Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 69 total)
  • woodburning/multifuel stoves – any idea on costs?
  • stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Right, I’m coming round to the idea of sticking a stove in my sitting room. Fed up with paying exorbitant gas costs to heat a draughty Victorian flat so anything I can do to bring the monthly costs down has to be a good thing – right?

    The room is about 60 cubic metres but it would be good if it provided enough output to heat the kitchen and hall as well (say 100 cub. m.). According to stove size calculators I’d need about 8-9kW output.

    So, any ball-park figures on the costs involved? I have a bricked-in fireplace and I have no idea on the viability of the chimney so that would have to be taken into account. The concrete hearth is sound though.

    Cheers,

    SC

    rob-jackson
    Free Member

    £3-4k

    richc
    Free Member

    Right, I’m coming round to the idea of sticking a stove in my sitting room. Fed up with paying exorbitant gas costs

    Unless you have a free source of wood (you can’t just take wood from a forest as that’s theft, and you need to season it for a few years) Gas is going to be the cheapest way to heat your flat.

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    donsimon
    Free Member

    What levels of insulation do you have? Can it be improved?
    Try thinking about using less rather than using the same or more with a lower cost. It will be cheaper and better in the long run.

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Double-glazing throughout, loft pretty well insulated. Problem is thick stone walls with a lath-and-plaster interior = heat-sink.

    Cost-saving is my primary motivation but aesthetics come into it as well. As far as fuel goes, any idea what typical monthly outlay might be?

    you can’t just take wood from a forest as that’s theft

    I’d guessed that much… 😉

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    For a burner of that size I am pretty sure you will need to have a vent added to the room – I am pretty sure they don’t take into account doors opening into the room.

    For us, in Suffolk, we paid about £3k for two 4kw stoves and SS liners inc fitting etc two years ago.

    Stoves were £600 a piece.

    As above its often not a viable outlay just to try and claw back through using the central heating less. We saw it as adding a feature to the room etc.

    Cheap to run though. If you can store a years/winters worth of wood/smokeless coals etc you can buy in the summer at summer rates.

    We buy expensive smokeless coals compared with std natural coal.

    Burns better, less heat fluctuation, cleaner but pretty expensive.

    1 x 25kg bad is about £8.50 – I am sure the same weight of natural coal is under a fiver.

    So for a winter we may use 300kg of coals and a 1m3 of wood.

    Well under £200.

    Stoke the stoves before bed ….. still warm in the morning!

    To add we did the work in unblocking the chimney breasts etc

    bristolbiker
    Free Member

    As far as fuel goes, any idea what typical monthly outlay might be?

    Varies, depending on wood mix and how dry and seasoned you buy it, but anyting less than ~£75 per m^3 for good dry wood and you’ll be doing well. How much you burn a year is up to you, buy we easily munch through 15 m^3 a year with a small 5kW stove. As others have said, if you don’t have a free source of wood you will struggle to save any money overall and the costs of the stove/flue/fitting is a big up-front cost.

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Thanks for the replies so far guys. I’m beginning to get an idea of the upfront/running costs.

    I’m getting the impression that it’s not a thing to do to save money in the short term but with the cost of gas on an ever-upward trajectory and way beyond inflation, it might make sense in the longer term and/or make the property more attractive to prospective buyers.

    I do like the idea of having one, costs notwithstanding. Need to check what restrictions there are in my area first though…

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Winter costs me £150-200 in wood and £80 in coal

    xcgb
    Free Member

    Deffo need a vent for that size of stove

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    I’m just going by recommended sizes for the estimated area – could maybe get away with a smaller one. What is the maximum output before vents come into the equation?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    5kw is your maximum for no extra ventilation.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    What size is the room ie 3m x 4m etc? I would say our living room is average size and I certainly wouldnt want a stove bigger than the 5kw we have. It heats most of the house, but to do that the lounge gets quite hot!

    We too use the posh coal as it makes the wood last longer.

    One of my friends has a cheap 5kw stove, I think he paid about £450. It doesnt burn as efficently as the Morso 04 I have and gets through more wood.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Coupla things to note
    A stove that size will eat fuel!
    The idea in theory of it heating other rooms is great but in the real world it can be a bit of a ball ache as you have to have it that hot it’s just too warm to sit in the room with it roaring away!
    3.5 kw here cost me 1100 fitted for cash with stainless liner a cowling and all the associated bits and bobs!!

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    Its better to run a smaller stove hot (hence cleaner) rather than a larger one at half capacity.

    The rooms in our cottage are pretty small.

    4kw was the maximum without a vent. Ours burns nice and clean – very little in the way of soot when swept.

