[Closed] Who make Trek bikes?

No reliable information, but according to WikiPedia, Merida own 49% of Specialized, and make their bikes, while Kinesis make Treks

I thought Giant make Trek bikes, in their Uber factory in Taiwan?

I've got two Merida's - they look very similar to both brands mentioned above...

Along with Giant, there aren't many factories building frames (out of aluminium)

Merida's will look a lot like Boardmans too 😉 .

Yup, got one of them too

There's a pattern 🙂

Someone will point out how similar the new Hoy road bike is in a minute

is it important? modern business rarely are in the business of design and manufacture - normally one or the other.

Does it matter what name the factory comes out of?

2 identical carbon frames, one from de rosa one from ebay, first one has paint and customer back up, uk base for returns, UK consumer rights etc. 2nd one has no paint, risk of import tax & return to base warranty.

Manufacturing is only one piece of the puzzle.

Pretty sure it's gaint they make more or less all the bikes in Taiwan especially the carbon frames

Ultimately it doesn't matter - the factory is just building to a drawing/CAD Model/design/spec, issued by a design dept.

[url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/03/11/factory-tour-trek-bicycle-companys-waterloo-headquarters-part-1/ ]Trek Factory Tour[/url], they do very much make all their top end OCLV frames there. Until a few years ago it was all OCLV frames, now it's just the really expensive ones!

I thought their alu frames are made in a factory owned by Kinesis, not their OCLV ones though, forget who owns the factory (and there's a distinction there) where they make the OCLV frames though.

But really... WGAS?

slightly OT but are Focus Bikes and Canyon the same company? both german and their websites are very similar

njee20 - Member
But really... WGAS?

I do.

Not broken a frame for ages.

If I can get the same thing, or very, very similar for a hell of a saving I would.

I sort of know about steel and ally:
I've read up about them, used them a lot and like to think I can tell the difference between an overhyped 'best new thing ever' and a decent bit of kit.
I know what I like.
I'm sure we all do.

With carbon, I'm clueless:
As I said, I know what I like when I ride it.

BUT:
I'd like to know how, where and why it's made the way it is.

Steel frame designers fall over themselves to explain their designs: tube materials & profiles, along with the relevant relationships between the two - all laid out in loving detail, usually accompanied by a picture of a shed, the Dales, hairy people and mud.

Can I find this info regarding carbon?
No.
I have no idea about material choice an how it influences design.

Only two or three big manufacturers seem prepared to put any decent investment into their designs and the marketing thereof.

So until Orange, Ribble, Planet X etc come clean about the level of design input & control they excercise over the manufacturing process, we're pretty much buying the cheaper stuff blind.

Not ideal, is it?

Certainly up until recently, Giant built a lot of Treks bikes. Dunno about now.

slightly OT but are Focus Bikes and Canyon the same company? both german and their websites are very similar

not to my knowledge (opposite sides of the country)

but there are other mfrs in Germany that do have seemingly identical frames to each other (Droessiger, Vortrieb, Cucuma, early model Transalp, and some others - Hibike perhaps?). Not just similar, but even down to borrowing the geometry graphic from Droessiger!

did wonder about some of the other brand names more common in UK

I've got two carbon Pronghorn hardtails (SS and geared, not two the same) Anyway, they are identical to the top-end Raleigh M-Trax. No idea who makes them, clearly not Pronghorn themselves as they haven't broken yet...
My Yeti was made in Taiwan, don't know which factory. So was my Marin, but that's alloy.
Where are Scott bikes made? I beleive the company is Swiss but no idea where the factory is? I've got a top-end Plasma from about 2009 and haven't a clue where that's from.

[url= http://inrng.com/who-makes-what/ ]who makes what[/url]

my Ti HT was made in Italy 😯
here's the man that did it
[img] [/img]

So until Orange, Ribble, Planet X etc come clean about the level of design input & control they excercise over the manufacturing process, we're pretty much buying the cheaper stuff blind.

So basically you want to know if a £300 Planet X frame is actually the same as a £4000 Madone 7 Series? I'll give you one guess.

even if two frames are the same, off the same line from the same molds, two manufacturers can have differing idea of what is acceptable as far as QC goes.

Then there is the back up if it goes wrong, think of it like an insurance policy.

Not sure how accurate that is about Merida owning a big chunk of Spesh.
It was but thought Spesh have been buying back from Merida.

The cheaper specialized now come from the same factory as landrover use but the product is very different

njee.

