So it seems my performance is becoming uncompetitive now that my max and threshold heart rates have reduced with age.

What’s your experience been post 40?

Are you still fast? If so, is it only relative to most because you used to be Elite or Expert? Never stopped training, never put on weight, never had a life break away from riding?

Or are you slowing down? Maybe to such an extent that you’re considering retiring from racing, or have already done so? Not just the upper cats, but the middle ability ones too.

I did a race on Sunday where my laps were within 40 seconds of each other but my heart rate is running between threshold and max and I just can’t give anything more. It’s bloody weird feeling like my muscles could do more but feeling too close to the red. I think this might be what mates who were top cat riders used to talk about back when we were all young.

On the plus side I could definitely get fitter and lose 10kg, but I suspect it wouldn’t make that huge a difference and I’m only getting older. Is this why most of the faces you knew gradually disappear from the XC race scene?

I didn’t start riding (and racing) until I turned 40, so I’ve no idea how fitter I could’ve been 🙂

On the plus side I could definitely get fitter and lose 10kg, but I suspect it wouldn’t make that huge a difference and I’m only getting older. Is this why most of the faces you knew gradually disappear from the XC race scene?

10kg will make a huge difference, even if you are quite lardy you are still talking of a 10% improvement in climbing ability.

The way I see it is that I’ll never be fitter in the future than I am now, but I’m happy at this level of fitness.

There are still a lot of Vets and Grand Vets turning up to Gorrick races and the don’t seem that slow.

Maybe you just have a virus or something. Stick with it for another year or until you are lost out the back all the time, or stop enjoying it.

XC racing is bloody hard, even harder as you get older. Still, that’s what the vet class is all about eh?

I have felt a bit the same with my max HR dropping to quite a bit below what it used to be, so that if I am trying to go at the same speed as before, then I am closer to max effort.

But I suspect that losing just 3 kg (never mind 10!) would make a HUGE difference to you. So maybe set yourself some goals that aren’t too far out of reach and see how you get on from there.

BTW I am probably 10 years older than you from the sounds of it. 40 is way too young to think about stopping

10KG!?! Seriously? I think that’s your answer 🙂 Try riding with / without a 10KG pack if you doubt it.

Nick Craig is the example to live up to:

Unfortunately there are no age related excuses, (also see Ned and Tinker for US examples)

or Joss Naylor

10KG would make a massive difference

in terms of power to weight it makes a BIG difference.

10kg is loads, get rid of it now!

40 at the weekend so feel I’m qualified to comment. Not as quick as I was but can still put in some good times. Not as good at the more explosive stuff but endurance is still there. And it takes me forever to warm up!

From a running background and find people move from shorter 5 and 10k races to half marathons and marathons as they get older, I did as I moved into my 30s. Think it’s sort of the same with bike racing as I now find myself doing things like road TT as opposed to short course XC.

Yes – stick at it and get some of your old fitness back/weight off, physically you’re not over the hill yet!
I used to place mid pack in Sports and Masters but can manage top 25% in Vets, the buggers are finally slowing down and letting me catch up 🙂

Stop using a heart rate monitor and worrying you might ride faster.If your legs feel fine you night be able to go faster .How did you work you heart rate settings out? 220 – your age ?which doesnt really work for anyone or did you do it technically?

Biggest challenge these days is finding the time to train and staying injury free. So many niggles and aches that would be long gone in my 20s now hang around for weeks and months. Wish I’d made more of it in my 20s!

Edit: Interesting one about HR. Now mostly train off power. Though my max HR has only dropped by 10 bpm in the past 20 years, and my threshold and ranges are pretty much the same. Just lost that little bit of top end.

I started racing at 48! In Grandads err Grand Vets now, I’m amazed at how fast some of these old fellas are, I’m mid pack and just enjoy getting out there and it makes me work on my fitness a bit more.

53 now and lost 10kg since Christmas. Performance is back to where I was 10 yrs ago !!!

Have a look at the GT7 solo results http://tweedlove.com/onthehillside/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/GT7-Solos.xls

Three masters in the top ten. I only narrowly bet a guy in his 50s. Inspirational.

Ned Overend. Legend. http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/interview-ned-overend-specialized-ambassador-18113/ .

As i get older i do find myself racing with my brain more than my legs sometimes! i.e. when you know you aren’t as fit or as capable of taking the pain as the Whipper-Snappers, you find other ways of going fast, and a lot of that is based on experience something you have to be old to have! 😉

And of course, although you generally don’t think so at the time (especially when creaking up a steep fireroad in the rain, puffing like an old shunter in a goods yard) you might just want to continue racing because you enjoy it, no matter where you finish!

I guess I was also interested in the guys who are still fast. Is it relative? Are you slow compared to when you were Elite or Expert? I’m still racing Sport here since it’s open age wise because the 40-49 year olds appear to be ex Elite/Expert from their slightly down times. But are they freaks physiologically putting in tons of training and clean living?

