Internet experts have a blue ribband thread to argue over all day.

Corker.

It has been.

Fantastic.

Where does the theory that these…… people are “middle and upper class ****” come from? Some? Many?…………If people are just out for a ruck I can’t see that their class background is of the slightest interest either way

Makes a big difference to me. For many reasons.

I would dismiss the claim that many are ‘upper class’ but a fair few are ‘middle class’ there’s no doubt about it. Where does the theory come from ? Well I’m perfectly capable of distinguishing between middle-class and working-class people. I find it a bit of a give away talking to them – they often drop clues like what they do for a living 😯

In my experience those who screw things up at these events are invariably middle-class. But that is not to say of course, that all middle-class protesters at these events cause problems – far from it.

Oh btw – there’s a big difference between being prepared ‘if’ things kick off, and ‘wanting’ things to kick off.

imo.

grizzlygus – Member
Oh btw – there’s a big difference between being prepared if things kick off and, wanting things to kick off.

imo.

Errant comma notwithstanding, a very good point.

Yeah you’ve made me very aware of my errant commas in the past Captain – I try and keep them under control these days. I had already edited before you posted.

Did I get it right btw ?

Have you been down there today gus? I am (honestly) curious at how ton and people have arrived at their conclusions about the social background of today’s mob.

🙂

I’m in reserve for the final push and the setting up of the Provisional Government BD.

There’s a lot of paperwork still to get through ….. compiling lists of ‘enemies of the People’ ….. you know, that sort of stuff.

.

God, I’m going to love the post-revolution Reign of Terror 😀

I was there today.Only wanted to go for a bit but suddenly I was trapped.The police wouldn’t let anybody leave for hours.So many people just wanted to go.Surely they can manage to let people out and not let people in?
Think they were dying for things to kick off and this penning in tactic is perfect for intimidating people and causing more anger and frustration.Then the newspapers and BBC get their shots of “protesters attacking police” for their biased coverage.

doesn’t need an comma after the ‘off’ or the ‘and’.

double FAIL

Right, some pics from my walk to the station past the ‘activities’

First the obligatory Flickr link http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/

Looking towards Bank on King William Street. Note the police toilets! Vans on the right contain riot gear

Looking towards bank on Cornhill. Those aren’t protesters you can see – they’re city workers having a look!

Looking at the Bank Of England at the Royal Exchange
Some participants this side of the Police line, most the other side

More Riot gear vans. There were lots & lots of these. Inside, they are kitted out with racks for sheilds, helmets, etc

So, all in all it was very contained which was a good thing. Those that wanted to protest could, those that didn’t could go about their business (mostly)

BigDummy –
you know as well sa i do and most on here.
these protesters are the same ones that protest at
hunts
testing laboritories
gm crop fields
union disputes
poll tax rallies
or just about any protest going.
most are ex university students
usually over qualified to get a proper job, they feel they are worth a better carry on than most.
**** all common sense is the norm.
and with far too much time on their hands.
😉

think there were prehaps more cameras up town today than ‘protesters’.

all a bit of a joke really (as shown by chessy’s pics)…..

Ton, those that I saw predominantly looked like students 😆

ex or present university students than…………… 🙄

alpin – Member
doesn’t need an comma after the ‘off’ or the ‘and’.

double FAIL

Bollox. I’ll never get me head round this ‘Written English’ malarkey 🙁

Thought I’d cracked it and all …………. next step, “learn to talk proper”, I’d said to me self 🙁

I was there today.Only wanted to go for a bit but suddenly I was trapped.The police wouldn’t let anybody leave for hours.

I first witnessed that police tactic in the run up to the Iraq war. It’s extremely effective as it seriously screws up demos. Almost certainly illegal though, as you are effectively being detained by the police – with no good cause.

Police say there were 5,000 protesters. Lets double it to be nice.
£7.5m of policing costs, lets say half of that is for the Excel arena.

3.75m/10,000 = £375 per swampy.

They should have offered them each £200 and as much organic tofu as they can eat to stay at home at their parents and we would have still saved a bundle! 🙂

trailmonkey – Member
A great day for t055ers of all persuasions I’d say. Yob riot police get to crack a few heads. Crusty **** get to shout a lot without contributing anything worthwhile to anyone. Anarchists get really dangerous and smash some glass. Bankers keep on doing what they do best, as nothing has the power or inclination to stop them. The press get served up paydirt. The great and good have a bit of a chin wag over a luxury buffet. Internet experts have a blue ribband thread to argue over all day

And I’m sure RBS’s insurers will be having some interesting discussions about whether they took reasonable precautions to protect their premises. Lots of other places were boarded up: tailors, motor dealers, some near, some further away. AIG took their signs down outside their building. The company was an obvious target, not to mention that branch was right in the planned demo area, and no protection at all. I think (hope) the staff had been sent home. And where were the police? Watch the BBC footage and there’s couple of rioters, about 100 journalists/photographers and no police at all.

