Obviously you haven’t met the shop floor staff who decline O/T answering “theres little point in working O/T as it goes in taxes”.

Are they correct though?

Can you explain to me what situation means that earning more gross doesn’t mean more net? I can’t think of one, but I’m happy to be corrected. Perhaps something to do with tax credits?

No I wouldn’t mind…. WHEN…

1. They close the corporate tax loopholes.
2. They close the tax avoidance loopholes (I’m sure there are more companies like “Icebreaker” to invest in)
3. They stop giving out millions to 3rd world, and not to 3rd world (India) countries.

Are they correct though?

Can you explain to me what situation means that earning more gross doesn’t mean more net? I can’t think of one, but I’m happy to be corrected. Perhaps something to do with tax credits?

They don’t understand how income tax works, which is often the most common reason I hear.

“if I earn more, and get bumped up into the 40% bracket, I’ll get taxed 40% on EVERYTHING” (Not just 40% on the amount above the threshold)

I had a recruitment consultant try to tell me that I’d take home more on a lower wage than on a wage just over the 40% threshold 🙄 Idiot!

I had a recruitment consultant try to tell me that I’d take home more on a lower wage than on a wage just over the 40% threshold Idiot!

😆

Are they correct though?

Can you explain to me what situation means that earning more gross doesn’t mean more net? I can’t think of one, but I’m happy to be corrected. Perhaps something to do with tax credits?

Grips, I think Junky might be correct. The real grips has been kidnapped by the Rylan Star League to defend the galaxy against the Ko-Dan Empire and a Troll has been left here, in Grips place.

Anyway, if you think I’m now going to enter into a 5 day BS-athon with you. Think again ! Its not even subtle, what you posted there. Tax credits. Jeez !
🙄

Interesting mix of positives and negatives.

What’s also interesting is nearly everyone’s looking very much at their own personal bubble, and not at the bigger picture (please excuse the marketing metaphor). Nothing wrong with that – we all need to eat at the end of the day – but interesting that a lot of the public spending we are paying out for with our taxes were set-up after WW2 when there was an understandable greater sense of ‘us’.

Also interesting that the tax-dodgers are being bought up a lot. Realistically, how much do you think they have ‘taken’ from the big tax pot? Is it enough that it’s justifiable to close the loopholes and potentially lose the multi-national’s business, or would we be better off tackling something else, such as benefit fraud or cutting overseas aid?

Anyway, if you think I’m now going to enter into a 5 day BS-athon with you. Think again ! Its not even subtle, what you posted there. Tax credits. Jeez !

It’s a fair question though. If you’re (not specifically you, Solo) on an hourly wage that takes you into the 40% tax bracket for doing a bit of overtime, then, fag packet (or in my case, back of a piece of parquet) maths tells me you’re on approaching £20/hour. How does doing a bit of overtime make it “all go on taxes”?

Anyway, if you think I’m now going to enter into a 5 day BS-athon with you

Honestly, I’m not. I’m not trolling – I’m asking questions because I don’t know. I’ve never dealt with the tax credit system so I’ve no idea how it works.

Is there a situation where working overtime doesn’t actually result in more net income?

Also interesting that the tax-dodgers are being bought up a lot. Realistically, how much do you think they have ‘taken’ from the big tax pot?
Shirley they can’t take, what they haven’t paid in ?

However, the more visceral issue for some is the obsession with public services. Some folk appear to believe that to fund these services should be beyond question and that we will all just have to dig a little deeper into our pockets to continue to provide increasingly costly services. Again, I ask the pro tax bunch whether there might ever be a limit on how much money should be spent on services.
Alas, no answer yet… So one can only assume that the answer is “no” and that the sky will be the limit when is comes to funding and the taxes required to pay for it.
Furthermore, I wonder how many of the pro-tax bunch, work in the public sector.
😕

bold comments Solo.

Is there a situation where working overtime doesn’t actually result in more net income?

It was said in the past that this could happen but I don’t think so now – this seems to help explain quite well

Fair pay matters, but so do tax credits

Again, I ask the pro tax bunch whether there might ever be a limit on how much money should be spent on services.

That appears to be a rhetorical question.

Do go on. 🙂

How does doing a bit of overtime make it “all go on taxes”?
I’m quoting the folk I’ve dealt with.
This translates into “Throwing away a Saturday, on flat rate, which is still subject to tax, doesn’t give me any incentive to work O/T“
So, obviously, if they do work O/T, they get a little extra, but in my view, these are line workers, shop floor staff. They ain’t on massive incomes as it is. Now making them go claim back some WTC is almost a slap in the face.

bold comments Solo.
Whatever, I’m just asking if there is or should be a limit to funding how big the state becomes and what it provides.

We all have to weigh up our free time vs being paid overtime, this is fine. But it’s not true that working overtime doens’t get you any extra money, does it?

You don’t seem to have a valid grievance in this case. Working overtime does in fact get you more money. It may or may not be worth it to you, but that’s a different issue.

I’m quoting the folk I’ve dealt with.
This translates into “Throwing away a Saturday, on flat rate, which is still subject to tax, doesn’t give me any incentive to work O/T[/i]“
So, obviously, if they do work O/T, they get a little extra, but in my view, these are line workers, shop floor staff. They ain’t on massive incomes as it is. Now making them go claim back some WTC is almost a slap in the face.

Sounds like your business needs to increase its flexibility and ability to respond to big orders or clear backlog by incentivising its/your staff with a proper overtime rate.

Overtime, on a weekend at flat rate? That’s the problem not the tax. I’d be thinking a third on top for saturday and another third for it being overtime might make your shop floor workers less inclined to worry about still paying the same rate of income tax on it.

