Working from home / closing local office

Chat Forum

Working from home / closing local office

49 posts & 30 voices | Started 4 months ago by theotherjonv | Latest reply from StefMcDef

Tags:

No tags yet.

Pages: 12 Next »

theotherjonv - Member

I've been working for the same company for the last 15 years. 10 years ago we bought another company that also had a uk premises and after a couple of years we sold our premises and amalgamated into the one location. This put my commute beyond a reasonable distance / time and as a result I moved to be closer to work. The company contributed at the time to legal fees / moving costs which was great but to be commutable i had to move to a more expensive area and take on a bigger mortgage.

Now we have just been bought out and the writing is on the wall for our premises, with the company intending that anyone who 'can' should work from home offices. My role is such that I could in theory but the reality is that i'm working on a kitchen table surrounded by the wife's home baking business, the kids from school at 3pm, etc. OK every now and then, but not every day.

What options do i have? Can the company 'force' me to home work, or do they need to provide a space - even a local Regus space for example? The other option is to install a garden office but that would cost around £10K which i don't have, and I don't want to remortgage to get it because then I'd lose the great mortgage deal i already have in place. I'm not expecting the company to buy me a home office, even though it would probably be cheap compared to the existing office closure costs but can they give me an low / interest free loan for example.

i realise that this is a discussion I need to have with them too, but wondered what the collective wisdom of cyclists would say on the matter before i broach the subject.

Posted 4 months ago #
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

Jesus wept. For one, I'd never move away from family and friends for a job - must be a bloody good job? I was in a similar situation 3 years ago and did 140 miles round trip each day (on their fuel and M6 Toll tag), rather than move to the West Midlands. Secondly, I'd say the writing is on the wall. Leave now, or stick it out working at home under less than ideal conditions and hang our for the redundancy.

Posted 4 months ago #
freeagent - Member

There is no way i'd ever move for a job, not unless it suited my families ambitions or plans.
I'd get out now, but that is because i'm arrogant enough to think i'd soon get another job..

Posted 4 months ago #
fubar - Member

What options do i have

Redundancy / New Job ?

Posted 4 months ago #
jimbobrighton - Member

www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

You're answering a different issue to the question.

I don't / didn't have to move away from family for a job. In fact, my first move away from home was as a single man to take the job 15 years ago. The second move, when we changed premises was only about 8 miles, but it got me the other side of two big traffic jams and thus saved about 45 mins a day of commuting time, but didn't put me significantly further away from my parents at that time, or my wife / children (who weren't born yet anyway).

The question is that they want to shut the office and get us to work from home. Can they ask me to do that if I don't have the space to set up a seperate home office? Or are they obliged to support me either in an office space of some sort or in creating an office space at home for me.

Nowhere does it say i want to leave, in fact the opposite, I like the company and job. But i don't want to be forced to invest £10K of my own money to be able to work comfortably either. I don't want to take a new job when i have 16 years of accrued service here. Redundancy is not being suggested as even vaguely likely for the group i work in, but another dept at our site will be closed and then there is no need for the (specialist) premises with the attached offices in which i work; hence the chance to close it all and get the rest of us into home offices. But if they force a significant change in my working circumstances does that create a situation where redundancy would have to become an option?

Posted 4 months ago #
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

The second move, when we changed premises was only about 8 miles, but it got me the other side of two big traffic jams and thus saved about 45 mins a day of commuting time

This put my commute beyond a reasonable distance / time and as a result I moved to be closer to work. The company contributed at the time to legal fees / moving costs which was great but to be commutable i had to move to a more expensive area and take on a bigger mortgage.

Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding part of your post (forget the working from home bit for a minute), I think you really need to get a grip on reality.

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

I think the answer is yes they can ask, or at least it used to be. Your current contract/position is redundant and they have a responsibility to find you an alternative position. Usually this would be to the new office, but in your case that new office is in your home. The key would be what happens with your contract as the conditions are changing and I assume that they are assuming that in the current climate they have the upper hand.
It's a long time since I have worked with this stuff, so I could be wrong.
Speak to a professional tomorrow.

Posted 4 months ago #
cinnamon_girl - Member

So would they expect you to become self-employed? Would they be prepared to pay for you to rent an office somewhere?

Having experienced my ex working from home, I felt that family life was being encroached upon. It's a home, not an office. I became quite resentful, apart from losing a bedroom, but it's actually more than that.

It can be quite isolating, missing out on office banter etc.

Posted 4 months ago #
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

BTW, if they force you into an impossible position, then constructive dismissable is an option. Personally, I'd love to have been given the opportunity to work from my kitchen table when I was travelling 140 miles a day in middle management.

Posted 4 months ago #
druidh - Member

Back to the OP. It doesn't look (by actually reading your post) that they're even considering redundancy, so this is all about cost-savings for them?

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

OK, I understand that, but I work in a relatively specialist industry and I don't have an unlimited supply of employers / locations. It was my decision to move to save me 90 mins a day in the car, but in doing so it meant moving closer to london and hence increased house prices. My choice, my reality, i accept that.