Given that the government have a controlling share, were they in a position to encourage the building’s sacrificial use for some juicy pictures to turn opinion against the protesters?

Ton you are absolutely right! No one has a problem with peaceful protestors especially as we all feel strongly about something but those few minority idiots that like to riot and cause havoc for all the law abiding citizens causes the police to have to react in the way they do penning EVERYONE in.

How much would policing costs have been if there had been no protestors stoner ?

Unusual for you to be slack with figures innit ? Specially ones concerning money. 😕

Munqe-chick – Member
Ton you are absolutely right! ……….those few minority idiots that like to riot

So how is he right ? He wants them all shot.

😕

gus, i was kidding, did you not see 😉 and 😀 😆 mate.

No ton, I didn’t – I’ve always assumed that everyone on here says what they think.

Never occured to me that some might be taking the p1ss 😯

but those few minority idiots that like to riot and cause havoc for all the law abiding citizens causes the police to have to react in the way they do penning EVERYONE in.

Wrong. The police began penning people in, before the trouble started. It was clearly show, on the BBC live stream. I’ve seen this tactic used plenty of times; as Gus points out, it is very effective in screwing up a demo, as the resulting violence will grab the media attention, and detract form the actual reasons for the demo.

Notice how the police ‘squeezed’ the contained groups at certain intervals, then fell back and let people leave? Deliberate. Designed to get a reaction, and once they’d got a reaction, and the TV crews etc had got their pictures, then they stepped back.

Rudeboy is quite correct. Its a tactic known as the kettle. People are penned into a space and denied water and the use of toilet facilities – there are a number of legal challenges ongoing against this tactic. From first hand accounts from yesterday the police used this tactic very agressively. For them it works on 2 levels – firstly it discourages those on a peaceful protest from continuing and secondly it aggrevates those who are prepared to use direct action. There were a numbers of scenes yesterday where people desperate to break through police lines to leave the protest were denied access and arrested when they tried to run.

some good information here on today’s events: http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/992

But since public toilets are provided by the man, then they surely wouldn’t want to use them anyway?

your humour excels

well the circus is over
the g20 leaders have saved the day
the protestors can go home satisfied that a window got broken
the suits got a mufti day
the journos got some frontline action
the police got to stomp some crusties
cfh had a whole potted calf for lunch
and most importantly stwers got to proclaim their wildly unsubstansiated opinions on …..
the parental income and personal hygiene of youre average protestor
police crowd control tactics
the casual dress sense of bankers

it is very effective in screwing up a demo

The kettle is indeed a very effective tactic, and the police can go home feeling ‘job well done’.

Only …. in the long term it is extremely counterproductive. I have seen ‘the kettle’ become a real reality check for some people. Suddenly people who have never been in trouble with the police, often respectable middle-class, middle-aged people who wouldn’t even risk getting a parking ticket, find that they are been held against their will, unable to even get a drink or go to the toilet. When they eventually leave they have a completely different attitude towards the police.

And Munqe-chick you might well think that it’s absolutely fine to punish everybody because according to you there’s a “few minority idiots that like to riot”, but I don’t believe that this is a principle which is generally recognised under British law – you don’t punish a whole group of people with the intention of including the guilty ones.

It also doesn’t help my cause when I try to tell some idiot “yes I know, but only ‘a tiny minority’ of coppers are ****, most are alright – you can’t throw that brick hoping that it will hit one of the horrible ****” 😯
It just gives fuel to the morons. And fails to distinguish the guilty from the innocent.

The kettle is one of the most longterm counterproductive tactics used be the police. I have been at the scene of countless ‘disturbances’, specially at Wapping. I have seen bricks, scaffold tubes, the lot, thrown at the police (usually in response to police charges) of which I totally disapprove, and I have also witnessed indiscriminate police violence. But I have always believed that even though I was in the thick of it, not breaking the law was essential – I have never been arrested.

However after recent experiences where even though I have fully cooperated with police requests, I have been held for hours against my will and denied basic rights, despite having broken no laws and been on a perfectly legal demo, I can’t be completely sure that I wouldn’t support attempts to break through police lines – something which I have never considered before. Sod not being allowed to go home, and being treated like a criminal 😕