Ok, so please forgive the rest, you don’t have to read this or respond if it doesn’t interest you. Sorry if you consider it self indulgent, but I guess this is a bit like when some others have shared about considering giving up mountain biking or riding altogether. I’ll always ride trails I hope though.

Nothing scientific with the HR monitor, it’s relatively recent and I last had one about 10 years ago, so I’m just comparing the max and average numbers. Old to new is roughly 190 v 180 max and 177 v 165, so amazingly by the ready reckoner numbers for a 30 and 40 year old. Races and rides seem to confirm these numbers repeatedly, and hitting the max early on trying to remain competitive forces me to reign the effort back in the middle of the race. Fairly consistent lap times seems to indicate I’m gauging my effort fairly well, but I’m placing anywhere in mid third of the pack between early teens and mid twenties.

Back when I was in my late 20s I was top 5 competitive in Sport for a couple of years. I could pick up my effort, maintain it, recover, and thus race strategically. It was my muscles and the lactate that imposed the performance barrier. Nothing special cat wise I realise of course, but now just turning a harder gear or standing up to climb seems to exact too high a price sending me straight into the red, so I spin which is also hard cardiovascularly. Meanwhile my head and muscles say come on we can do more.

The other variables of course are the weight and amount of riding. I used to be 72kg which still wasn’t light for someone my height, but I used to be a sprinter and it seemed I had manage to train those fast twitch muscle fibres towards climbing. I smoked, even just before racing, and I commuted every weekday and raced once or twice a week mainly in XC or CX, but I rarely trained. Since then I’ve got as heavy as 92kg, and I’ve slowly got down to 86kg so far. I’ve had a couple of stints of not riding at all for a couple of years, and now I ride one 45km’ish trail ride per week and race maybe 4 times a year. At least I don’t smoke anymore since I had a child though.

I’m not sure I could lose the weight really. I got down to 82kg last year eating cottage cheese all the time, but it’s crept up again a bit since.

The difference from a 72kg weight to even 82kg is a MASSIVE performance limiter.

I race Elite, have done for 13 years. I used to be a steady top 5-10 rider in National Points races when 26-28 at 81kg, even got a couple of 2nd places. had top 5 at National Champs a few times.

I’m now 36, more like 86kg and struggling to break top 20’s but for some reason still keen to race. I think the added weight and slightly reduced riding/training time due to job commitments/motivation are my biggest performance limiting factors. I’m currently aiming to get the weight back off, and work has eased at the mo so able to train a bit more, hoping to pull back some of the gap.

I don’t think you can blame age, Nick Craig is Mid 40’s now but still as motivated as ever so still rides loads, and remains very fit. Of course the fact we have nearly 20 years of bike riding in the ‘system’ gives us a good base fitness.

I do feel however that the way I race has changed over the years, I used to be very explosive, could lead out at will, recover quickly, and climb quite well despite the weight disadvantage compared to other Elite riders. These days however I seem to struggle at the start and require a really long warm up to be able to start quickly. I seem to take longer to recover too, quite tired for several days after a big race which obviously cuts down on training time.

Have a read

Malcolm Elliot

Your not old.

I’m the same age as Blazin-Saddles but that’s about where the similarities end. I did officially have an Elite licence for one season when I turned senior but due to being at Uni I never used it. I’ve never been ‘fast’ in the sense of consistent race winner, and I’ve never had any explosive turn of speed. I’ve always been a diesel and in the past have only done well on days that suited that style of riding, i.e. when it’s very muddy. I now race in Masters for MTB and have found that my style of riding has come more into its own (3 podiums in 3 races this season), now that we’re all getting older there’s less of the attacking and it’s more a case of pacing well and riding strongly for the entire race. I’m not actually any slower than I was 10 years ago (power data backs this up) but I do expect to see a decline over the next few years. I can’t fit in any more training than I do already so it’ll be a case of managing that decline, but I doubt I’ll lose any top end as there isn’t any to lose 🙂
I’ve always said that I’ll stop racing when I stop enjoying it. But then doing well is part of the enjoyment. In MTB I guess that’ll be before my main passion (cyclocross) as you can get away with less training for CX and still be fairly competitive.

Didn’t Lewis King pass all the Masters at the first round of the Nationals last year racing in the Vets who set off 3 minutes behind?

I definitely take longer to recover now and take aaaaaages to warm up, but I think (when I’m fit) I’m not a million miles away from where I was 5 years ago. I have more experience so I don’t set off like a stabbed rat and also seem to know what my body is doing better than I did – when to push, when to recover.

I imagine at the sharp end of Elite its much more noticeable but Oil Beckingsale doesn’t seem to be slowing down much

Ride twice a week?

More likely to be a recovery/virus/over training/volume issue than a sudden reduction in aerobic capacity.

The ability to recover goes down far more quickly with age (tell me about it) than overall potential fitness.

Train with this in mind. Maybe drop a longer steady state training session for some intervals, etc.

due to being at Uni I never used it.

What a waste! I was at my fittest at uni!

Didn’t Lewis King pass all the Masters at the first round of the Nationals last year racing in the Vets who set off 3 minutes behind?

