I've been trying to find an interview I read a while ago where a veteran of the Somme talks about why he never wore a poppy, laid a wreath or contributed to the British Legion. I will continue looking because I don't want to paraphrase him but it's pretty much to do with the situations that caused the gas story above.
Still no joy but the sentiments expressed in this column are very similar:
Thanks for the replies everyone. Just like to clear a couple of things up:
B.A.Nana
So, why did you edit my post? from 'shot down and killed over Dresden', to just 'shot down over Dresden', did it suit you better?
I though that the context of the original post, a family remembering someone who was shot down implied that they had been killed, but it looks like I was wrong. For that I apologise and if I could go back and edit my post I would. My point, which stays the same with or without the word killed, was to contrast two points of view, one who mourned all dead and one who thought little of the opposition. If your post was meant tongue in cheek and you don't think all 25,000 people who died in one raid on Dresden were 'bastids' then I missed that implication and again I apologise. Again, if the raid you mention was solely on military targets, I apologise. I just think the word 'soldiers' would have sounded better.
Too Tall
Why do the opinions of a load of randoms on a cycling website count in forming yours?
I know, I know, INRATS.
I try and remember all combatants really, but focus on the people closest to me and they're mostly English. I do have some German relatives as well so it would be nonsensical to forget their suffering. Reading things like All Quiet on the Western Front and Slaughterhouse 5 has influenced that opinion.
My great grandfather......fought in the great war and was injured 3 times, once being the only survivor of a patrol that got hit by a shell. A true hero
I don't wish to undermine the actions of your great grandfather, but I can't see how this made him a true hero.
My Grandfather who I never knew. He was killed at Arnhem. A few years ago I went there with my Father, his Son, on the 65th Celebration of Dutch Liberation. There was only one Veteran left from my Grandfathers unit & I was privileged to meet him. Even more so when I was presented with a wreath of Red Poppies to lay..Biggest lump in my throat ever when I saluted that Memorial alone with several thousand Dutch watching..I did my best to make the salute a good one..not just for my Grandfather but also for his comrades who didn't make it & the ones I didn't know, the ones I'll never know & for those yet to die..
but I can't see how this made him a true hero.
I've no idea how nomakoman's great grandfather ended up fighting for all of us in WW1 but most volunteered and that makes them super heroes as far as I'm concerned
Interesting point, uplink, but facing the social stigma for staying at home may have been even braver.
In August 1914, at the start of the First World War, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather with support from the prominent author Mrs Humphrey Ward. The organisation aimed to coerce men to enlist in the British Army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform.
In 1916 conscription was introduced.
Still, nomakoman's great grandfather undoubtedly lived things which would turn our hair white. Remember the tragedy of men who went having been sold an idea that wasn't 100% true. Your Country Needs You! (to go and defend France).
Double post. Have a poem.
What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, –
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.
CharlieMungus - Member
I don't wish to undermine the actions of your great grandfather, but I can't see how this made him a true hero.
Any man who climbs out of a trench and advances into machine gun and artillery fire is a hero IMO.
Footballers et al, aren't.
Interesting point, uplink, but facing the social stigma for staying at home may have been even braver.
Staying at home and being given feathers braver than going to the front line and facing machine guns?
No, just no.
This year I was in a woodland area in a school playground doing forest school stuff. We had our 2 minutes silence and I remembered my grandad, who died a couple of weeks ago at 93. Knew he'd been in WWII but never talked about it. Found out at the funeral service he'd just got off the beach at Cherbourg at the time of Dunkirk evacuation with German forces pouring onto either end of the beach. I imagine there's lots of other stories he never voiced. So this year I remembered him.
I think about the men and women of the world wars who were defending our country from foreign invasion and the more recent casualties who keep us a little safer from fruitcake idealogies around the world.
Footballers et al, aren't.
"In his native Brazil, Pelé is hailed as a national hero." from wiki...
not trying to undermine remembrance day, but heros aren't just from the army
Wrecker
Staying at home and being given feathers braver than going to the front line and facing machine guns?
No, just no.
Yeah, you're right. When I read that back I tried to edit but I was too late. What I was trying to say was that at the time the pressure to go serve was immense. Recruitment posters screamed 'GO FIGHT!!' and the prevailing mood was that anyone who didn't was shirking thier responsibility to the country and fellow country men. Look at these
Unfortunately the reality of bombs and bullets was a far cry from the macho image sold by the posters. Do you think if the poster said 'Come to France and get shot to pieces for Me?' with a picture of a Frenchman on it would have had quite the same impact? Lets not forget Britain was quite comfortable on the world stage at the time, being in control of 2/3 of the globe. They were fighting a war on behalf of France and Belgium.
All this I imagine became apparent to the volunteers once they arrived in the trenches, but by then it was too late. Their sense of social responsiblity had been manipulated to get them to fight someone else's war. Brave in the face of horrific conditions? Undoubtedly. Brave at the time of volunteering? Shamelessy sold out and manipulated by the same people that made them walk slowly towards a machine gun. Tragic, and that's what I'll remember.
Lets not forget Britain was quite comfortable on the world stage at the time, being in control of 2/3 of the globe. They were fighting a war on behalf of France and Belgium.
Don't think it was fighting on the behalf of France and Belgium as such. The first world war was the ultimate war of imperialism. Started for such ridiculous reasons.
I'm proud of what the soldiers did, not proud of the reasons why they had to do it.
who keep us a little safer from fruitcake idealogies around the world.
See above. Even today we are still fighting wars based on an idealogy.
Sonor: 'on behalf of' from a 'get off my land' perspective.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA
IanW: Do you also mourn the foreign dead left in the wake of British Imperialism (otherwise known as invading other countries) or is World Domination one of the more noble idealogies?
Remember ther dead, remember their bravery, but also never forget who sent them there to die.
Thanks again to everyone who has contributed. We have strayed a little off topic but it's made for interesting reading.
My personal remmembrance this year will take in all these contributions.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwxhg2CNb0o
There's a pretty firm distinction between condoning war and honouring the memory of those who died.
To them all.
I remember one of my best school mates who was killed at Warrenpoint over 30 years ago - RIP Nick!
epicyclo - Member
CharlieMungus - Member
I don't wish to undermine the actions of your great grandfather, but I can't see how this made him a true hero.
Any man who climbs out of a trench and advances into machine gun and artillery fire is a hero IMO.
[quote]
I'd tend to agree there, but I think in reality few actually had any choice in this activity. But this was not one of the activities cited, which is why i asked the question
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