[edit] qute a few years since I worked in overalls on a factory floor but even the agency scum got proper overtime rates ( at least 50% on top) when they went over 40 hours and that really was a hard offer to turn down!

You don’t seem to have a valid grievance in this case
Wrong, its not me, its the people I’ve spoken to. Go lecture them.
However, I’m still not sold on the idea of a limitless tax take, in the name of, well, anything.

Sounds like your business needs
Wrong also, not me gov, its not my company.

However, I am amused that someone might suggest business might be to blame for why the tax take could be higher, if a business was run better, for that purpose. Wow !
😯

Wrong, its not me, its the people I’ve spoken to. Go lecture them.

I think someone’s getting a bit mixed up.

I think someone’s getting a bit mixed up.
Grips, this is what I mean with you these days.

If you CBA to read the entire thread, then ok. However, to tax folk, to increase taxation without limit or question is not for me. Some folk think they would like to pay more tax. I ain’t one of them, to continue to hit-up the tax payer to fund increasingly costly public services is some shit that’s really getting old.
This seemingly unwritten rule that we should never say no to or question the increased costs of Public Services is something that needs to stop. Likewise, increasing taxation for those who educate for longer or who could work more hours, seems to me to be in danger of turning people away from doing O/T or getting that degree. If you work hard for it, then you should receive some kind of reward and not just the knowledge that you’ve funded a pay rise for someone in the public sector. I need to live too and I need my wages to do this.

Shall we have an alternative thread ?
Do Members of Parliament work in the public sector ? do they work for us ? who’d fund a tax increase for the MPs then ?

Bye.
🙂

Solo, I am not suggesting higher taxes. I am responding to your posts about overtime ( i even quoted those bits in case you forgot what it was you said) then i was suggesting that it is unwise of you to expect staff to do overtime at flat rate, and foolish to think that the employees’ poor understanding of tax is the only barrier to them agreeing to do overtime. I also pointed a business that had no problem getting overtime by paying extra for it (and presumably passing those costs on to the customer in some way eg “priority order” rate or in my case it would have been cost to the wholesaler and customer of each individual unit) . I don’t really have an opinion on raising the tax take by paying staff more in the first place, sorry if it sounded if i did.

Tbf your posts made it sound like if it was not your business then you at least held a position that led you to ask (unsuccessfully) the shop floor workers to do overtime. What was it you were doing job-wise whilst asking them this?

I am responding to your posts about overtime
I posted other people’s thoughts on the matter, people I have spoken with and listened to. Their words indicate to me that they feel they pay enough tax, they feel no need to work to pay more tax, especially in a trade off against family time, cycling, whatever. At least until Xmas comes around…

So, cheers, but I’ve got to go now.

they feel no need to work to pay more tax, especially in a trade off against family time, cycling, whatever

That’s perfectly reasonable, but it’s most definitely not what you originally said 🙂

This seemingly unwritten rule that we should never say no to or question the increased costs of Public Services is something that needs to stop.

Lol.. what? How on Earth can you suggest that the cost of public services is not discussed?! It’s on the news ALL THE TIME.

If you work hard for it, then you should receive some kind of reward and not just the knowledge that you’ve funded a pay rise for someone in the public sector.

Hah.. what’s wrong with funding payrises for people in the public sector? They work like hell saving lives, teaching your kids and doing all the shit that needs doing to run the coutry and give you and easy life, and they get paid a pittance for it. So most of them need pay rises. Maybe, just maybe, you could cnosider that having to downgrade your next bit of MTB bling might be worth it if some other HARD WORKING person doesn’t have to live hand to mouth, or isn’t grossly overworked.

This is fun. Fifty pence says despite his reservations about monster lefty argu-threads, solo can’t leave this one alone. (He left the thread twice in ten minutes just up there 😀 )

I don’t know about tax hikes, but from his posts It looks like what solo’s educated hard working folk need is is cuts in tuition fees and reintroduction of grants, as well as proper legislation about hours worked for people paid per year not per hour, and proper overtime payments. 😯

Also consider that the rationalisation of public sector has its impact on income tax take as so much of its overall expenditure is on the salaries of the people that do stuff. You spend less on your public service then yes you take less income tax but you save even more on salaries, but you need to make sure the impact is not taken up in a more costly way by failings and reliance on another public service (eg gp services and ambulance/a&e), or stored up for later stings in the tail eg pfi projects.

You spend the same money on a firm that provides same service but makes a profit and you need to make sure that the profit is taxed as effectively as the wages they are no longer paying (whether that is cuts in staff numbers or what you pay them).

And you need to make sure that the firm in question is not going to need to bailed out by the local authority or similar who commissioned them to do the job and still has the ultimate responsibility to provide the service, and that by working so narrowly ‘to brief’ that the company doing the job does not cause extra costs to other areas. (This has been a problem in health and social care since as long as i can remember to be fair to the present government though)

But if you sack all those lazy bastard public sector workers, and contract it out to companies like G4S, Capita and Serco who employ people on lower pay with worse T&C’s then we save a load of money and get a better service. As every privatisation has proved!

Oh….. Wait…… Hang on a minute……

Unfortunately they probably employ the same set of “lazy bastard” workers.

G4S.

😆

Ssssssshhhhh don’t ruin it for me! He’s really selling me this whole low tax Tory utopia deal! It sounds great! Now if we can just get rid of poor people, and the disabled, and any other drains on the public purse, just imagine the lifestyle we could all be living FFS!!!!!

I’d definitely have enough for a Carbon Santa Cruz. I’m voting for Dave!