Slightly trolling, so I appologise, but for all the “650b is ruining our sport” threads, here’s some food for thought.

Dinghy sailing is probably a very similar demographic to mountainbiking, some kids, a handfull of serious guys in their 20’s raceing, and a lot of 30-50 MAMINs (Middle Aged Men In Neoprene) and an unassuming looking 85yr old guy who’ll kick your arse. New boats cost £4k and upwards, but second hand is a more usefull option than it is in mountainbiking, so realisticaly a £300 to £500 boat could be competative in some classes, so not dissimilar to bike prices.

Just got a quote for a new carbon rig and sail for a “One Design”, i.e. a boat who’s design is relatively fixed to keep costs down and prevent money being spent on development to gain an advantage, but there are still multiple suppliers for similar parts so competition should keep prices in check and drive development within the rules. Basicly the same a the UCI’s rules on minimum weight limits and bikes having to be bike shaped.

The alternative is a “single make one design” which is like Giant creating an XC race series where everyone must ride a Giant XTC, with very little allowed in the way of changes but everyone moans it’s expensive/crap as Giant are still chargeing top dollar for a badly built bike they didn’t design 40 years ago and have stoped paying royalites to the designer on, that has to be raced on steel rimmed wheels with 5 speed screw on free wheels. And “development class” where within certain rules anything goes, often a ‘box rule’ where the boat has to be X length, Y beam, Z depth etc and consequently very expensive as every year there’s something new and faster making old boats uncompetative and that development also needs to be paid for.

Mast £1500 (for a straight tube, compare that to the swoopyness of a carbon bike frame!)
Boom £Free (January sale so comes free with the mast, but £500 normaly for a much shorter straight tube!)
Sail £880 (oddly, I reckon that’s actualy good value for what it is)

So £2300 to upgrade the boating equivelent of wheels and tyres, and they have a comparable useable life!

Regards,
Disgruntled (with the people who vote in changes to allow carbon masts in older classes rather than just joining a new class with them) of Wokingham

Dinghy sailing is probably a very similar demographic to mountainbiking

…then why do I have no idea what you are talking about?

boats are for posh people just like boutique bikes

Bit of lube on the chain stops the bike going “cheep” 😉

You have too much time on your hands.

Ninja edits go quack

so realisticaly a £300 to £500 boat could be competative in some classes

seems a bit optimistic to me

Disgruntled (with the people who vote in changes to allow carbon masts in older classes rather than just joining a new class with them)

well if there was vote then you have to go with it. Its not good to keep a class in aspic or else people will gradually move away from it and it will die

Mast £1500 (for a straight tube, compare that to the swoopyness of a carbon bike frame!)

I’m no expert but wouldn’t be surprised if the forces and dynamics required of a mast wern’t quite a bit more challenging than of a bike frame where the longest unsupported section is perhaps 5 to 10 times shorter.

It is a shame though that there just isn’t much agreement in the dinghy word over how many classes there should be, what direction the sport should go in etc etc

Is it not a manufacturing batch-size thing?

As you say yourself, there are so many classes and so many variants that whenever a manufacturer is producing the ‘latest thing’ they are making a handful of items.

Currently in cycling, there are standardised parts, so therefore a decent batch size when it comes to manufacturing. If anything, the advent of 650b, 26″, 29″ and fatty will ultimately mean higher prices for all wheels, tyres and tubes because the batch sizes will reduce as the demand is spread across all the different variations.

As said boats are for posh people…

Pretty much everyone had a bike as a kid, who had a boat? (Not much use for riding to your mates house of you did)

As said boats are for posh people…

Even the ones that live on peoples front lawns?

boats are for posh people

that is such a load of bollox

Where is this stuff made, what’s the volume etc?

My guess is not in Taiwan by the thousand.

seems a bit optimistic to me

My first propper boat was a mirror, cost £250 and occasionaly won. Same shape as an optimist, just a bit bigger.

well if there was vote then you have to go with it. Its not good to keep a class in aspic or else people will gradually move away from it and it will die

I agree, but there are so many classes some attrition would be no bad thing. Take the phantom amd rs300, why cant the phamtom remain with alloy spars and dracon sails for budget sailors, and the very similar 300 for those with deep pockets and a lust for shiny black poles and plastic sails?

boats are for posh people

that is such a load of bollox

Sorry
Posh people and fishermen

As above, it’s an economies of scale thing. My dad has just spunked £10k on a new fibreglass boat. We sail in a niche class (only just over 2000 boats built since the 60’s) and the builder will sell maybe 4 or 5 a year. A range of standard bits will fit it (masts, rudders etc.).