Almost, he was faster than all of them. Masters is quite cyclical though – periodically the top few shuffle off to elite, and it gets sensible, then they come back and it goes stupid!

To answer the OPs question, many (but not all) of the top vets presently were excellent riders back in the day, but quite frankly… I think you’re looking to blame your age when there are plenty of other reasons you don’t win XC races.

What a waste! I was at my fittest at uni!

I’d raced at a high-ish level on road and MTB as a junior (Peter Buckleys, NPS) and I just needed a break. I ended up ticking over for a few years but didn’t get back onto it properly until I was 24.
So you’re probably right in hindsight but at the time it was the right thing to do.

How about a curveball. Try Mini DH or DH racing far more about technique than fitness and far more fun than xc racing anyway! You even get an uplift on the bigger events.

Thanks for the replies.

So let’s assume I drop 10kg, which would likely involve training and a better diet, but those HR numbers are ballpark. Does anyone have experience of competing well within similar limits, of losing the weight and changing the lifestyle? Is there any prospect of raising them back up a bit?

Maybe I havent expressed it well but the comparison between places is not because it’s unlikely that I’ll ever win again, but because I’m no longer riding in a competive manner. It just seems steady state, no attack, no response, so the experience lacks as much fun, challenge, and achievement. I’d like to ride well and feel strong, to feel chased and be chasing.

What’s for sure though is that I should make some lifestyle changes and do things differently. On that score I don’t think I’m going to get much empathy from those who’ve always lived like that. Since I don’t have any history of training maybe I’ll throw some money at giving myself a jump start with a personal trainer, find something new to do as well, and consider those meal suppliers to replace the bought lunches and take outs.

First question from me i guess is

“are you training as hard, long and consistently as 10 years ago” ?

Ignore your HR in races, it’s pointless. That’d be a good start.
Be honest with yourself, if you can’t compete and you need to be near the front in order to enjoy it, then you either need to sort your training and diet out or stop doing it. It sounds like you think you should still be where you were years ago but you just aren’t doing the groundwork to achieve it.

And I’ve been worrying i’m passed it at 30!

Since I don’t have any history of training maybe I’ll throw some money at giving myself a jump start

I’ve thrown money at the ‘problem’ – it’s not the answer. The way to get faster is train LOTS, hurt yourself on a regular basis and put the effort in.

And I’ve been worrying i’m passed it at 30!

You are in your prime! Make the most of it 🙂

The words I’ve been wanting to hear. I’ve been thinking I’ll never get the chance to compete properly. My urge to ride my bike is stronger than its ever been.

Just need to put that training plan into motion….

I’ve never really trained, I just used to ride and race frequently.

I don’t watch the HR at all during the race, I’m just reviewing it afterwards as I do after a ride.

Memory of previous (limited) ability is a problem, especially since the last stint where I didn’t ride at all for a few years and probably lost most of my base.

I think I’ve already clarified that I don’t expect to be top 10 anymore, but I would like to feel like I’m riding competively within my race within a race wherever in the field that might be. But yes, as I’ve acknowledged, I need to take some steps if I hope to realise that desire.

It should be interesting, and I guess I’m fortunate that I can afford now to do something about it when previously I didn’t even really have to try.

I’ve also bought a trail bike recently and a load of new more technical trails have just gone into the area I usually ride.

I used to be 72kg which still wasn’t light for someone my height, but I used to be a sprinter and it seemed I had manage to train those fast twitch muscle fibres towards climbing. I smoked, even just before racing, and I commuted every weekday and raced once or twice a week mainly in XC or CX, but I rarely trained. Since then I’ve got as heavy as 92kg, and I’ve slowly got down to 86kg so far. I’ve had a couple of stints of not riding at all for a couple of years, and now I ride one 45km’ish trail ride per week and race maybe 4 times a year. At least I don’t smoke anymore since I had a child though.

I’m not sure I could lose the weight really. I got down to 82kg last year eating cottage cheese all the time, but it’s crept up again a bit since.

So if 72kg was not light for your height, and you’re at 82kg now that implies at least 10kg overweight. How tall are you BTW?

5’7″, so well overweight according to BMI, but it’s not noticeable to most and I don’t have a gut.

I’d be getting help to get started. Perhaps my trail rides are too far for me at present, for example. I think I need some guidance and probably some gym work before I can look after my own training.

I didn’t start racing until I was over 35 and was probably at my fittest when I was around 40. When I was 49 and racing against 40 year olds the difference seemed huge, now I’m 56 I’m afraid I’ve lost the urge to push myself like I used to (but there are other factors involved too).

being competitive takes a lot of training.

not to be harsh but you ride once a week and are seriously overweight. your not going to win anything. I’m not sure age has much to do with it tbh.

If your enjoying it then no issue – i’m happy racing midfield. if you want to get better then you need to ride more and drop weight.

I’d start by trying to get in three rides a week: stick with the 45km ride at a ‘social’ pace. one set of intervals, get in some hard work. and one threshold ride, try and work moderately hard for sustained periods. do that for 6 weeks and you’ll see a big improvement.