Hi all,

Just a quick question, in a XC race (say for example, the Relentless 24), if, on a downhill section, you are stuck behind a slower rider, is it fair to shout “rider” and expect them to pull over (as would be in a downhill event), or should you just slow down and take the time hit (I know downhills matter much less than uphills)

Ta, Duane.

I find shouting STRAVAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!! gets the point across.

AFAIK it’s accepted practice.

Just don’t crash/stall etc right after you overtake.

is it fair to shout “rider” and expect them to pull over

It’s up to the quicker rider to get past, many people will move over if you shout that, but I’d not expect it.

shouting “rider” is a tad extreme! just be polite, people are more willing then, though at relentless i’d be more cautious as some people will have been on their bikes a lonnnng time 😀

Find a passing point and call rider right (or left). It’s up to the overtaker to get past safely and without inconvenience/danger to the overtakee. Some will pull over but they don’t *have* to.

You can shout whatever you want but as the majority of people doing this sort of thing aren’t “racers” as such, don’t be surprised if you don’t get a response. I’d have thought that asking for space (as opposed to grunting) is likely to get you futher.

I once got almost simultaneous shouts of “on your left” and “on your right” as two people tried to overtake me heading into a sharp righthander. Needless to say it didn’t work out very well for either of them.

You can always send your trail dog ahead of you…
IGMC

It’s up to the quicker rider to get past, many people will move over if you shout that, but I’d not expect it.

^this

Just a quick question, in a XC race (say for example, the Relentless 24), if, on a downhill section, you are stuck behind a slower rider, is it fair to shout “rider” and expect them to pull over (as would be in a downhill event), or should you just slow down and take the time hit (I know downhills matter much less than uphills)

they don’t have to get out of the way but nor should they be obstructive, the best way to do it is to spot an overtaking point and give an “on your left/ right” and overtake positively and politely

If there isn’t a real spot for overtaking coming up then a polite shout to ask them to give the call should assist (they probably don’t want you sat on their wheel)

however there is no requirement to move off the racing line for the rider being overtaken, especially where this would put them on a more difficult part of the trail

my experience has been (on the receiving side) is that decent riders will pass at appropriate places, with ample warning, or at least polite “can I pass”. Nothing worse than pi$$ing folk off IMO. It’s the weekend warriors on the whole that barge through and are not *that* much faster..

If I’ve been on someone’s tail, they will often ask if I want past – which is great. They may feel uncomfortable about that, and the last thing you want is to startle someone or hack them off – they might bin it as you past..

Passing on your left / right please!

Its a race, “taking the time hit” isn’t really the aim of the game so you’re well within your rights to shout “Rider” or “On your Left/Right” they are also within their rights to continue to hold you up or wait until they think its a safe spot to pull over as they see fit I suppose…

If being quick DH is a skill you posses it seem silly not to exploit it in an XC race…

I’ve often wondered when someone shouts “on your left” does that mean they are passing on your left or want you to move to your left for them to pass on the right?

on your left” does that mean they are passing on your left

yes

OK, all seems to be logical, cheers 🙂

Yelling STRAVAAA or MINCERRRR sounds like a plan too.

dont shout a sausage if your going to be ripping up the downhills only to be passed on the next up.

I must say if your a nobber and start shouting on the downs youll get sarcy abusive comments on the ups 😉

at relentless the next wide open fire road section is only minutes away.

Also, be aware if you shout “ELITE RIDER COMING THROUGH” at the top of your lungs from 3 feet behind me I will make no effort to get out of your way. If you’re polite I will try to get out of the way without knackering myself. If there’s room for two, clearly announce which side you’re going so we don’t have the inevitable crash.

You’ll get all sorts and it depends on the person (which I guess depends on the event). Some folks will have their hands full just getting through the stages and won’t have much time for you. Others will treat every person as competition and just don’t want you to get past.

Personally, I’m an also-ran, though quicker on descents than climbs… so when someone wants past I let them past as soon as is sensible, it costs me nothing over the course of a race but not doing so could cost a fast rider more. To me it’s just courtesy.

