Yesterday walking back form home I saw the following :-

Car waiting to turn right into a driveway, correctly indicating. As there was a gap in the oncoming traffic he turns across the carraigeway. 7 or 8 children at this point come cycling down the footpath against the flow of traffic (there was a cycle path provided but it was on the road). The Car driver stops his car sharply and suddenly in order to stop before the pavement.

One of the cyclists grabs his front break and goes over the handle bars.

In this instance, another driver stopped and gave the car driver a hard time but I cant help but think this is a 50/50 one?

Driver.

One of the cyclists grabs his front break and goes over the handle bars.

All could have stopped fine – cyclist responsible for their own crash

cyclist. 1) the car stopped before he got in the bikes way and 2) the cyclist fell off of their own accord

I’d say cyclist but it also depends on the circumstances a little – when you say against the flow of traffic I assume you mean they were coming from the same direction as the driver, in which case they were probably invisible to him until the last second (in a blind spot, on the other side of the road, hidden by traffic/parked cars etc etc)

Nobody’s to blame. Just unfortunate timing.

What broke?

The driver should have not started the turn in if he could see that the route was not clear. Same for pedestrians crossing a side road if they have started to cross.

Cycling on a footpath!?!?!? #outrage

In the instance described above I think the cyclist has to take the blame.

I have a slight variation involving me where I thought I was in the right but I’d be intrigued to know the wider opinion.

Static traffic. Me in marked cycle path on side of road heading in the same direction and undertaking the stationary vehicles. Car in traffic flashes oncoming right turner into driveway and across my path. The car saw me too late and stopped partially across the pavement, completely across the cycle lane and partially in the road. I didn’t quite manage to stop but had scrubbed enough speed that the impact in the side of the car was minimal and no harm was done other than massively elevated heart rate for me and driver.

I might then have got a bit sweary with the driver but whose fault was it? Admittedly I was undertaking but the lane I was in had no obstructions and the lane to my right was static.

Cubist – you are right.

Cubist – I’d agree in your scenario the driver should anticipate oncoming traffic in the cycle lane as he pulls across it. I think the real blame here has to lie with the god awful “cycle lanes” which are just a painted line on the road, if anything there more dangerous!

Yak, I guess the slight variation above in my case is that

A) The driver stops before the footpath

B) The cyclists are travelling in the wrong direction, with congested roads the driver cannot really see or anticipate the cyclists on the path when he makes the initial maneuver.

cars don’t flash. drivers do.
the driver that flashed, didn’t flash the other driver, he used his lights to indicate “I am here”.
the driver that proceeded was in the wrong. it is his duty to look and make sure that it is safe to proceed across all lanes and pavement, in both OP and cubist’s case.

Ok then – sounds like it was an unfortunate incident if the kids were unsighted and the driver did give way anyway, albeit at the last minute.

the driver that flashed, didn’t flash the other driver, he used his lights to indicate “I am here”

Rubbish. Yeah, we all know what the highway Code says, but me, I drive on real roads in the real world and people flash headlights to let people through in that world. If you were waiting at a busy junction and someone flashed you and you sat there going “Oh, that is incorrect usage of the headlights. This clearly means “I am here” by the definition of the highway code” you’d never get out and would look a right pillock.

cyclist on footpath – in the wrong already – kids don’t get done only because police use their discretion.

You should never take a car flash as a signal to make a manouvre, you still have to assess every other possible hazzard as the flasher is sure not have have done any of that for you.

cubist – you are legally in the right – however if I was in that situation I would be thinking ” what could IO have done to avoid the collision” and what I do in that situation is undertake slowly ie 5mph so I have plenty of time to react if this happens and also look over and thru every car to see if someone is making this manoeuvre

You should never take a car flash as a signal to make a manouvre,

Agreed I always take it as one of:

A) xxxx off out of my way I am mega important and you are like the most pointless person ever who should just die so I can have more road to use

B) someone is happy for me to turn/go in front of them but I am responsible for checking every single aspect of that which I normally would first.

It’s the second bit of B that got missed in cubist’s case and many others. I used to be on the receiving end of that daily when I commuted in Southampton. I started going down the outside of the queue in the end. Different set of dangers but I could see more.

