Hi

I own a Whyte T-130s (front fork extended to 140mm, rear shock is 130mm). I have Conti Trail King’s F2.4 / R2.2 on it. Great bike, I love it.

I do a mix of casual/recreational XC riding (15miles) and visits to my local bike park.

I have to admit, I struggle to keep up with the group I go XC riding with (suss locked out).

Would I benefit from having a 29er XC hardtail with 2.2 tyre F and R. Would I notice much improvement in my ability to keep up or do I simply need to spend more hours getting fitter?

Depends how much training you already do, compared with the xc group. A 29er isnt a magic bullet

You would benefit from getting fitter.

What bikes are your pals riding on these XC rides?

Getting fitter will make the biggest difference…

but if this is really n+ 1 justification to buy a new bike go for it .

Would I notice much improvement in my ability to keep up or do I simply need to spend more hours getting fitter?

I think you already know the answer if you really think about it!

Small group of riders on a mix of 29 and 27.5 bikes, all hardtails.

I guess I was just looking for a greater advantage as I’m struggling more than the others. Just not sure if one would differ that much to what I already have (and wasting my money).

(Plus bigwill’s comment might be exposing my inner desire too!! Lol!!) 😉

If you’ve got the money and feel like it, then do it – always nice to have different types of bike. It might make you slightly quicker on the climbs, it’ll probably feel better up them – but then you’ll be slower on the way down.

I once set a PB at Cwncarn on my XC bike. I went back on my trail bike shortly after and I was 2 mins slower on the climb and 2 mins quicker on the rest of it.

group I go XC riding with

important to have fun with the group and not “struggling” to keep up.

Full suspension trail bike 27.5″: I try to use mine as often as possible. Of the bikes I have: this 130/130 bike is the fastest on the trail… I like the bike for going “up and downhill”.
Uphill: much more traction than the hardtail…

My 29″ hardtail, 2.25 inch tires: I use that only for really “long (much more than 15 mi) and easy” tours. Forest roads. And downhill, on these forest roads: there the bike is definitely faster than the 27.5 inch full suspension bike.

But fun?
If I didn’t had the 29 inch bike I wouldn’t miss it…

Your mtb group: possible to get your friends riding more demanding trails…?
They would soon end up with 27.5 trail bikes..?
😉

Thanks guys. Some thoughtful advice.

Swap bikes with one of your mates for 10 minutes and see if it feels much easier, and if you like it.

Personally I don’t see any downsides to having another bike, especially if you already have a ready-made use for it.

Maybe try a bit of XC racing as well?

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but tyres will make a big difference. The difference in rolling resistance between a pair of trail kings and an xc tyre could easily be 30W of wasted power.

If you like to risk only 0.5 k:

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/mountain-bikes/voodoo-bizango-29er-mountain-bike-2016

Bizango in winter sale.
Great bike.
But: move from hardtail to full suspension is easy.
The other way: difficult to say if you will like it…

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but tyres will make a big difference

Indeed, that’s what I was going to say! Winter tyres are so slow compared to my 29er Racing Ralph’s!

oops double post!

Tires and bike weight make a huge differance after fitness . Im much faster on my carbon cube xc bike with 2.2in xc tires and 100mm fork than i am on my steel hardcore hardtail with 2.5 in trail tires and 150mm fork . The xc bike wieghs 20ib though where as my steel hardcore hardtail is 31Ib with slacker geo. i still leave the cube at home most rides , i love my steel hardtail.

I can ride harder for longer on the cube and climb much better/faster but the steel bike is so much fun and better for downhill and jumping.

I made the mistake once of taking my hardcore hardtail on a xc group ride with some roadie buddies , next time im taking the xc bike as that was hard work lol

Both my bikes are 27.5 , im short and dont like 29ers

I would say yes as well. The whyte bikes are not really light, my xc carbon hardtail is probably 9lbs lighter than my whyte t129rs. It will be quicker on everything except on really rough stuff.

I have a carbon xc, giant anthem and whyte t129. They are in order of light to heavy, and in order of how fast I can complete a lap of the marin. Now CYB is i different matter though!