    Our neighbour with the same size of room went with a 6kw. She had to have a vent fitted (drafty) and I cannot believe it burns cleanly without making the room/house unbelievably hot.

    Her excuse was she didn’t want to cut her logs up too much and so wanted a stove with a larger door! 🙄 😆

    convert
    Full Member

    we easily munch through 15 m^3 a year with a small 5kW stove.

    😯 Is that you only source of heat?

    We have a very small inset stove (I think its rated at 4.5kw coal, 3.5kw wood) which gets fed every evening from end of october to March and most of the day at the weekends. I’ve never got through more than 2 loads (circa 1m3 per load) of wood and 200kg (8 bags) of smokless coal in a season. To get through that much you must have someone on constant firewatch!

    convert
    Full Member

    Just to add- If I was doing it again (in a house I actually owned rather than this rented one) I’d go for a bigger stove but with a back boiler either linked to the existing heating system (better but a little complex depending on your heating system) or to a new set of rads. The scandanavians do it with extra vents to the upstairs rooms or pipes and air pumps to get the air from the hot room with the stove to the other rooms which sounds good too.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Oh now theres a question, what saw for cutting logs??

    I’m currently using some thing like this

    but a cheapo version from Asda.

    Is there some thing better I should be using, or indeed if I pay more money will it be better as the one I have never cuts straight (bad workman blaming his tools?)

    flowerpower
    Free Member

    We have inherited two stoves in our house, it also has solid walls with lathe and plaster (1850’s)

    The smaller Morso Badger (4.5kw) heats a room 7m x 5m although we keep the doors shut if not using the other stove as it needs all the heat to keep that room warm.

    The larger Morso Squirrel (5kw) heats a small 4m x 3m sitting room – but it gets way too hot so we leave the doors open to heat the hall and kitchen.

    We light the squirrel most evenings, but only for a couple of hours, and the larger stove mainly at weekends. We easily go through £250 wood in the winter @ £55 per tonne (but don’t use coal), and have the heating (expensive gas) running at a base level too.

    Not sure if lighting the stoves saves us money, but I love the whole ‘lighting the fire’ ritual and feel in a room. Loads cleaner and more efficient than an open fire.

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Room is approx. 4x5x3m (high ceilings).

    Kitchen has been redone recently so is better insulated (above, below and to the sides) but the hall is a bit of a cold spot with only a single radiator.

    Would a 4-5kW stove run hot do the job then?

    jacksonwwirl
    Free Member

    @funkydunc – what saw for cutting logs?? your chain saw of course , dont all mtbers own at least one chainsaw

    Stoner
    Free Member

    I have an 11kW stove that provides the air heat for much of the house (600m3) as it’s open plan. The flue runs through the upstairs corridor as well acting as a radiator.

    Lately I have been heating the house via a combination of the woodstove and also the log furance in my boiler. By lighting a log fire in the furnace once a day I save on at least a bag of pellet fuel which is about £2.50-3.00 of fuel. My wood is currently free as it’s seasoned willow I pollarded at the beginning of the year (willow will season in 6-9 months in the right conditions).

    To provide a fuel source for the future I recently bought the equivalent of 10x £90 loads of wood as willow cord (my mates who do firewood dont sell willow as consumers dont want it in an open fire – its great in a burner or furnace though) for £400. This will last me probably 2-3 years.

    Today I went to pick up 500+ willow whips which I shall be planting tomorrow which I hope to yield at around 8-12 oven dry tonnes per hectare, which for my parcel is probably about 1 tonne per year on a 3 year short rotation coppicing. That’ll be about £150ish worth a year. The whips have cost about £400. I’ll put a thread up with some pics tomorrow while Im at it.

    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    I’m about to pay

    £1,194 for a woodburner
    £810 for 9M of flue liner
    £500 approx for fitting, cowl for pot and other bits & bobs.

    That is in West Sussex.

    Maybe gives you an idea of costs but obviously the cost of the woodburner depends on which you choose. We just picked the one we liked the look of. Cost of the liner is rather dictated by how long your chimney is.

    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    Just noticed you say you have a bricked in fireplace but I have no idea what that means. I removed an old (lovely perhaps 70s vintage brown tile) fireplace and fireback myself then had my plasterer make good when he was doing the rest of the room. The figures I quoted above assume there is already a suitable fireplace the woodburner can be fitted into.

    convert
    Full Member

    Don’t assume you have to have your chimney lined. Some folks will say you do – strangly they also sell liners!

    globalti
    Free Member

    Best advice I was given when we bought a stove was to err on the side of a smaller stove, then you will be burning it harder and hotter and it will stay cleaner. Buy a big stove and you’ll be running it turned down and it will be smoky and the flue will need more sweeping.

    convert
    Full Member

    And chuck a coke can or similar in it once a week when its nice and hot to make cleaning to flue easier – although it might ruin your green credentials.