I’ve been repeatedly “B flashed” a couple of times when I haven’t taken the invitation only for the other driver to have an oh shit look when a motorbike or cyclist goes across the space I would have driven into if I had blindly followed the repeated flashed invitation.

Cubist: that’s almost identical to what happened to me, except I was going a bit quicker and couldn’t stop in time:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/knocked-off-for-the-first-time-what-can-i-learn-from-it

I’ve come to the conclusion that I should have been going even more slowly than I was, and should have been more aware of gaps in traffic. Road bike naivety I guess (I usually stick to the trails)

I was technically ‘right’, but that means bugger all tbh, and I totally get why the car driver did what he did, hold nothing against him.
My hip still hurts though 🙁

Why does someone have to be blamed? Wrong place wrong time..life’s full of it.

Thatcher!

I am now far more careful going up the inside of traffic and on some stretches I ignore the ‘safety’ of a painted cycle lane and filter up the outside of the traffic like I would have on my motorbike. Watching peoples front tyres and wing mirrors to spot signs of an impending right turn by a car I am filtering alongside. This does seem to really irritate some car drivers where the cycle lane exists but its only the bellend who decided to drift further right to block my path that has caused me any risk.

I wish my commute was off road – far safer and far more fun.

Children riding on pavements used to be OK up to a certain wheel size, I guess it still applies.

It seemed a fair cut-off until the Brompton came along.

Sounds like the car driver reacted promptly and appropriately to the hazard as soon as it arose.

I think it’s still ok if you’re of a sensible, rational mindset.

Yeh, I.e not going so fast you’ll go over the bars if you need to anchor on.

The kid was either going too fast or didn’t know how to use their brakes properly.
Sounds like the car stopped before it encroached the pavement so cyclist to blame from the information given.

Children riding on pavements used to be OK up to a certain wheel size

don’t think so, it’s just that children under 10 are under the age of criminal responsibility so can’t be done.

I am now far more careful going up the inside of traffic and on some stretches I ignore the ‘safety’ of a painted cycle lane and filter up the outside of the traffic like I would have on my motorbike. Watching peoples front tyres and wing mirrors to spot signs of an impending right turn by a car I am filtering alongside. This does seem to really irritate some car drivers where the cycle lane exists but its only the bellend who decided to drift further right to block my path that has caused me any risk.

This +1

I ride with my kids on the pavement to get to the trails. There is no way i’m letting my 2 on the road at their age. The road is a 40mph (ie lots doing 50mph) with varying widths and pinch points that no-one slows for.

So whilst probably not legal, I have no problem with kids on bikes on pavements if the roads are too dangerous for their ability.

I don’t have a problem with adults cycling on pavements if it’s sufficiently considerate for pedestrians.

I don’t allow my kids to play in the road with any of their other toys, and can see no reason why a bike should be any exception to this. When they’re old enough to understand the whys and wherefores of cycling on the road then they can begin to do it, and I don’t care what the law has to say!

Why does someone have to be blamed?

Might not be the case in this situation but the majority of the time it’s because in this day and age nobody wants to take responsibility for their own stupidity 😆

I agree that children should be allowed – and even encouraged – to ride on pavements, and they should only start to ride on the roads, especially unaccompanied, when they have sufficient awareness, self-discipline and skill to do so reasonably safely.

However, that doesn’t mean that children should be just left to learn for themselves how to ride safely on the pavement. Riding on the pavement should be where they are taught the beginnings of safe, considerate cycling and roadcraft. That means teaching them how to use the brakes properly, including emergency braking; learning to anticipate and spot hazards and ride accordingly; slowing down and if appropriate stopping when meeting a pedestrian, a dog walker or someone pushing a baby buggy etc. Those skills will then stand them in good stead when they start to ride on the road.

The fact that the child in this accident went over the bars, suggests that they were riding too fast for the conditions, were not adequately aware of what was happening around them, and lacked the skill to emergency brake safely.

I blame the parents.

Cycling? Children? I am outraged….

(just one of those things IMO)

All could have stopped fine – cyclist responsible for their own crash

Simple as that