Who built the trail centres? Specifically those in Wales but elsewhere of interest to. Do they do the dirt digging too or just the design, is there a contractor with specific skills in trail construction.

keppoch.

http://traildesign.com/ ?

Welsh ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dafydd_Davis

from wiki

new sport of Mountain Biking

🙄

also rowen sorrel had a part in *some* of the welsh ones

rik alsop of riks bike shed, drumlanrig started of at mabie.

MBR? MBUK ran a feature of trail centres a while back – rode & discussed one each issue with a/ the trail builder (often daffyd davies) and always had a box out on the designer.

Rowan Sorrell (Brechfa)
http://www.back-on-track.org/service.htm

Phil Saxena (Cwm Carn)
http://www.fullcontactracing.com/

Russell Burton (Grizedale)
http://www.russellburton.co.uk/

Are some off the top of my head.

And lots of volunteer groups too – Chase Trails, Redlands, Singletraction, Hamsterly Trailblazers and Carron Valley.

Some people just do the design and then flag out the trail for the digger drivers, but other designers also muck in and do some of the actual building.

Most of the ones in the Peak District were designed by stone age man.

I thought this was going to be a creationist thread

Russell Burton was the ‘trailmaster’ in MBUK, who goes round reviewing trail centres – seems a bit rich when he is critical of other centres given what a rubbish job he did with Grizedale! 😛

Try Ian Warby at the CTC, designed the Aston Hill trails

I think the North Face trail fulfilled its design brief including a limited budget

To me its a family friendly option with loads of real riding nearby

I’ve met Russell once or twice and he comes across as a “by the book” sort of builder, i.e. someone who’s going to turn in a trail that fits the design brief and IMBA’s criteria, but isn’t necessarily going to turn trail design on its head.

Coed Llandegla was Rowan Sorrell as was parts of afan IIRC.

And lots of volunteer groups too… …Carron Valley

Designer – Paul Masson (Cycletherapy)
Contractor – WB Grieve Groundworks

Marty, I think the work at Carron Valley started with volunteers – DickBarton off this forum was one – and then was picked up by the FC (not entirely sure what happened to be honest although I understand there was a bit of a kerfuffle about it).

Seems like in lots of places there are local mountain bikers kicking things off, then it gets taken up and run with. That’s what’s happened in places like Stainburn and Hamsterley, hopefully happening in Bristol soon too.

Oddly he slates Cannock, which other than the three random drops to flat which serve no purpous other than slowing riders down uncomfortably and with maximum chain slap and the uphill log ride to flat drop (which can be avoided), is IMO one of the flowiest and best trails arroud (bear in mind there are no real hills, yet the whole place feels like a succession of downhills.

Huw Clixby of http://www.clixbys.co.uk/mountain_biking_trails.html

Built a lot of the Forestry Commission stuff in Yorkshire (Dalby, Stainburn (parts) and Whinlatter). Huw’s a lovely fella and well worth talking to if you want a skilled and knowledgeable contractor. Not sure if he does the over-arching design but he certainly designs / makes sure the features and sections work. It’s pointless having a contractor just blindly following a plan, you need someone who understands how trails work and get ridden.

There are always constraints in a project (money, materials, clients, stakeholders, topography, ecology, archaeology). You’ve got to be careful how you judge people and their work (because quite often it isn’t only “their” work.

SingletrAction designed most of Dalby (not the skills park that was Adrian at Pace) and all of Stainburn. We planned and flagged Wharncliffe but there’s loads of problems there (not of our making). We’ve done or been involved in other stuff as well e.g. the Skills Spot at Buck Woods in Thackley.

MBR did an interview with Phil Saxena about a JV between him, Capita Symonds and Dinsdale Moorland Services (Dinsdale did some of the trails at Kielder) offering (I imagine) the full service. I worked for Capita and don’t like them but have only ever heard good stuff of Phil and know Gareth who seems a top chap.

SingletrAction also do quite a bit of building in Yorkshire or try and help other volunteer groups out to do it themselves.

