so my dh bike got stolen from my shed last year, the insurance eventually paid out and that was that.
then a couple of months ago i spotted it being sold on ebay. i contacted the seller as it hadn’t sold at the time of the original ebay listing to find out whether it was still for sale and it was. i informed the police and managed to obtain the sellers details to the police. last week the police got a warrant to search the premises and managed to recover the bike and told me to make arrangements with the insurers to have the bike returned to me. i bought it back off the insurers and was expecting to get the bike back when the police informed me that i could not have it back.
they stated that as i had been paid out by the insurer that the bike had been lawfully sold by the thief to cash converters who had then lawfully sold it on to the guy the police eventually seized the bike from, and that an inter-pleader was in place to decide who is the legal owner of the bike. my understanding was that as the insurer had paid out if the bike was recovered then it would become the property of the insurer as they have effectively bought the bike from me…but i was told that the insurer has no claim on the bike whatsoever…and that it would be between the seller and cash converters. the police also stated that whoever gets to keep the bike would then have to keep the bike forever and would not be able to sell or give the bike away, nor would they be able to strip the bike down as they will be informed it is classed as stolen property and would be an offence if they tried to do this.
quick question to anyone with any legal/insurance experience….who technically owns the bike?
my understanding is that it is the insurer. everywhere i have looked also supports this but the police say different.

My 2p – the police are talking bollocks (can’t ever sell it again, ffs).

Your insurers own it.

(I am not a lawyer)

the police are talking bollocks

thats what i think too. i’m going to challenge their decision but i wanted to know of anyone had any similar experiences of this happening

the reason the police gave was a verbal one over the phone and i’ve asked them to give me their full reason in writing and am waiting for their response.

The Five-O are talking Bo-Lo!

the police also stated that whoever gets to keep the bike would then have to keep the bike forever and would not be able to sell or give the bike away, nor would they be able to strip the bike down as they will be informed it is classed as stolen property and would be an offence if they tried to do this.

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. No wonder no-one has any respect for the police any more. Do they only recruit morons nowadays?

second paragraph of “who owns the goods”: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_lost_found_and_uncollected_goods_e/stolen_goods.htm%5B/url%5D

How on earth do the police manage to be so incompetent?

Is it just a matter of the person you spoke to not knowing the law and making something up? Absolute disgrace. Maybe you should get in touch with someone like road.cc or even Singletrack to get some publicity round this if you have trouble getting them to play ball?

The Poolice are talking bobbins. Insurer owns it, for everyone else it’s tough titty (the person who bought it from CC will/may have a claim against them, but that’s nowt to do with you).

April fools’ was yesterday, maybe the copper was having a laugh ?

i got informed of this last thursday.
the case was originally being handled by a PCSO, and the warrant was executed by him and a pc who told me to contact the insurer and sort it out with them.
the pc has not bothered to get in touch with me since and i ended up dealing with the pcso…who was told not to give it back to me by his sergeant.
the sceptic in me seems to think that they’re intending on keeping hold of the bike and shifting it via one of their police auctions

Have you spoken to the insurers?

i’d actually paid the insurers the salvage fee to keep the bike but the police contacted them and bullied them into refunding me the money. obviously whoever took that call wasnt all that bothered and accepted their explanation.
i’ve got someone who works in the insurance trade looking into the ruling on this and if indeed the insurer does own the bike then i’m going to have to lean on them to get the bike back back.
its not even about the bike anymore but more about the principle and the fact that that the police are trying to pull a fast one.

Have you spoken to the insurers?

the insurers contacted me on last thursday to inform me they will be refunding the money back to me…but when i contested this the girl was completely clueless over the fact that they had paid me £3.5k for the bike and that it was now their property.
they basically accepted what the police told them without checking.

sounds like a nightmare. I hope you get it all sorted out and the bike back.

Utter BS.

How on earth do the police manage to be so incompetent?

Is it just a matter of the person you spoke to not knowing the law and making something up?

I don’t want to underestimate the Police’s ability to cock things up but this sounds both so inconsistent and wide of the mark that I suspect the OP may have misheard or misunderstood what was said to him. Just a possibility.

Well at least your bike did get recovered, sort of. Plod took 6 (yes SIX) weeks to knock on the door of someone selling my stolen stuff. Obviously it was long gone by then. Pfft.

