Simple enough question, but why do we need trade unions?

Dunno. *puts hands in pockets, looks at floor and kicks dust*

To support the rights of the working classes from the ravages imposed by the owning managing classes.

Perhaps 30 years ago , but now pretty irrelevant, to the self employed, the unemployed and those in SME`s

To give stw something else to bitch about.

Simple question. Why do we need trolls?

what project said, plus it gives some people a way of being important.

Look at british leyland in the ’70s.

I don’t, thanks.

Dark satanic mills- for modern references see third world sweat shops

My (short) experience of unions in the public sector has not been good. Ill informed, disorganised and usually missing the really important issues.

However my experience of senior management in the public sector has been equally bad. Staff do need protection from the meglomaniacs, just not convinced the unions I’ve come across are actually any good at doing it.

I live in a country that still has strong union representation, and enjoy better pay and working conditions than I would in the UK because of it.

I live in a country that still has strong union representation, and enjoy better pay and working conditions than I would in the UK because of it.

And comptetitiveness in exports? It’s still a question of extremes.

I believe Germany is still doing pretty well in the export market.

Yes. I am one of the very few at my place that is in the union but without them I would have been out of a job a while ago. At the time the company were looking for east targets and with the backing of the union I got through a pathetic disciplinary. I am not for the whole power to the people thing but for a one to one representation they were priceless.

why do we need laws? Why not just have biggest strongest wins not matter what?

Employers in this day and age never lie or manipulate their work force. Neither would they ever take advantage of people in vulnerable situations.

Divide and rule.

tbh most of the good unions do in the workplace cannot be told due to confidentiality. About 5% of employees have an issue each year resolved by Union intervention in my workplace. it is not all about striking..some of this is asking members to be reasonable, some of this bargaining with the employer on their behalf, some is disciplinary issues.

+1 for.

I believe Germany is still doing pretty well in the export market.

For how much longer after forcing up interest rates in the €urozone? 😉 Won’t be selling much in Spain for the foreseeable… 😉

probably not the Unions fault there DS and i hope you like cucumber sandwiches

Love ’em, not touching German beansprouts for the foreseeable though. 😉
Interest rate went up to curb inflation as a direct result of the increased domestic spending power achieved through the higher wages negotiated by the unions. ¿Como?

don simon – Member

I believe Germany is still doing pretty well in the export market.

For how much longer after forcing up interest rates in the €urozone? Won’t be selling much in Spain for the foreseeable…

The interest rates have been kept artificially low due to failures in the anglo/american finance markets, but that’s a whole different thread….

Because in a few years time, we’ll need to ship a load of people to the Falklands to make up the numbers?

I’m holding judgement until ‘my’ union sees fit to inform members as to the details of a recent meeting with management (last month) instead of keeping us in the dark and allowing rumours to run rife.

Is it too much to ask to be kept informed for my £20.30 per month!!

Because in a few years time, we’ll need to ship a load of people to the Falklands to make up the numbers?

Not too far from the frightening truth there.

Just balances really- I feel no need for it at all in my current job because it’s run well, by skilled professionals (and decent human beings). I’d still join if I was a permanent staff member though as they’re still involved at a higher level and I’d support that.

But in my last job, the union were absolutely essential because managers at all levels had lost the plot- bullying was common, illegal practices were constant… Serious decisions being made by people with no training or understanding of good practice or the law, and a HR department whose answer to everything was “It’s at manager’s discretion”. When the company ran mad, the union became critical to provide the balance that any good employer would provide themselves.

Is that common? I don’t know but that was a FTSE 100 company with 75000 employees in the UK so it’s certainly not uncommon. In an ideal world, companies would be well run and unions would be less relevant, but as it is, companies often create the need for them I think.

Working in a highly unionised environment I see both sides…

For: Its organised representation for a workforce with similar interests to communicate with a management who’s interests are not in line with the staff, it is also individual peer representation and support on local issues such as diciplinaries etc.

Against: Its self centred base level politics and S**T stirring for the sake of it, with no interest in individuals, and everyone knows someone at work who “knows whats going on and is respected”.

I wasn’t going to join the union when I started in my job 8 years ago, but when I had a H&S near miss and my manager just laughed and told me to deal with it, I joined GMB, who had a bit more clout than a spotty 22 year old who’d been in the job 2 weeks. Problem got assessed properly and was sorted. No one else had to lose any more fingers. Then a few years later GMB sold us up the river, all the reps got manager jobs and all the staff got shafted, so I left GMB.

few years later, lots of staff getting in trouble for insignificant things that have been tolerated previously(myself included), joined UNISON (after they offered the option of my membership funding unison only, not the labour party). Problems go away.