Otherwise just spend a lot of time riding and building fitness.

Faster tyres will make a good bit of difference to keeping up, and you don’t want to have to swap them all the time. Plus another bike is always good.
Without knowing more details I can’t comment on more detail, bit of course if you get fitter it’ll be easier, but if it gets a bit easier it sounds like you’d do it more and get fitter! ??

I have that Whyte and a Voodoo Bizango. I’d say it depends, if you lose a few pounds and get fitter that would help a lot. It will be lighter, but I’d say fitness is more crucial tbh. However if you can afford it then go for it! As Chakaping says, borrow your mates and see if you notice a difference? Good luck and enjoy!..

i bought a ‘new’ geometry full sus last summer and love it. however as the winter progressed i got fed up spending half an hour cleaning it each time i rode.
so i got a 29 hardtail. it is easier to maintain, quick on the flats, the ups and great fun on the way down. maybe just not able to swallow the big tech lines, and not just as forgiving. worth getting a modern geometry frame and a 120-130 fork

Of course you need a hardtail. Why are you even asking?!?!??! 😉

Ps also have Racing Ralphs, they are nice and quick whilst still being grippy if it isnt muddy, but fragile! Prob ideal for xc stuff..

Second/third the comments on riding on quicker tyres. That is what I would try first. Some experimenting with a faster rear at first will be worth it.

I have sold my full susser (Giant Trance X) and now have two hard tails – one ‘hardcore’ one with big travel, the other an XC bike. I never use the xc bike much, because the other bike isn’t more fun and my riding t8me is limited.

If the tyres don’t make a difference, then have a look. There re some amazing hardtails out there for xc these days and if I rode more I am sure I would I be out on my 10year old xc bike more.

The difference in climbing times between my 6″ trail bike and 3″ XC bike is only about 5%. The difference between being tired and being fresh and well conditioned is 10% or more. The difference between coming back from several years of no riding and a year of regular riding was about 20%.

1. Ride as much as you can and get fitter.
2. Make sure you are well rested and eat plenty the night before and morning of the ride.
3. Try to borrow an XC bike and see if it makes much difference.

Definitely fitness is top, but I’d never dissuade anyone from getting another, different bike. If the 15 miler is not technical, I’d be tempted with a cross bike as a real differentiator.

Alternative if 1 bike is it – posh light wheels (carbon?) with Racing Ralphs / Ikons – tubeless – will likely give you a decent boost too. Saves tyre faffing, fit the wheels for the conditons, slacken and reset the brake callipers and off you go. My road bike is a cross bike and I do this with a super light road set and a beefier set for cross.

Depends on terrain and conditions. For a fairly pure, mile-munching XC ride in winter I’d expect a 29er hardtail on winter tyres to help you keep up a little more, if that’s what everyone else is on.

I’ve got a cannondale F29 hardtail with lefty I am looking to sell for about the price of that voodoo.

On a technical hilly natural trail ride I am about 4 hours on my 150mm travel full suss and 40 minutes quicker for a similar amount of effort on my carbon xc 29er. I reckon it is less to do with weight and more to do with stiffness off the frame and not losing power at the back wheel. The XC bike is mightily unforgiving though, you feel every rock my back much prefers full suss. The carbon XC also requires much more concentration on quick rocky descents or I’m off.

I’ll be looking to pick up a second hand XC 29’er with 2.2 racing Ralph’s (tubeless) then!! 😉

Possibly even carbon!

Thanks all.

Is your FS low geared? If you increased the chainring size could you still winch yourself up the hills?

One of my mates is on a light XC bike and when it’s just the two of us I just couldn’t keep up on the flat and uphill sections – this was when using 32 x 11/42 XT. Basically, I just couldn’t find a comfortable cadence.

I moved to 34 x 10/50 and that spread of gears really helped. I’m still not as quick but it definitely helped close the gap. Might be in my mind though!

Maybe have a look at the Boardman pro 29er secondhand, they were very well specced with good trail/xc geometry and can be had quite cheaply.

Worth a wheel upgrade.