I want to know exactly how & why the Planet X & Ribble frames differ from the Trek, Giant & Specialised.
Can you tell me?

I want to know exactly how & why the Planet X & Ribble frames differ from the Trek, Giant & Specialised.
Can you tell me?

The bigger the company, the more financial clout they have. This translates to having more control over the design, the QC, and the finished product.

Planet X and Ribble don't have the same influence, which [i]might[/i] not make any difference to you the consumer, but does have a difference when the actual product is considered.

I've got a 'Made in Wisconsin' Trek OCLV frame, I bought it in 1999 and it is still going strong despite a number of crashes. The frame has a lifetime warranty.

So until Orange, Ribble, Planet X etc come clean about the level of design input & control they excercise over the manufacturing process, we're pretty much buying the cheaper stuff blind.

Orange:

[quoteSo basically you want to know if a £300 Planet X frame is actually the same as a £4000 Madone 7 Series? I'll give you one guess.

I'll bet ya fifty quid njee owns a trek... 😆

crikey - Member

The bigger the company, the more financial clout they have.
This translates to having more control over the design, the QC, and the finished product.

Planet X and Ribble don't have the same influence, which might not make any difference to you the consumer, but does have a difference when the actual product is considered.

I've got a 'Made in Wisconsin' Trek OCLV frame, I bought it in 1999 and it is still going strong despite a number of crashes. The frame has a lifetime warranty.

So that'll be 'no, I can't answer the question' then? 😀

The big three obviously have more financial muscle - I want to know how this relates to actual, physical differences in the sourcing, design, manufacture & durability of the product.

I want to know exactly how & why the Planet X & Ribble frames differ from the Trek, Giant & Specialised.
Can you tell me?

the carbon and lay-up used in construction, research behind the design and the name on the bike.

the carbon and lay-up used in construction,

OK - so how do they differ, why do they differ & how does this affect the performance & durability of the product?

Well, if you'll provide a number of the frames you would like to compare, I'll chop them up and we can have a look....

The other test bed is Pro cycling, so we could look at how many Ribble frames or Planet X frames get used in the winning of races.

As I said, it may not make any difference to you, the consumer, but my experience of 'high end' frames is that they do what they say on the tin, and that is backed by a decent warranty.

I don't think there is any magic involved in carbon frame construction, but it is important to get it right. P-X and Ribble get it right, Trek et al get it right too.

I'll bet ya fifty quid njee owns a trek...

Whether he does or he doesn't is largely irrelevant. The fact of the matter is he clearly understands what goes into a high end frame vs a budget one, and its not just a higher labour rate in the US than in China!

In fact, many of the most expensive frames on the market these days are made in Taiwan, "cheap foreign labour" has pretty much no impact on the cost of a product once you're past the cheap and nasty end of the scale. It has far more to do with R&D and use of cutting edge materials and production processes, which the likes of Giant and Merida (and others) happen to be world class at!

So....who make Trek bikes?!?!? Does anybody actually know?

errrrr... no

trek make some treks

I feakin love this subject. It really appeals to me for some reason. That website in wobbem's post is fascinating, it looks like Giant make at least some of Trek's stuff...

And some are made in the US.

And yes, I own 2 US made ones. I don't care where it comes from I must say. I buy a bike because I like it, not because of who's name is on the factory it comes out of. I do really want a Madone 7 Series, and I'd still want one if they were made by Giant/Hasa/Kinesis, because it would still be a damn nice bike with millions spent on R&D.

Edit: evidence? well there's all the wind tunnel stuff. P-X were very open their 'aero' road bike never saw one. All the kamm tail stuff is interesting too. The brake placement. What about the Domane as a concept? The McLaren Venge?

mboy - Member

Whether he does or he doesn't is largely irrelevant. The fact of the matter is he clearly understands what goes into a high end frame vs a budget one, and its not just a higher labour rate in the US than in China!

Well if you or he would like to provide some details, I'm all ears. 😀
Facts, btw, not just 'better materials, more R & D'.

The interesting thing is the way people regard bikes built in sheds as the pinnacle of bicycle design and engineering, and dismiss those built on a production line as somehow soulless and dull.

Give me dull and quality controlled stuff when I'm going downhill at 40 miles an hour every time......