OTOH, I’m not so insistent when it comes to passing my fellow also-rans, for the same reason, it doesn’t matter that much. I’d still rather get past in order to carry on riding like I want to, but I won’t miss a few seconds.

So that’s my midfielder’s perspective- I’m in a race but I’m not racing all that hard and it seems like the majority of the field of big events is much the same. (though- you get crappy behaviour from people who think it’s all death-or-glory yet who’re competing for 500th, nice tricks like shoving in front at the end of a fireroad climb then getting off and running down the descents)

The other thing is that frankly, most people don’t like being closely followed. If someone catches me I want them gone, and that seems to be common.

as kcal said above.
In these all category type events, its up to the quicker rider to announce which side they are going to pass on and do so safely. Good riders are usually polite and will pass at a good spot with plenty of notice.

Last race/event thing I did, I noticed all the fast riders got past fine with a polite request and acknowledgement afterwards.

However, one absolute muppet yelled ‘rider’ on a section of tight singletrack. I knew there was a wider bit of trail in a bit, so carried on. Muppet then decided to buzz my wheel, which caused him to crash into the bushes. About 10s later it was wide enough to pass. 😕

TR, haha, I was kinda thinking the opposite, I’ll have to rip the DHs to make up for my uphill performance 😛

However in an XC race and if your being lapped the rules change slightly to being try your best to get out the way of the rider lapping you but as always this isn’t to be expected just a tiny bit more so.

Well it rather depends on who it is you are passing, doens’t it? If they are not in your race, or you are lapping them, then you are obliged to let them through I think at the nearest opportunity.

However if they are the person 1 place ahead of you in sport, it’d be a bit disingenuous to shout them out of the way pretending you are an elite rider, no?

And it’s sometimes quite hard to tell who you’re racing and who you’re not. Ok so if it’s elite vs open it’s fairly obvious!

As for passing someone on a descent only to be re-passed on a climb -that’s racing. I’m a slow climber but fairly good on desceents and flat singletrack. So I need to rip the flat stuff as fast as I can so I don’t lose as much time on the climbs. If I am being held up by someone I know I am racing though, I don’t shout – I just try and pass where I can.

However actively blocking someone is very bad form.

However in an XC race and if your being lapped the rules change slightly to being try your best to get out the way of the rider lapping you but as always this isn’t to be expected just a tiny bit more so.

do they?

8.3.8 A rider must act in a polite manner at all times and permit any faster rider to overtake without obstructing.

the only rule on overtaking, do you know of another?

As for passing someone on a descent only to be re-passed on a climb -that’s racing

+1

I’ve been on both ends of this and have found that a polite request to pass works from either end. The thing to remember is everyone’s in a race. The slower guy in front of you is likely to be racing in a different category as you and while you’re (well me to be honest)stuggling to hold onto your mid table position he’s in a race for a podium place. Yes it’s acceptable to want to pass a slower rider if the opportunity presents itself but is it fair to ask them to stop and pull over on a tight, twisty singletrack section? Not in my opinion. It’s the guys that shout “elite/pro/expert rider coming through” that piss me off, like they’ve got some unwritten right for the trail ahead of them to be kept clear.

Yes it’s acceptable to want to pass a slower rider if the opportunity presents itself

+1

but is it fair to ask them to stop and pull over on a tight, twisty singletrack section?

No

It’s the guys that shout “elite/pro/expert rider coming through” that piss me off, like they’ve got some unwritten right for the trail ahead of them to be kept clear.

They should be “outed” in front of the crowd at the end with quotes of their knobbery 😀

Does it differ on multi-category endurance races compared to single category xc races? Obviously you are racing everyone in the single cat xc race, so apply the rules as big n daft says above.

But over 12/24hrs with lots of different categories on course – surely a spot of politeness wouldn’t go amiss?

If I hear someone behind I’ll ask if they want past. If they ask “on your left/right” I’ll move over as soon as it is safe to do so. If they shout rider or elite rider then it’s up to them to get past me I’m afraid. Being good doesn’t excuse a lack of manners. I always ask politely and try to be chatty to everyone I pass.

