a shitty dangerous speed that is. It's waaaaay too fast for shared use paths bit not fast enough to mix with traffic, actually makes it more dangerous, needs to be 20mph at least, maybe 25mph.
You can still do that speed. It's not like the brakes come on automatically or anything

Not with any assistance, [jumping to conclusions] most using 'em probably don't want to be or can't push the pedals hard enough to get that far above 15-16mph.

I imagine you knew what I meant though...

Are you suggesting that no one should be cycling on the road if they can't do 20-25mph?

I've just come back from Austria - where e-bikes are already popular. A shop there said that for the first time this year they have sold as many e-bikes as conventional bikes. The rate of improvement in e-bikes is huge and the costs will invariably come down.

A virtually free unconstrained uplift service will be a guilty pleasure. There will inevitably access issues which will be virtually impossible to police.

Are you suggesting that no one should be cycling on the road if they can't do 20-25mph?

No of course not, try to stop being a douche. I'm suggesting that higher speeds would actually make 'em safer as they'd be able to mix with traffic better. Higher speeds would make them more desirable to more commuters too.

So - no less safe than current bikes then? Just that you said it was a "shitty, dangerous speed"

Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?

I acknowledged the difficulty of drawing a line by writing: "In saying this I realise that I regularly use many inventions that make my biking etc easier."

Personally, I eschew many of the developments you mention much of the time but realise others do not feel the same.

Ultimately I'm drawing a personal line at anything that drives the bike. As I said before, I think it's a good thing that biking is hard. For me it's part of the character of the sport and it also reduces pressure on the trails.

Where, exactly, are you drawing the line?

Solely human powered would seem a logical line to be drawn.

As soon as you get into the realms of pedal-assist, e-bikes etc they are no longer solely human powered....its that stumbling block that is massive for me.

I don't doubt they're good fun and if it gets couch potatoes out on the trail and can help them transition to normal bikes eventually then that'd be grand.....but to have a load of industry apologists simply state "it's gonna happen" is depressingly symptomatic of a society that craves instant gratification.

I enjoy a good hard climb on the bike (not at the time!) but the satisfaction at the top is awesome and I know the knock on effects for my strength and fitness will benefit me on other rides....I think e-bikes have the potential to take that away and lead to a group of riders who never really see any health/fitness/weight loss benefits from cycling.

Sad really, like when you see a fatty using a mobility scooter in the supermarket when they should be doing all they get to walk around more....modern life, path of least resistance and all that unfortunately.

So? No reason not to make them faster which will be safer in the UK with our shitty cycling provision.

I rode a bike earlier this year with an Italian electric hub ( http://www.zehus.it/) and I thought it was great. Never thought I'd hear myself say that. I think it had loads of modes but when I rode it, the motor just kicked and and gave you a wee help. Like riding with a tailwind.

Don't think I'd ever ride something like that offroad but could really see how it could get people into riding that are put off by distance or hills. I have a 20 mile each way commute and there are definitely days where I really can't be arsed and would happily pull an e-bike out for the ride.

All MTBs within 10 years though? Not a chance.

Oh, and that hub also had regenerative braking.

Here's a hypothetical for you Scotroutes 😉

There are lots of folks out there that think we shouldn't be riding on the Cairngorm Plateau (BTW I was up running and climbing some easy routes today, lovely it was).

One of the arguments I've used is that it's pretty difficult to get up there and so numbers will always be small and the impact low. How might e-bikes impact on that?

[quote=monkeyfudger ]So? No reason not to make them faster which will be safer in the UK with our shitty cycling provision.
Quite apart from trying to work out what sort of gearing would be required to ensure that the rider was still pedalling at 25mph, and then auto-sensing where the vehicle was so that it was still restricted to slower speeds off-road, you'd really need some sort of motorised cycle that was a bit more powerful, would require a bigger battery/fuel supply, uprated suspension (for the added weight/momentum) and would be powerful enough that some sort of rider training and licensing would be required. We already have those, they are called motorcycles.

They are a lot different to a motorbike. For one its illegal to take a motorbike onto bridleways, footpaths and trail Centre trails.

Plus around anywhere I ride regularly it doesn't take long until you come to a gate that you have to lift the bike over.

It's easy to get unrestricted e-bikes in the uk, or at least it was. I've had them up to 30mph+ in city traffic and it's kind of scary. I've also had restricted ones to well over 20mph along the same stretch of road as any e-bikes need to be thoroughly *cough* tested by bike shop staff.

I consider myself an average to good mtb'er. And I'd reckon that pretty much any average MTB'er is vastly more talented at bike handling than the casual cyclist or commuter. At 20mph on city/commuter specific bikes with skinny tyres, crappy brakes, odd weight bias, curious handling etc etc they start to become a bit of a handful.

[quote=Spin ]Here's a hypothetical for you Scotroutes
There are lots of folks out there that think we shouldn't be riding on the Cairngorm Plateau (BTW I was up running and climbing some easy routes today, lovely it was).
One of the arguments I've used is that it's pretty difficult to get up there and so numbers will always be small and the impact low. How might e-bikes impact on that?
Good one.

At the current power level of these things I'm not forseeing anyone getting up to the plateau much easier. As per my previous post, when you start increasing power and (therefore) needing a bigger power supply and getting into more weight, it [i]then[/i] becomes a motorcycle and therefore subject to the current restrictions.

Twas a good day though...
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U3hzFOWt_pdaYe6B9S-zzi673YPsPwBMBh-3EbPTuOqq=w1920-h657-no [/img]
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aEg1mygnhbLy_gpIRDbTsBvNRFOzc70cYbLWwTlPwSPB=w1287-h965-no [/img]

People have been using non-human powered transport on bridleways for centuries without issue. Otherwise known as horses. Personally I would rather see E-bikes on the bridleways than horses, but that is just me 🙂