This sounds absolutely nuts… It was stolen property that belonged to the insurance company if recovered…

I don’t want to underestimate the Police’s ability to cock things up but this sounds both so inconsistent and wide of the mark that I suspect the OP may have misheard or misunderstood what was said to him. Just a possibility.

i wish this was the case but it isnt…the officer told me an inter-pleader was in place and there were more than one party who had a claim on the bike and that the insurance company had no claim on the bike whatsoever and therefore i, being the original owner had no claim either.
i could understand why i had no claim on the bike as i had been paid out but for them to say the insurer had no claim of ownership on the bike was utter rubbish. i’m waiting for them to confirm this in writing before i take it any further.

…the bike had been lawfully sold by the thief to cash converters…

You what now?

I would assume that as your insurers paid out, they are effectively the owners of the recovered bike, but may be open to a negotiation for you to purchase it back (for about the value of your original claim) as they probably aren’t all that bothered about holding property, but do like money in the bank…

Talk to the insurance company, and the IPCC…

I was always told that receiving stolen goods was often treated as a more serious crime than the original offence. That would make Cash Converters culpable. Good luck with taken them to court…

Because the insurer paid you, the tea-leaf can then legally sell stolen goods to Cash Converters??!!

I’ve never heard such a crock of **** in my whole life.

edit – sorry, swear filter missed that naughty word. Manually filtered!

they are effectively the owners of the recovered bike, but may be open to a negotiation for you to purchase it back

i had contacted the insurers after it had been recovered and bought it back off them…but the police told them it wasnt theirs to sell and made them give me a refund.
what really pisses me off is that they have lied to the insurers and me over who actually owns the bike and accused the insurers of being “a bit naughty” when in fact they are the ones guilty of that!

Copper’s got a ‘new’ bike then 😉

to make things worse the police told me the lad who bought it paid 550 for it and that he wondered why the bike was so cheap and suspected it might be a bit dodgy (i.e. stolen)….also seen some of the other bikes cash converters sell on their website….lower spec bikes for more than what mine sold for. so therefore is it safe to assume that they paid far less than the 550 they sold the bike for? if thats the case did they not think it slightly odd that someone would bring in an expensive high spec bike to sell to them for a couple of hundred quid?…i reckon the staff in that particular store suspected that the bike was dodgy and sold it off cheap just to get rid of it.

In an ideal world it would be great to get Cash Converters convicted of receiving stolen goods as their shops are full of contraband and they aid and abet thieves. In the real world that’s just going to be a lost cause, especially as the feds obviously don’t care.

Really, this is farsical, How the hell can the theif legally ‘sell an item they’ve stolen’
Surely the present owner can claim from cash convertors, who in turn should have ensured the theif had legal entitlement.

Otherwise crime really does pay and the Law is a farce.

When you sell anything to Crack Converters you have to provide your personal details and complete a statement that you actually own the goods you are selling to them.
Of course there isn’t a single smack head out there that would sign that form and openly lie in order to get cash for a wrap or two. And I’m not talking about Cajun chicken wraps either.

I’d be escalating both with the insurers and the police.

The level of incompetence is quite alarming. I had my fence “deconstructed” (just for you Formerly Known As) during a police car chase. The attending officer came by later to take my statement and asses damage. I provided a quote to repair the fence and this was included with my statement.
The case went to court and the perps were slammed up n s**t. However, my statement and claim for fence repairs was never submitted and consequently I received bugger all. Later I contacted the police and asked what was happening. They informed me of their oversight, apologised and offered to pay the costs out of their funds. I told them they needed the money more than me and let it go.
My point though is if you press the issue and get to the right person, they are usually quite accommodating. Obviously, someone has told you a complete load of old……… and once you reach someone who recognises that, they will most likely want to make it right.
Asking for their decision in a written statement is a good step in the right direction.

As has been said by many, ownership lies with your insurer. If you really want to get to the bottom of it with them, call them back and advise that you wish to make a formal complaint. Their internal procedures will escalate it to someone who can actually be of assistance*.