If I packed in working for the company today I'd likely have to move a significant distance away to stay in the industry, or try my chances in a different industry, hence I don't really want to leave them; however if I could get a 16 year redundancy settlement due to changed circumstances that could be viable.

So that's my reality. Ignore whether my values or 'grip on reality' differs from yours, that's just how it is. The question is a simple one, can i be 'forced' to work from home?

Posted 4 months ago #
tails - Member

Hi I design garden offices, if your technically minded you could knock one up yourself.

Do you 100% have no home option not even a broom cupboard? Could the garage be converted?

If the above is no, would something like this work http://www.vitra.com/en-gb/office/products/playns/splash/ perhaps even chuck a screen in to add to your privacy. You could even get an Korean/Japanese paper wall divider. They the company should pay for this plus internet and phone.

As someone who has been there 16 years perhaps ask about them paying for a garden office or a proportion of it?

Everyone else he only asked a question why so cranky?

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

It doesn't look (by actually reading your post) that they're even considering redundancy, so this is all about cost-savings for them?

Exactly. My role / dept is carrying on largely untouched, but the site itself has a technical centre on it which has potential to be closed. If that goes, the associated offices will be about 1/3 full. It's unlikely they would / could re-rent the spare space, hence best to sell it all. And the remaining folks on site.....

Some of us would like to continue to work in a shared location, for various reasons, others would prefer home offices. It seems the new co prefers the latter as that would be the cheapest.

Posted 4 months ago #
mrmo - Member

can i be 'forced' to work from home?

What your post is suggesting is your position is redundant, they can offer you a new one, based at home, or if you don't like it then you can walk away with a redundancy cheque.

The company might be nice and assist with set up costs, but beyond ensuring your home office meets H&S i don't believe they have to do much more.

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

Thanks Tails. With a wife who genuinely works from home, two young kids, and a relatively modest house given the area we live in, we really don't have any easy options. Strictly speaking, as an example i could move the two kids into a room together and convert the 3rd bedroom to an office but that would impact their quality of life significantly imho. Likewise garage, but then where do the bikes go? And it would be cost which would have to be funded, and i don't really want to have to remortgage / take loans / eat into savings just so the company can save on office costs.

Garden office is the best option of all three, tbh, and one I've toyed with already, hence I would probably ask for a contribution as a first step, even self funding against a loan from the employer as an alternatice.

Switching gear somewhat - when we've considered that we were thinking of a garden room as a conservatory, built directly onto the back of the house through existing french doors and onto the patio. To be used as a garden room cum office space (that one small extra space of 3 x 3.5m making enough of a difference). Any experience of that?

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

mrmo -

What your post is suggesting is your position is redundant, they can offer you a new one, based at home, or if you don't like it then you can walk away with a redundancy cheque.

is that opinion or fact - are you in this area?

Position is not redundant - in fact the opposite, they have emailed confirming they want me to continue in my role post acquisition, which i am. The subsequent closure of the site, which may be some months away (and is 'informed speculation' at present) is a whole new aspect that came to light just before christmas. If it happens is that considered a whole new situation when it arises, or by agreeing to the new role (continuation of my role for the new company) am i somehow treated differently to others who are more in limbo currently?

Posted 4 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Forget the nonsense about constructive dismissal.

Your home office would have to meet the various H&S rules and display screen regs and so on - and they have to help you with this. If you do not have space in your house for a home office I don't know what the situation is - I suspect tehy would have to provide you with a suitable office space

It also has implications for your insurance and so on

Join a union, get real advice

Posted 4 months ago #
Papa_Lazarou - Member

It may not be the case for you, but for many, the fact they drive to an office just to use a PC and phone every day is bonkers, especially considering the environmental, cost, time and safety implication of a commute by car.

An increasing number of people I know work from home for a good portion of the time and only go into an office for the odd meeting or to see clients.

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

Join a union, get real advice

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

TJ; I knew I'd get that from you but I might just do that for the benefit of getting sound advice rather than any collective bargaining reasons.

What union is suitable for general office workers / science professionals?

Posted 4 months ago #
freeridenick - Member

most people would jump at the chance not to commute. surely you will save on commuting costs etc - does a home office really have to cost 10k. bet you can do it cheaper.

union - please.

Posted 4 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

theotherjonv

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/unionfinder/

GMB or Unite possibly?

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

Papa

Under other circumstances, it would not be my preference [I'm a social animal] but I'd be OK with working from home - that's not the issue. In my current situation i couldn't, I'd have to spend some real money to be able to do it safely / comfortably, hence the question whether I can be forced into either working from home surrounded by cooking pots, or spending my own money to be able to keep working for them.

[edit] - expensed car (flame me) so cost of commute is not the issue. But it's another bargaining point I guess; co would save say 200 commutes a year @ 50 miles each = 10000miles = 250 gallons of fuel = £1600. And cheaper than £10K for a decent addition to the house; it's not my choice therefore not necessarily up to me to do it as cheaply as possible. I need to do it in a way that would be consistent with the property as a whole, and not devalue the overall property with some halfarsed lean to. Like I've said, I'm not averse to contributing / spending the money if it adds to the overall value but financing it would need to be in a way that doesn't disadvantage me unduly, because it's principally not my decision to make this change and incur the costs..