Forestry Commission / Enterprise also have in house engineers and employ people like Huw and Gareth to do work to their designs. FE engineer is a guy called Martin O’Vaster. Usually running around with his ass on fire 😉

Lee Quarry was built in two stages so far (IIRC). Stage 1 by a contractor who I can’t remember (but from what I understand cost a lot of money – Terra something) and Stage 2 designed (and built?) by Rowan Sorrell.

http://chasetrails.blogspot.com

Marty, I think the work at Carron Valley started with volunteers
Yup, but the trail in use now was designed by Paul (with the input of the volunteers) and built by Grieves (with volunteers doing prep and snagging).

and then was picked up by the FC
er, no.

not entirely sure what happened to be honest although I understand there was a bit of a kerfuffle about it
read all about it

Oh, and we’re still running with Stainbur, ta 😉 I just wish we could get loads of cash to have Norwood done by contractors (to our designs, natch 😉

Quite often things get lost in translation between riders/designers and it being built. Then again, a lot of riders couldn’t design a trail if they tried. It isn’t complicated but it’s really, really easy to get wrong.

IMO 😎

Cheeky and Mr Agreeable nail it right there, I think.

Redlands (and latterly Hurtwood Volunteers) tend more toward the mass input side of things – there’s no single person making decisions. We also have to be mindful of all of the factors Cheeky mentions – the last big job was at the behest of the landowner and Natural England, to get round a scheduled ancient monument.

Oddly he slates Cannock, which other than the three random drops to flat which serve no purpous other than slowing riders down uncomfortably and with maximum chain slap and the uphill log ride to flat drop (which can be avoided), is IMO one of the flowiest and best trails arroud (bear in mind there are no real hills, yet the whole place feels like a succession of downhills.

We are talking about the Follow the Dog trail here aren’t we? 🙄

read all about it

That’s some pretty depressing stuff right there. 🙁

Dalbeattie, the first D&G Stane

I`m hiding behind Andy

http://www.imba.com/international/slideshows/scotland01.html

Karl Bartlett(imba uk) was instrumental as a FE Ranger for the Ae District in getting the D&G Stanes off the ground. Andy joined the team about 6mths after when they thought they knew what they were doing!!!!

Before that Pete Laing of Glentress fame was advising.

Andy now has Tally of upliftscotland fame as a “contractor” doing the digging bit.

Chris Ross, FE manager for Kirry area is responsible for a lot of Kirry design, shows his riding style imo.

As for trailbuilding. All the guys have learned as they have gone, none are “specialists” employed because of any construction engineering qualifications. They are basically winging it!!!!!

eg Pete was a mech/elect project eng. Andy was working in a bike shop but is a cabinet maker. Rik was something in IT.

Happened to meet the Welsh traibuilding Mafia, inc Burton, on a course at Coed y B in 2001 run by Daffyd Davies OBE.

Design starts with forest, map, draw wish list line, hike, bike, crawl route. File to landowner and wait til all the various processes have been completed.

This is the bit that our mag could do an article on(Chipps/Mark/Dave)

Pete Laing was the guy behind the original purpose-built Glentress trails. Currently the trails there are designed by Andy Wardman, presumably other MTB ranger too and I think Dick Hamilton is involved, particularly with anything involving jumps.

In my experience these people definitely get their hands dirty too and I think they generally consider that an important part of their jobs. They get contractors in to help with the building, particularly when it involves the use of heavy machinery (diggers and the like). They also run trailbuilding sessions for local volunteers, too.

Marty – thanks for that link. Depressing but necessary reading…

Just goes to show how badly things can fall apart. I know as a volunteer that you can invest masses of time and effort into something and it’s heartbreaking being told you have to undo something you’re slaved over, or that it can’t go ahead in the form you planned. The delays and the beaureaucracy can be enough to drive you mad too. Hope both sides learned from the experience.

In the case of Gisburn Forest trails, which are being constructed right now, it’s FC/FE head forester Martin Colledge who is in overall charge of the project, certainly on the ground. But it seems that FC, Lancs council and United Utilities (the land owner) and possible one or two other ‘partners’ all have a vested interest in the project to some degree or other.
Anyway, Rowan Sorrell marked out the red route last year, Martin has led the volunteer building over the winter. Earlier this year, Contractors tendered for the contractor build sections including Rowan Sorrells company. A local contractor got the work (Martin was keen to use local businesses where possible). Nikki from Rowan Sorrells co. came in to oversee the contractors as they had little or no idea how to build MTB specific trails.

I believe that Rowan Sorrell will be building some trails in the grounds of the school I work in. RESULT! Hopefully some of the pupils will be interested in doing some of the manual labour, insurance etc permitting.