Watching the bbc news last week about the Afghans in Calais trying to get on lorries to England. So the SO pipes up and says “Oh its not that bad, just let them in. Look, there’s only 50 or so in the soup kitchen queue – how’s that gonna hurt our country?”. I pointed out that its a snapshot of the situation, its been going on for years, if we let them in we have to let them all in and then they bring in their families etc and its better to deal with the root of the problem, ie why they’re fleeing Afghanistan (being a whole other topic). Apparently this was a knee-jerk, daily mail readers reaction (never read the daily mail) and because she’s read about it in the Guardian she’s right. Effectively because she took the liberal, nicey-nice approach she had the moral high ground and proceeded to point out that all of the shitty cleaning, burger flipping jobs are done by immigrants and we’d be screwed without them. My response was that there are plenty British people on benefits who could do these jobs without the need for immigrants. Her point that these British people might not want to do these jobs seems somewhat irrelevant, although granted in these times of economic slump there will be people from much higher positions on the dole but thats because of the recession, not unwillingness to work.

It went on a bit, but I was a bit peeved to have my opinion labelled as a knee jerk reaction, albeit not seriously as I haven’t actually read much at all on it and so my arguments may be unfounded. And because I don’t have time to read up on it currently what do yous reckon – should we open our borders? Do we NEED immigrants to fill the employment gap? And another point made, is there loads of empty houses in NE England which can accommodate them and indeed should be filled by them? (I don’t know where she got that from).

Many people are scared of being an individual and will resort to picking a social belief system from those offered to them by the media.

Therefore they accept all the supposed ‘key beliefs’ of that particular system without questioning them properly. This is where you get knee jerk reactions from.
I would say that there are two absolutely textbook examples on this forum, both extremely prolific posters, but no names, no pack-drill eh?

Don’t see many pro immigration Mail readers, pro hunting Guardianistas or
social liberal Telegraph readers.

Independent thought is scary, as you often have to justify your beliefs to people who question your right to step outside the box. Others get offended as they start to question their own lazy thinking.

It’s easier to appeal to the lazy minded, so that’s what the media does.

So, neither paper is correct.
But both of you are if you’ve questioned your beliefs and can argue why you’ve come to your conclusions.

If there wasn’t a steady stream of immigration wouldn’t we be worried about the top-heavy population issue instead?

Not sure what your thread title is asking though. Which paper you think is “right” on immigration depends on which views you already hold (or which value-set you subscribe to, as Rusty points out).

I’d say immigration was the least of this country’s problems at the moment, tbh.

Its not so much which paper is right – they’ll always be partisan to some extent. So the title’s maybe not my question. I just have an opinion on the matter but can’t back it up and therefore couldn’t argue my case. Is this country not already bursting at the seems?

jimmy – you’re in Scotland?? That affects the dynamic somewhat as it’s generally accepted that Scotland could do with more workers / immigrants on account of an otherwise shrinking population. Reading a “UK” paper won’t usually take account of this.

pro hunting Guardianistas

ahem.
* lifts arm *

And me Stoner.

Love arguing with anti-hunt bods.
Just too, too easy.

It’s easier to appeal to the lazy minded, so that’s what the media does.

The media appeals to its market share – that’s the point. So you are more likely to buy a paper that appeals to your sensibilities. It’s not really being lazy. I’m sure the most intellectually active people in the country have a favourite paper.

I just have an opinion on the matter but can’t back it up and therefore couldn’t argue my case.

Well you shouldn’t be trying to argue your case if you can’t back it up ???????

Seems to me that you need to find some answers to your questions before you can start forming an opinion based on those answers.

Molgrips,

Was trying to say that many people swallow the ALL the opinions presented to them whole, without questioning them. I’m sure as a free-thinking individual of a certain age?!? you don’t agree with everything in your chosen rag?

I swap between the Indy and the Guardian during the week, but love the Telegraph on a Saturday and Sunday. Reading and considering others viewpoints helps me to question my beliefs and to check I’m not becoming guilty of ‘Knee-Jerkism’.

I hope.

In the case of hunting, I’ve always found that the breakdown of opinion tends not to be along class/political lines, but whether you live in the countryside or in an urban environment.
However, because many large urban communities, particularly in the North have traditionally been Labour supporting, The Guardian is traditionally anti-hunting.

Holy Grail logic unfortunately – Witches float, as do ducks, so what do we do etc. etc.

Incredibly complicated subject, but my point is that it is very easy to become intellectually lazy.

I think Britain should invade Australia, and turn it into British land. Then, loads of people could go there, and there’s plenty of resources to sustain a far higher population than they already have. In fact, it’s greedy and selfish of them to have such strict immigration laws, tbh.

I’d imagine the ‘swarms’ of immigrants trying to get into Britain will decrease somewhat, as people realise this country is fecked, economically, and there aren’t the economic rewards to be had.

I don’t really see the difference between some poor sod trying to bunk on a lorry at Calais, and someone fed up with Britain, emigrating to Canada or Australia, etc. Other than the people from places like Afghanistan are trying to flee a fecked up war-torn place that Britain has helped to make worser, and the emigrating Brits are miserable moaning bastards who don’t realise what a great country this actually is.

Hmm, can we swap the miserable buggers for those willing to try and make a new life here? I’d much prefer happy, enthusiastic immigrants who are excited to be here, and are willing to work hard doing crappy jobs, than some ignorant stuck-up sod who wants to leave because there’s ‘too many foreigners coming over here’, or some other bollocks…

amen to that

maybe a negative PR exercise is needed. Some posters at all ports:

“The UK is borked, dont bother”
“We’ve got Gordon: you’ll regret it”
“Booze is really, really expensive now compared to France. Why dont you stay over that side of the channel?”

Nothing cant be cured with the right kind of marketing. And a logo. We need a Logo…

We need a Logo…

No, we can’t have a logo. Everyone will just say it’s crap. Remember the olympic logo row. Whatever you come up with, it will be deemed as cr4p.

Look, sorry, but can we get back to the important point?

Stoner reads the Guardian

Next you’ll be telling me that TandemJeremy subscribes to the Spectator.

No, we can’t have a logo. Everyone will just say it’s crap.

Yes, we should have a logo. Done by the same bunch of dickheads that done the Lympic one. Then, people will say ‘Look, these tw4ts can’t even do a logo propply, things must be right shit there’, and not come over.

That Lympic logo; what a joke, eh? FFS….

Rusty Spanner – Member
Love arguing with anti-hunt bods.
Just too, too easy.

Well you haven’t f*cking argued with me then 😯

.

…………… murderer of beautiful creatures

The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. The number of aliens entering the country through the back door a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed” Daily Mail, 20 August 1938.

That’s a bit unfair grumm. After all, in 1938 the Daily Mail fully supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

So you could hardly expect them to support Jews who were trying to escape being sent to Nazi concentration camps – now could you ?

I’ll level with you. I never saw Godwins’ coming so swiftly on this one.

Don’t read papers or watch tv as a source of reference.

Immigration & flow of workers is generally a good thing – literally this country has been built by such people.
But it’s only a good thing when it’s controlled at a sustainable level & you don’t get hundreds of thousands of them sneaking in illegally…

I think France should be prosecuted for human rights violations

I mean why are all those people so desperate to leave a country with a socialist agenda, cheaper booze and fags and better weather than us?

They must be carrying out some form of inhuman behavior

I think we should have the French Alps on the grounds that we would appreciate them more.

Let’s not continue this argument, coz that’s all it will remain – an argument.

Burn all newspapers and let’s talk about the benefits of the increased diversity of breast types brought about by the influx of migrant female workers