Posted 4 months ago #
squiff - Member

I would look into them luxury shed/offices things, theres some bloody good ones out there and you can easily hook up electricity to them.

I work from home and am looking into getting one. luckiy I have a big plot of land to put one on.

AND the costs will be a lot cheaper than renting/building etc

Posted 4 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

How much is a small serviced office cost?

Posted 4 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

I've worked at home for 4 years. Best thing I've ever done in terms of work life balance.

We were lucky to have a spare bedroom I could convert but I'd now happily pay to have a 'posh shed' put up in the garden to allow me to carry on working from home.

As above - if you add up all the costs of working any distance from home then you could quite easily offset the cost of making provision at home.

I won't comment on what's 'appropriate' in terms of 'helath and safety' beyond saying if you use common sense then you'll be fine.

Posted 4 months ago #
FuzzyWuzzy - Member

Interesting question, as TJ says there are H&S regs to comply with which are normally satisfied cheaply as people have an area in their house they can use. If no such area exists then whilst I can see it's a bit unreasonable to expect the employee to fund the provision of the area but it's also unreasonable to expect the company to fit the bill (and if they did would they be tying you into a repayment clause in case you leave the company soon after etc.).

Not sure what artist is ranting about either, seems pretty reasonable to me what you've done up to now. I'd say you'd be more of a muppet commuting 140 miles daily...

Posted 4 months ago #
stilltortoise - Member

As for what you're entitled to ask for, I have no idea. Personally I'd just ask the direct question of your HR department. We were fortunate enough to have a garage that was only used for dumping stuff, so we converted it into a back porch/office. It didn't even occur to me to ask if work could contribute to be honest, but then I could have used another existing room.

As for practical advice, here are some of the issues I've come across:

1. With the best will in the world kids WILL come into the office. Some people on here have claimed that their kids know not to and maybe I'm a bit soft, but when I'm sat in an office on me tod all day, a 2 minute disturbance by the little 'uns is quite welcome.

2. My office is not on the central heating but instead has independent underfloor heating. This made sense at the time but it can take a long time to warm up and my fingers are still a bit cold now! Make sure you're working space is easy (and cheap) to heat.

3. Set your router up to block Singletrackworld during working hours

Posted 4 months ago #
coffeeking - Member

I'd ask for the cost of building the home office and equiping it, plus the broadbean connection and a contribution to heating. i.e. a pay rise.

3. Set your router up to block Singletrackworld during working hours

Self-fail?

Posted 4 months ago #
simon_g - Member

I know a few people who either have WFH arrangements or are freelancers who rent a desk in local offices. Plenty of businesses have shrunk in recent years and have some space going spare - all you need these days is power and internet (and even then, you could supply your own internet via 3G). They get a quiet, distraction-free space and have a short "commute" even if it's a 10 minute walk down the road.

As said, an employer has a whole load of H&S obligations over home working - if you don't have somewhere suitable to work (at least from a comfort/safety point of view, rather than distractions) then I don't see how they can compel you to do so.

By the sounds of it, you're in a good position to negotiate whatever end result you want. I'd say see what a local office might cost (ideally based on a regus or similar serviced office) and ask for that much extra per month, reviewed annually.

Posted 4 months ago #
Cougar - Member

Ask work.

"Working from home is not viable, what are you going to do about it?"

(only, y'know, nicely)

Posted 4 months ago #
b r - Member

We both work from home but do have the benefit of a spare (small) room and more grown-up family.

There is no reason to need to spend £10k, imagine you've a budget of £1k and go from there. Ignore TJ and his public-sector appproach, all you need to start with is a decent 10'*8' shed, electricity and a big heater. Plus ask if you could expense any of it.

Just imagine the increase in quality time you'll get with the family - pretty much always able to take breakfast/lunch/dinner with them plus savings in commuting time/costs - get rid of the company car (big tax saving)?

Unless its redundancy you want, and if so just be awkward.

Posted 4 months ago #
iDave - Member

personally I'd wait until you actually know what's going on. seems like a lot of worry and flaff over conjecture/gossip. if they want to close the premises, they can still lease a small serviced office for you and whoever else they need.

Posted 4 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

seems like a lot of worry and flaff over conjecture/gossip

I'm good friends with the technical director out of work as well, and he has been verbally informed by his boss of the plan / his and his staff's likely redundancy as a result. Hence 'informed conjecture' rather than idle gossip.

I hadn't thought of the hot desking in someone else's space. there's an office complex nearby, might do a bit of leafletting later, just on the off chance.

Posted 4 months ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Pages: 12 Next »

Reply »

You must log in to post.

Singletrack Mountain Bike Magazine

Chat Forum

Working from home / closing local office

Reply »

Don't miss…

Singletrack

Website & Forums

Exits