Trek alloy and 3/4/5 series carbon bikes are made in Taiwan by the same factory as giant bikes (giant make bikes for almost everyone such as santacruz,colnago, scott etc.)
The difference in carbon at the low end is not that much in my opinion. A carbon Trek 3 series is probably similar to a planet x.
a 5 series trek madone or domane is very different. The lay up of the carbon will be different around the BB or head tube for example. The bearings may press straight into a net molded carbon headtube/BB shell (trek) rather than an alloy insert (planet x).
Having seen a fair bit of carbon frames in my time I can say for sure that Trek are one of the best. Better than giant or spesh? dunno but better than planet x and a host of other cheap frames yes.

I have seen carbon bikes from Orbea and Wilier that still have bits of bladder from the Mold stuffed into the frame. I have seen Look frames with bits of newspaper still inside the down tube - not exactly high quality. I have worked on IBIS bikes where the headtube had bits of unfinished carbon inside preventing a fork being fitted. I never saw this on a Trek.

Trek Madone 5 series and above frames have fancy KVF tube profiles that "produce an extra 25 watts of power" and make you faster if you choose to believe it.

The Trek 6 and 7 series road bikes (and session 9.9) are all made in the USA.

Hmmm. The more I read about it ([url= http://cyclingiq.com/2012/02/14/shadow-optic-the-manufacturing-partner-paradox/ ]another good article[/url]) the more it looks like the big manufacturers like Trek and Specialized like to sread their manufacturing across several factories, some in Taiwan and China but also more recently in Thailand and Vietnam, the idea being that this is the best way to use competition between the factories as a bargaining point to get the prices down

Ah, sorry klunky, you posted while I was still writing. Looks like you know your stuff!

The cheapest trek bikes i.e. £300 bikes etc. come from all over the place. I have seen the same bike with different "made in" stickers on it depending on how far through the season it is. Taiwan, China and ****stan if memory serves correctly. I cant be 100% though as I'm less interested in £300 mountain bikes than £3000 carbon bikes 😀

The real cheap bikes from Raleigh etc. seem to come from Cambodia and Vietnam if you care.

I'm not convinced about all the "made in the same factory" fakes. The original chinarellos are an example where the seat tube was completely different.
Also different layout of the carbon and bonding of the parts together. I would also be doubtful that the same resin is used in the construction, which will make a massive difference.

This PDF published by Bicycle Retailer seems to tell all, though dated 2012 but no info on individual models and US based companies only.

[url= http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/downloads/resource/Factory_10_1_11.pdf ]linky[/url]

Steel frame designers fall over themselves to explain their designs: tube materials & profiles, along with the relevant relationships between the two - all laid out in loving detail, usually accompanied by a picture of a shed, the Dales, hairy people and mud.

Oh and I thought that was just all marketing bollocks to try and pursuade people to buy heavy lumps of steel when they could buy lighter and better carbon or aluminium frames.

From my perspective all the concern regarding where things are made is immaterial. It's a tool; I don't care where my hammer was made, I care that it knocks nails in without falling to bits.

At Planet X, OnOne and Titus, for frames we are currently using seven different carbon factories.

The OnOne carbon mountainbikes and the RT57 are done at one place that also make for Focus.

Titus frames are made somewhere else where I spotted the new Turner being tested last October and who also make for BMC.

The Pro Carbon, Stealth and Carbon track frames are made at a place that makes for Trek, Specialized, GT, Cinelli and lots of others. They are huge. We are working with them on some new stuff.

The Exocet2 and N2a are made somewhere else. Awesome facility making very high end product for lots of other
people.

The Dirty Disco is made somewhere else. A widespread supplier.

The RT58 and Dirty Harry are made somewhere else again. A quality factory with very clever production and moulding techniques who like working with us.

And finally and best of all, Sarto Antonio in Padova, Italy who we prototype with and help us make sub 600g frames that were too light to use for Aileens Olympic bike.

Few posts so far from cycling IQ but the best dissection I have ever read on the whole bike supply chain is this series of articles, a very good read if you are into the history of it all:
[url= http://cyclingiq.com/vertical-limit/ ]http://cyclingiq.com/vertical-limit/[/url]

I have a carbon Santa Cruz and a USA made Madone, and whilst I am sure that carbon Yetis or Specialized or Giants are perfectly well put together and would do everything I could ask of them and have years of flawless service and enjoyment, I will not switch brands as I put an awful lot of stock into the willingness of manufacturers to show exactly what they do and why, and constantly refine their design in the names of advancement and development. It doesn't take a lot of browsing to see exactly how much thought goes into every aspect of these frames (and destruction testing), and that's good enough for me 🙂

I got a Trek bike box from my local dealer for shipping a bike a year ago and it said made and tested by Giant, I remember being quite surprised at the time as all my mates with Treks are always spouting about made in the USA etc

Thanks brant, some great info there! Is it possible to name the factories or is that asking too much? I never realised that there would be so much secrecy surrounding this subject!