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    green-ish. 😉

    Apart from looking out the window to see if anyone else in the street is burning a fire, is there a “postcode-checker” type website I can look at to see if there are restrictions in my area?

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Just phone your local council office they’ll tell you. Unbelievably my side of the road is burn what you like the other is smokeless!!
    And as for the liner comment I would certainly recommend one, as I know of two failed stoves that were fitted without.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    And chuck a coke can or similar in it once a week when its nice and hot to make cleaning to flue easier – although it might ruin your green credentials.

    open or sealed? 😉

    and what does it do?

    convert
    Full Member

    as I know of two failed stoves that were fitted without.

    How does a stove fail because of a (lack of) liner?

    If your existing chimney does not leak, it does not need lining. Many cases of mis-selling with folk new to stoves/open fires being conned into unnecessary lining of chimneys.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Was also wondering that?

    convert
    Full Member

    open or sealed?

    and what does it do?

    It was a trick passed on by our sweep he had learnt from another customer. The (empty 😉 ) can melts/burns and you get a slightly white deposit on inside your chimney. The sweep reports that customers that have done this with previously difficult to sweep chimneys are now much easier/looser to sweep.

    I think there are commercial products that do the same.

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    From experience, I would be surprised if the chimney in a victorian flat didn’t need lined.

    When wrightyson talks of ‘failed stoves’ ‘m guessing they were fitted into an unlined chimney but then smoked back/ran badly/leaked.

    If your flat is part of a bigger vuctorian building I’m guessing your flue is part of a stack containing, lets say 4 flues in total.

    4 flue stack= tonnes of masonry.

    In victorian times 4 open fires runing almost constantly might have had an output of 12kw each but at least 9 of those were going up the chimney. So 36kw of heat warming the stack makes for a healthy draw.

    You open your fireplace now and put in a 5kw stove which puts 4kw to the room and 1kw up the chimney may never warm the flue enough to get a good draw. Lining is by no means essential but is certainly a good idea if you want peace of mind your stove is working as best it can, is easy to sweep and isn’t gassing your neighbours through the wall.

    *I am not a purveyor of chimney liners, but I do fit plenty*

    To the original question – I would reckon around a grand for fitting and the same again for lining with top grade liner. Don’t get cheap and nasty stuff, it’s really not worth it.

    Do it, you will love it. I’ve put quite a few in old places like yours and they heat the fabric of the building in a way a radiator never can. And sitting in front of it with a book and a dram is sublime.

    As others have said, don’t go too big – a 5kw stove chucks out a lot of heat. I fitted 2 stoves to this big victorian house at 7kw each, one in each end (the huge rooms with the bay/hex windows and they pretty near heat the whole place as the heat goes out into the big hall and upstairs. Proprietar is delighted with them.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Yeah as above, they just wouldn’t draw properly.

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Brilliant.

    You have convinced me, Bedmaker!

    TooTall
    Free Member

    As mentioned up there, sort out all the other problems first. If not, you are just heating the air outside your flat via the draughts you say you have. You’ll get far more return on your investment by insulating and draughtproofing before anything else.

    A Victorian flat – that would lead me to ask where you’ll store several cubes of wood anyway.

    Mintman
    Free Member

    I just had a 4kW stove fitted and broke down like this:

    Stove £450
    Granite Hearth £300
    Installation (fitting hearth and stove, rendering inside fireplace, lining chimney and materials, repointing chimney, supply of scaffolding) £1300

    We opened up the fireplace and prepared the base ready to take the hearth but the cementing etc was done by the installer. Basically the price above was “all in”.

    convert
    Full Member

    Yes, I guess that’s fair enough.

    I grew up in a house just like that (so much so in fact I had to google streetview the one I grew up in just to check it wasn’t the same) with about a gazillion fireplaces. Each one worked well enough, inc the one my folks put a stove in, on its own although there was one you had to do the news paper trick with to get it drawing when you first started it. Was anyone lining chimneys back in the late 70s?

    stuartie_c
    Free Member

    Good points TooTall. It’s not actually that draughty but the issue of storage of wood is a good point. Little room inside but there is plenty of space in the garden for a woodshed; take in what I need and store it in the hall cupboard/next to the stove.

    Bedmaker – where you based?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 69 total)

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