Just don’t race. That way, we all get to maintain an acceptable level of decorum and all that fussing about is avoided.

trail_rat – Member

dont shout a sausage if your going to be ripping up the downhills only to be passed on the next up.

Why on earth not? 😕 Racing is done on the full course, not just on the climbs.

net time gained = zero

as you said racings done on the full course …. if you come up behind me and start bawling your head off then i pass you on the next climb you dont think thats a bit off ?

no issue with letting polite folk past but knowing the duane is an ex downhill racer like my self im just pointing out that he shouldnt expect them to move just because hes faster on the downs – you only look like a royal **** having made a commotion on the downs.

I always ask politely and try to be chatty to everyone I pass.

+1

It’s the guys that shout “elite/pro/expert rider coming through” that piss me off, like they’ve got some unwritten right for the trail ahead of them to be kept clear.

Yeah, that grates – In any case, I reckon I can tell who’s coming up behind me by how fast they approach, where they gain time on me and how much noise they make. If someone’s faster than me and they don’t say anything, I’ll usually say “I’ll let you pass as soon as there’s a space“. If they’re *really* fast (ie: battling for the lead) and there was no overtaking spot, I’d probably stop to let them through. I don’t want to mess up anyone’s race.

Politeness really does go a long way in a race though.

You don’t get the Elites yelling ‘rider’ at the Sport Men when they overtake them on the 3rd lap of the NPS, they just wait for a gap and go for it. Nor do the Sport Men shout ‘rider’ at the Elite Women when they overtake them on their last lap…

trail_rat – Member

net time gained = zero

But that’s just wrong! If you get held up on a descent, then you lose time. If you get past, then you don’t. The fact that you might not keep your lead over that one person on the climb isn’t that important. And you’re certainly far less disadvantaged letting someone pass on a decent then passing them on the climb, than they are if you delay them on a long descent.

trail_rat – Member

as you said racings done on the full course …. if you come up behind me and start bawling your head off then i pass you on the next climb you dont think thats a bit off ?

I think “bawling your head off” is always a bit off regardless of whether you repass or not. But no, you pass and get passed, passing on a climb isn’t somehow more virtuous than passing on a descent, everyone is making their time when they can.

Dive for the first hint of a gap and stiff arm your oponent into the undergrowth as you pass. If you find yourself lying in the undergrowth you lost. Simple 🙂

Crikey.

There are some on here who seem to really have a thing about being passed..

Whether you shout elite or leader or left or right it doesn’t really matter, as long as you let the other rider know your intention.

TBH if you deliberately hold someone up in a race whose obviously faster than you then you’re a complete plum & don’t be surprised if the next time you’re racing someone doesn’t give you fair warning ‘cos they know you’re a dick.

Do unto others boys…XC Racing is a small world..

original question was is the overtaking etiquette the same in XC as DH.

The answer is no.

DH is meant to be a time trial. The penalty for letting the rider behind u catch up if you have to let them overtake.

I’ve overtaken people in a XC race on a DH but in fairness it generally isnt a great place to overtake unless your sure you can it safely.

If you manage to fall off/crash over taking you’ll slow yourself down alot more than if you just stayed behind.

TBH if you deliberately hold someone up in a race whose obviously faster than you then you’re a complete plum & don’t be surprised if the next time you’re racing someone doesn’t give you fair warning ‘cos they know you’re a dick.

Do unto others boys…XC Racing is a small world..

What are you going to do? Not tell them that you are passing?

That’s going to help isn’t it.

Some one shouting ” on the left” to me tells me they are there but I don’t feel that I have to let them by on that side. I’ll pull over ASAP but not to the point of allowing them a smooth and easy line if it puts me in the bushes. I feel that this sort of annoucement of intent is most useful on the fast open stuff where there are two lines but you don’t want someone swapping lines as you pass them.

“Excuse me” gets an much more cooperative response.