I have no idea where I picked this up, but frame builders aren't cheap labour in Taiwan at least. Given the volumes just imagine the experience they gain. Since we don't know the quality of the production processes involved or the skill of the labour it's impossible to say who produces the best product, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Taiwanese is better or no worse than some boutique brand made in the West. Therefore I don't care where it's made, but rather how it rides and whether there have been any reports of manufacturing defects or breakages due to poor design.

As a side note, the last S-Works HT frame I bought in roughly 2001 had a sticker on it that said something like handmade in the USA of imported parts. I believe such statements can be fairly misleading since they can equate to assembly or finishing, rather than manufacture origin. I'm trying to remember though if it said handmade, made, or assembled. It was the first year they added disc mounts, which was why I updated from the previous year's frame ano black version which just had a simple handmade in the USA sticker.

whilst I am sure that carbon Yetis or Specialized or Giants are perfectly well put together and would do everything I could ask of them and have years of flawless service and enjoyment, I will not switch brands as I put an awful lot of stock into the willingness of manufacturers to show exactly what they do and why, and constantly refine their design in the names of advancement and development

Are you honestly saying that Specialized don't "constantly refine their designs" because they make their bikes in Taiwan?! They used to make all their carbon bikes in the US. They shifted it to the East because quality was better!

I think people get far too hung up on this, the frame may come out of a factory with someone else's name on it, but that's not to say that an S-Works Epic is anything like an Anthem Advanced in any way! Spesh have their own employees with things being done to their own spec.

It's funny how divisive this topic is, people either seem to really care, or they really don't!

I'm pondering a hong-fu

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2013-new-road-HF-FM066-266.html

What I'd be interested to know is how much of the design comes from the bike company as opposed to what the frame manufacturer has developed, offers themselves, or is willing to make. Effectively, how much R&D is really being done to warrant the value added to premium product. You hear stories about frames being chosen from a catalogue, which is probably the kind of notion winding people up between paying branded and no name.

What a boutique frame builder can do with steel for example is dependent on available tube sets, or at least that's what used to be the case. A similar thing was going on with all those Ali with carbon stay road frames in the early 2000s. I remember reading about how a new carbon tube set from Reynolds would open up carbon frame manufacture. Finally I'm pretty sure Giant is acknowledged as the developer of fluid formed tubing.

Finally I'm pretty sure Giant is acknowledged as the developer of fluid formed tubing.

I saw a funny quote the other day about how a company had developed a new tube forming process. Which was news to me as some of our frames have been being made like that for over three years.

I can't do the hype. Hence DN6 and Maxwall.

What I'd be interested to know is how much of the design comes from the bike company as opposed to what the frame manufacturer has developed, offers themselves, or is willing to make. Effectively, how much R&D is really being done to warrant the value added to premium product. You hear stories about frames being chosen from a catalogue, which is probably the kind of notion winding people up between paying branded and no name.

Geometry, ride feel, construction and layup methods here.
I don't get into specific fibre orientation as there are engineers better than me at that, but we do test deflections and try to gauge ride feel.

Clunky and brant are pretty close. Trek still manufacture in Wisconsin and their entire engineering, testing, design etc are based at the same building as the carbon assembly, the 5 series and below are outsourced to two seperate Taiwanese companies. They manufacture our frames to our precise spec and precise oclv construction method. Obviously we have full time employees checking quality and continual testing of product to keep controls high. The alloy frames are made in Taiwan by mainly giant. Again these frames are not re-badged giants! We have tight control on designs and tube shapes- and we own a lot of the machines that produce our technology. We do not currently produce in Vietnam, Malaysia etc. we also do not use Merida- who make a stack of other brands frames with great quality.
Alloy prototypes and special one off pro riders frames can still be made in Wisconsin, but these are pretty expensive custom runs.
All treks are designed, and tested by trek- we don't buy 'off the shelf' designs from far eastern companies, which is obviously the cheapest way to produce a frame.

Great stuff trekcol. I was commenting generally rather than specifically questioning Trek, but fantastic to get a straight up answer.

Could the rest of the brands now state their position? Ta, thanks 🙂

All this is nothing new. Loads of bikes from different brands back in the early 90's came out of the same few Taiwanese factories. Seem to remember Orange using a company called A-Pro, as did others. Didn't mean they were all the same as some are suggesting.