I’m sure I could get the same results by joining the 5 aside team (who play and drink with management) but I got a reduced rate on my mortgage through unison so all is good!

I don’t, thanks.

No you probably don’t anymore – as they’ve already secured your tea breaks and lunch breaks and holiday pay and sick pay if you get it. Not to mention the NHS which has only come about due to the Labour party which in itself was a product of the Trades Unions.

Now they’ve secured all that for you, like you say, you don’t need them anymore but nice of you to thank them.

I work for RBS, and they are presently crapping all over some of us, and as we are not unionised, we can barely put up any resistance.

I bitterly regret we are not unionised, and it’s due to the part of the bank I work for “actively” discouraging it.

Are RBS not under Unite? They’re s***e in my limited experience but possibly better than nothing

I’m holding judgement until ‘my’ union sees fit to inform members as to the details of a recent meeting with management (last month) instead of keeping us in the dark and allowing rumours to run rife.

Is it too much to ask to be kept informed for my £20.30 per month!!
some stuff cant come out unfortunately until it can come out. We discuss redundancy procedures, wage rises, T & C etc. Anything will always go out to the members for approval. We take the view that this is the best we can negotiate will you accept it. As i siad most of what we do goes unnoticed as we cant talk. you may hear what mgmt propose to you not what they proposed to us so you dont know what “victories” we got for example. A poor deal may have been awful for example

Makes me laugh the how its never reported that large corporations actually see (and acknowledge) a benefit from being unionised. The RW media will never report this.

they’re one of the three key basic ingredients in a bolognese sauce..?

In fact.. they’re the cornerstone of the basic flavouring in many dishes in every culture in the world..!
FFS… what a ridiculous question..

bad troll matey.. bad troll..

Yunki

thekingisdead – Member

Makes me laugh the how its never reported that large corporations actually see (and acknowledge) a benefit from being unionised. The RW media will never report this.

I’ve seen it reported 😕

Meehaja
Interesting points re GMB. I’ve been seriously considering joining them as I am less than satisfied with how Unison are performing. GMB is also £108 less per annum in membership fees.

Junkyard
I understand and appreciate the problems you have, however I am uneasy about the statement “As i siad most of what we do goes unnoticed as we cant talk. you may hear what mgmt propose to you not what they proposed to us so you dont know what “victories” we got for example. A poor deal may have been awful for example”. With all due respect, IME at least, well meaning and dedicated union reps who have risen through the ranks are generally at a distinct disadvantage when they negotiate with a management who’s entire career may have been in a specific field eg. law, accountancy, HR. While the union has ‘experts’ in these fields it can call upon, it means that the employer will almost always have the upper hand.

I like to put mushrooms and olives into the sauce too. And some Coriander. I find the Coriander gives it a nice ‘bouquet’, and compliments the flavour of the meat. Maybe not orthodox, but then I’m not really one for such strict adherence to rules, as I find individual interpretation can benefit a broader and more balanced perspective.

Of course management have the upper hand it is their company. If they want to restructure the entire company they can do this. if they wish to outsource IT, HR and accounts they can do this, move to poland etc. I dont think all Union members recognise this fact though.

Usually you will get the company Union reps [ the top ones so t speak]and then a regional officer [ employee of the union] who is the expert for us.
It is a lot more harmonious than you would think IME [ 3 companies] but it depends , as you note , on the individuals from both sides.

Junkyard – Member
tbh most of the good unions do in the workplace cannot be told due to confidentiality. About 5% of employees have an issue each year resolved by Union intervention in my workplace. it is not all about striking..some of this is asking members to be reasonable, some of this bargaining with the employer on their behalf, some is disciplinary issues.

Well said in very little words Junkyard

I fully understand that Junkyard and in no way were my comments meant as a slight on union officials in general. I don’t want to say too much on the ‘harmonious’ aspect as I have had a fairly appalling personal experience in this regard, not with my present employer BTW. If I voiced my opinion on aspects within my current workplace I may get into trouble, as we get regular warnings of dire consequences if we enter discussions on t’internet 8)

Based on my experience of them, I’m against them. Our one, Unite, was involved in the integration of two of the UK’s largest banks and the resulting contract changes. The majority of the workforce became worse off through loss of bonus or allowances (bear in mind these aren’t fat cat bankers, just people with jobs). Unite elected to gloss over this and instead produce a newsletter stating they managed to get a fridge installed in the office. Bunch of idiots, spineless buffoons and I rate my chances on my own over being represented by them.

e-mail in profile Woody 😉
I suppose it will depend our mgmt value the union generally and tbh they are a good employer so this helps when things go wrong. It is like two mates arguing rather than say TJ and al 😆