*Possibly.

i have come up against this before, i used to work in a shop, built an Orange 5 SE for a customer, 6 months later it gets stolen, he’s insured, gets the money, buys another bike.

a few months later we get a call from another local shop asking for advice on a bike, turns out it’s the stolen orange 5, the “new owner” of the bike says he bought it on ebay (cheap) and collected it.

we weren’t sure what to do initially so we asked the local coppers whose police bikes we serviced regularly, they said it came down to whether or not the “new owner” bought the bike in “good faith” meaning that if the “new owner” had bought it not knowing he was buying stolen property then he was the rightful owner but if he bought it knowing it was stolen then he could be done for receiving stolen goods.

now that to me seems stupid (and i said that) because it would mean that even if the guy knew it was stolen all he has to say in defence is “i didn’t know”

the response was, did the original owner get an insurance pay out? yes, then ignore it as it’s too much hassle to get the bike back, then go through the hassle of returning it to the original owner.

what ever happened to criminals getting punished and people getting their property back?

sucks balls

what i don’t understand is why it doesn’t get investigated, ok they’ll say it costs too much for “just bike theft” but really? is it that hard for a copper to find out what happened? seems pretty easy and logical to me.

you go to the shop and get the “new owners” details, you get the ebay purchase details from him (it was local) then you go to the ebay sellers address and he is either the thief or the receiver of stolen goods, either way there is a prosecution. then the bike goes back to the original owner via the insurance company, and the “new owner” is told tough titty you should have guessed it was stolen, that’ll teach you to look at stuff more carefully or just not knowingly buy stolen stuff.

i’m sick of this sh**, i have only ever had one bike stolen, 20 years ago, but even now i hope that sod dies horribly by having his nuts cut off and bleeding out while being raped by a pack of wild elephants.

Former claims manager.

Unless the law has changed, you cannot legally buy a stolen item – the seller does not have legal title to sell it to you.

If the insurers have paid for it, it is theirs if it is recovered. Some bother, some don’t. My mate is about to single speed his recovered ti road bike as his insurers can’t be bothered to have it, and he’s already replaced it. Git!

As above. Police are talking rubbish. Insurer owns bike. It’s why in the car world you’re recommended to do checks before you buy to make sure it’s not on the stolen register.
New owner should get refund from cash converters.

the police got back to me yesterday with their reasoning on why they are holding onto the bike:

The reason we are unable to return the bike to yourself is as follows:

The individual who purchased the bike from Cash Generator had done so as a genuine lawful purchase and paid True Value (the value the seller had placed on it) in exchange for ownership of that property. He, nor Cash Generator at that time, had no reason to believe that property was stolen at that time of sale. As far as GMP are concerned, your insurance company should not have made you the offer of a settlement fee for return of the bike as they have never been in physical ownership of the property.

A civil process called an Interpleader is entered into between Cash Generator, your insurance company and the individual who purchased the bike in order to determine who claims ownership of the bike.

But if it was a car, you could be sure if I purchased it and was found to be a stolen vehicle I’d have it taken off me.

Is it the Police being lazy/too slow to understand that bikes can cost far in excess of a car?

just had an interesting conversation with the police.
the so called interpleader is now between cash generators and my insurance company. the lad who bought the bike from cash generators wants nothing to do with it and is filing his own civll case against cash generators.
the good news is that cash generators did take a picture of the individual who sold them the bike and have passed this and his other details onto the police.
however it seems that it is very unlikely that they asked for or were given sufficient proof of ownership when buying the bike and this will now count against them as they breached their own buying conditions when acquiring the bike.
now i need to put some serious pressure on my insurance company in order for them to get the bike back.

update: i contacted my insurer but it seems the police have scared them off and they now want nothing t do with it…but they did cheekily mention that if i did manage t get the bike back from the police then i should inform them and pay the salvage fee to keep the bike….cheeky pi55 taking barstewards!!
i’ve contacted the police for an update on whether they have had any luck tracking down whoever sold the bike to cash generators…as the info given by cash generators led them to believe this individual is the one who stole it and is known to them…no response
a also asked if they can confirm on what date the bike was sold to cash generators…if it was sold before i was paid out by the insurers then technically at the time of sale to cash generators i would still have been the legal owner of the bike….again it seems the police cant be bothered to respond…
something tells me that the police dont want me to get involved and dont want me to get the bike back…

Keep at it Gonzy. If people just let stuff like this lie, then there’s no reason for the 5-0, Cash Converters or the insurers to do the decent thing in future and get bike theives properly persued.

As someone up there mentioned, perhaps this needs to escalated into some kind or proper complaint.

something tells me that the police dont want me to get involved and dont want me to get the bike back…

Nope, they will make a good contibution to the christmas party widows & orphans fund at auction with that one….

either that or the guy that bought it belongs to the same lodge as the PCSO that’s talking shite!