The need for different bits in boats is obvious too- different sail sizes require different masts and will produce massively different handling and behaviour. Different rudder blades will also alter the handling- they’re more comparable to a handlebar and stem combo. They don’t beggar about with a million standards for unnoticeable little things like bottom brackets.

Low volume sales means high costs, as does having several different designs within a sport that has low volume sales. Given the fact that our boat was one of 10 built last year and won the national championships last year, it costing £10,000 is much better value than a Scott Spark which won the world championships last year, has many thousands of frames built a year and is nearly £7k.

No, modern bicycles are still far too expensive. Modern boats are just quite a bit too expensive.

plyphon – Member

“As said boats are for posh people…”

Even the ones that live on peoples front lawns?

check out mr ‘la-di-da’ – ‘look at me and my front lawn – it’s so big i’ve put a boat on it’

My guess is not in Taiwan by the thousand.

Sails at least are designed in the west then the lofts are in the far east.

Masts/booms are produced as (cross)sections, so youre effectively buying an off the shelf product by the meter.

Most classes are into the thousands, Lasers are upto 210,000! Not all in one batch though!

so realisticaly a £300 to £500 boat could be competative in some classes

So £2300 to upgrade the boating equivelent of wheels and tyres

Should have stuck to £300 to £500 boats then. Or were you buying carbon and other fancy bits because you like them rather than need them? They sell those bits because you buy those bits.

glad you had some success with the mirror. when did you pay £250?, 1985 – only joking:-)

there are so many classes some attrition would be no bad thing

I agree with this, fewer classes would help

I’m too light for Phantom and probably for a 300 too, but I reckon a carbon rig would make them both easier to sail. I think the horse has bolted with the phantom development wars

Also, boats are competitive for far longer- we’re replacing a boat that was 10 years old and still on original everything bar the sails. Ironically, we were more competitive in the boat we had before that which cost £1500 and was already 27 years old when we got it. A bike raced at national championship level would be dead within a few years.

And the sails for our class aren’t available from the east, only a few UK chandlers do them.

And the sails for our class aren’t available from the east, only a few UK chandlers do them.

What class out of interest?

Scorpion. We fell into them by accident- I was too small for a Fireball when we moved up from an Enterprise. They were popular at our club (more popular than the emerging RS200 which would have been a better choice) and we wanted to race in a class rather than on handicap and were ideal for smaller crews. Even though now we’re probably too heavy we still have competitors to race against at the club and the social side of the class is great.

“BOATS ARE FOR POSH PEOPLE” x A FEW

Really ? My dad’s owned a boat or yacht for over 40 years,he’s obviously the poshest ex-lorry driver in town…

We did have a 23 ft 2.5 ton yacht sat on a trailer on the front for a year or two when I was kid though.He had two boats then !
He’s never had a new car in his life though….

We did have a 23 ft 2.5 ton yacht sat on a trailer on the front for a year or two when I was kid though.He had two boats then !
He’s never had a new car in his life though….

Best to let someone else take the depreciation hit on a Bentley. 🙂

(I totally disagree by the way that boats are for posh people)

I’ll sell you a

Boat
2 sets of sails
Road trailer
and various accessories (oars, outboard)

for £250 😀

Best to let someone else take the depreciation hit on a Bentley.

LOL,If you knew my old man you’d know how funny that really is,he hated spending money on cars.The majority of his cars were 10 years old when he bought them & lasted an MOT or two !
He did win a brand new Ford Fiesta in the works raffle once,drove it home,parked it up & sold it a week later.He’d done a whole 16 miles in it !
These days he doesn’t even own a car..

While I can sort of see the parallels between MTBs and various other “Equipment based” active sports I can’t help but think a lot of MTBers confuse The cost of basic equipment that they need to take part in the sport, with the cost of Gucci, expensive, don’t really need it but MBR said I’d ride like a God on it, High price point stuff that is mostly driven by Want…

Don’t get me wrong I fully support people’s rights to spunk their Earnings/Credit rating on whatever they choose, But don’t then Start moaning that you have been forced by “The Industry” to buy a £3K+ Composite ego charriot to bimble about swinley, when we all know a £300 Carrera would have done you just as well (See affordable 650b)…

Just learn the difference between Need and Want…