So I have a long history of badgering this forum with questions and tales of woe regarding my lower back, pretty standard fare in the grand scheme of things, 30 year old desk jockey suffers herniated disc, recovers, returns to active life with minimal time off work (4 days in last 4 years…).

However I’ve since got a mortgage and tried to apply for Life Insurance/Critical Illness and Income Protection. The best policy I’ve found so far includes a blanket exclusion to both my critical illness and income protection for:

any disorder or injury to the spine, its intervertebral discs, joints, nerve roots, spinal cord or supporting musculature or ligaments and any neurological complications. This exclusion shall only apply to claims under the Total and Permanent Disability clause in the policy.

Now IANAD but this seems to be a massive exclusion, especially since I would guess that a significant proportion of healthy people who become totally or permanently disabled probably become so due to back injuries etc.

I don’t think they’re exluding this from my life insurance, i.e. my mortgage still gets paid if I die from something back related, but not if I end up disabled etc.

I’m inclined to dismiss it but my broker is saying he really doesn’t think it’s such a big deal, what does STW think? 😕

Is it a clause added specifically because of your previous condition?

I’m busy working with the Spinal Injuries Association at the moment and getting ongoing care out of the NHS is hard – really hard. If it could be covered by an insurance policy such as this, I’d look for one that can.

Rachel

I assume so, my wife didn’t have any exclusion to her policies.

Obviously I would be fine if they just excluded cover for future herniated discs, but to suggest my previous herniated disc means I’m a higher risk for snapping my spine in a car accident seems ridiculous, if anything I’d suggest I’m a lower risk as I’m now attending pilates and yoga twice a week to prevent further disc issues!

Most will have a clause for Pre-existing conditions won’t they?

I was reading the policy booklet for our company’s critical illness cover. Makes for bloody cheery reading of an afternoon that does! 🙁

[edit]just had a look back and the only exclusion (apart from pre-existing) is “Self inflicted injury”.

Yeah – my old company’s private medical seemed to cover every condition under the sun, except the one I actually needed treatment for. Typical!

Rachel

Hi i do this for a living, some companies will and some might not the easiest way for someone to deal with this is to ping an email to all of the providers underwriters and see how they deal with it individually, if you have someone dealing with it for you ask them to do that if not i can help you, at least once you have spoken to everyone you will know who will offer the best terms. pm if you want me to talk you through it.

Thanks Paulo, my broker is now doing this, sounds like he’s working to a similar playbook as yourself.

Will see what comes of it.

nothing may come of it, but worth a shot. Just as an addition make sure your policies are placed into trust,Lots of firms don’t do it but it’s massively important when it comes to family’s recieving a payout quickly and without paying tax, should the worst happen.

I had a reasonable initial quote from L&G for cover but as soon as I mentioned migraine and a successful spinal fusion 2 years ago, the quote skyrocketed and I told them to sod off.

Total Permanent Disability is one of the ‘sweep up’ benefits on a Critical illness policy. The benefit pays if you are totally and permanently disabled, which can be very hard to achieve when you read the wording. It also can operate of two different definitions of occupation – either your own occupation or a list of “work tasks”. If you’re a desk jockey it should be Own occupation, but check.

The exclusion on Income Protection is probably more of a risk to be honest.

A prolapsed disc is likely to be an exclusion in most providers for these benefits for a period. 2 year symptom free might get you standard rates if you hadnt had time off work, but you are probably looking at 5 years or maybe 10 for some.

Having the cover is more important and the vast majority of CI claims are for cancer. If you are symptom free you can always look to rebroke it in a couple of years and your adviser will get another wedge of commission too.

Don’t go for critical illness cover.

We don’t have it and never have had (first mortgage at 20 y/o, now 52 y/o).

Don’t go for critical illness cover.

We don’t have it and never have had (first mortgage at 20 y/o, now 52 y/o).

My friend who got cancer of the lymph nodes in his late 20s and was off work for 2 years; my friend who got breast cancer and was off work for a year in her early 40s and would have lost her house without CI; my friend who had a mountain bike accident and lost the use of his legs and most of his upper body in his late 30s with 2 young kids would all disagree with you. My friend who died of breast cancer age 39 leaving a 3 year old behind would disagree with you but she can’t but her family for whom critical illness insurance made a massive difference for her last months probably would.

It’s one of those policies you pay into and hope like hell it’s a waste of money.

I would be looking around to see if there are alternatives if possible. As an active person I would imagine your risk of this is higher than most.

It’s insurance and for us it would’ve been a total waste of money, at least with Life Insurance it’s relatively cheap (circa £10pcm for £100k when younger).

A bit like pet insurance, we’ve two dogs and a horse, never paid insurance for any of them. We’re tens of thousands up so far (one dog is 10 y/o and the horse we’ve had 12 years).

But that’s just us.

br +1 if you insure absolutely everything you’ll very soon have no money to live off and yes i have had 2 friends who died of cancer young and another who was paralysed in a bike accident

A bit like pet insurance, we’ve two dogs and a horse, never paid insurance for any of them. We’re tens of thousands up so far (one dog is 10 y/o and the horse we’ve had 12 years).

But that’s just us.

In principle I would agree with you about not insuring everything but I think CI is different. £4K for a pet operation – I can live with that and if need be get a loan and pay it off afterwards. I’m still earning and all is (mostly) well in the world. With CI the point at which you claim you are at your most vulnerable. Your ability to earn has just been taken away, your needs have increased and no one in your right mind is going to give you a loan. The amounts of money involved are also at another level. The two are just not comparable. Of course most (thankfully) will not get to use it and those who didn’t spend on it get to feel smug about the money they have saved. For me I guess dependents or lack of is probably a big driver one way or another.

I have the same clause in my income protection.

I have additional injury cover from totally sports insurance who insure you for fixed amounts per injury.

It’s tricky but without paying up a lot more upfront you are not likely to be covered.

dufusdip, that’s interesting and useful perspective, plus with a family history of (surviving…) cancer perhaps I should be considering things like that more than the less likely circumstances.

Am awaiting some more quotes but will drill deeper into the definitions of ‘total and permanent’ etc. etc.

In principle I would agree with you about not insuring everything but I think CI is different. £4K for a pet operation – I can live with that and if need be get a loan and pay it off afterwards. I’m still earning and all is (mostly) well in the world. With CI the point at which you claim you are at your most vulnerable. Your ability to earn has just been taken away, your needs have increased and no one in your right mind is going to give you a loan. The amounts of money involved are also at another level. The two are just not comparable. Of course most (thankfully) will not get to use it and those who didn’t spend on it get to feel smug about the money they have saved. For me I guess dependents or lack of is probably a big driver one way or another. [/I]

If one of our dogs needed a £4k operation, it’d but put down and we’d get another (even quality spaniels’ are cheap here, £35 donation for the last one).

But the issue is still the same, how much is your CI vs likely use/benefit?