Talking cars. Is it greener to invest in the new technology with lower emissions and better mpg but all the costs (environmental and financial) of purchasing a newer car, or to run a succession of old bangers into the ground?

Depends on your miles per year. Your increased economy and lower emissions only really helps if you’re ploughing tens of thousands of miles, otherwise your build emissions are larger than the slight extra the banger will create (and the banger has already been produced).

20k/year

bangernomics FTW

no idea.

but if you’re thinking economy, you’re probably thinking diesel – and modern diesels are evil.

(the soot particles are extra small, and extra nasty)

learn to fix cars if your going bangernomics

labour writes off most older cars these days ime – garages that charge loads to weld because they just dont want to ……

Hard to say, I think. Bear in mind a new car could last you 15 years itself, and give you 15 years of low emissions motoring. And if you look at the bigger picture, what will happen if you don’t buy that new car? Will it actually result in one less car being sold, or will the manufacturer make one fewer next year? Or just discount them a bit more? I’m not sure.

Then again, in a few years’ time bangers will be somewhat green anyway, or would be if their engines are in good shape. On the other hand, petrol isn’t getting any cheaper.

I stopped bangering because of safety considerations. Even if it were in perfect condition a 15 year old car is in general not as safe as a 5 star NCAP one.

And as trail rat says – you MUST do the work yourself if you are going to make bangernomics work. Otherwise you’ll spend a fortune down the garage.

Bangernomics will mean the large part of your financial outlay goes on skilled jobs near where you live as well. Get something 10 years old and you will have many of the modern safety bits and bobs.

I used to drive an L reg Passat until about 2 years ago. It’s still being driven by my old neighbours with nearly 200k on it. It had driver and passenger airbags, but the body was a biscuit tin compared to a modern car. A-pillars a fraction of the size of a modern car, and really close to your head. The rear visibility was excellent though due to it being mostly glass with very little metal.

Complicated isn’t it!

I gave up working on cars about 8yrs ago deciding they’d become too complicated for an amateur. Having said that brake pads/discs are ok. My Passat (see previous posts) keeps flashing up warning lights or cutting the power – all requires diagnostic stuff to sort out I fear.

Do we go modern petrol then awhiles?

I reckon petrol hybrid.

Diagnostics needn’t be a problem btw. Just buy a simple kit for reading fault codes, it’ll mean you can find that £10 sensor that’s playing up in your own garage. Well worth it if you are going to banger it.

Modern cars are in fact simpler if you have the diagnostic kit.

Ok, tell me more. Where do you get the codes and the kit for reading them?

Well I’ve not properly looked into it – it’s a bit vague really for me. The system your car uses is called VAGCOM, and as far as I know you need a cable and a bit of software. The official VW thing that lets you reconfigure your car is of course big money, but there are third party bits of software that will let you read codes and they can be pretty cheap, like £30. Ebay have a lot but it’s hard to figure out what to get and what to avoid.

Lots of chat on all car forums about this, there’s a UK Passats one which is mostly populated by B6 owners I think. Not much B4 chat which is what I had.

Ok thanks.

Given that I’m sick of my Passat and its warnings etc I’m thinking maybe Mazda 6 or new model Focus 1.6TDCI

Hmm.. how old is the Passat? I’m not sure either of those two cars is super reliable tbh.

greenest of all is keeping the existing one on the road… I have a petrol mk1 focus and it’s not bad on fuel tho

Its pretty well established than bangernomics is more environmentally than getting something new, despite the more polluting engines and lower mpg, the initial energy input in production needs to be off-set by a long period of use.

Mazda 6, I’ve got one, huge boot, nice and steady, BUT google them for DPF problems first. they have this Diesel particulate filter that only works if you boot it round over 4000 revs all the time, so in 5th or 6th gears, it clogs up and costs money to fix. if you don’t change the oil regularly, the DPF dumps all the 5hite into the oil, the level goes up and it will blow the cylinder head gasket- nice. all in the name of meeting emissions standards.
But if you want a nice black one with roof bars and a mere 95k on the clock, then let me know…
🙂

Given that I’m sick of my Passat and its warnings etc

*high fives fellow fed up with VW crap buddy*
Touran Tdi on 100k here, and £1k bill due at garage next week…

In true singletrack style, can I say that neither approach is best!
Buy a 3-5 year old car instead. They are far from bangers, but have had the brunt of the depreciation.
I have a 9 year old Audi A2 that I bought for £7000 in 2006. Its still worth £4000 today and has done me proud for 60,000 miles.
Regarding the fixability of modern cars, I actually believe they are EASIER than old cars. Treat the diagnostics systems as your friend. They tell you which bit is throwing up faults. A £20 cable from Ebay and a free copy of VAGCOM lite will let you get at the fault codes on any VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat and a quick Google will tell you what the code means and probably link to some sad bloke on the internet who justifies his manhood by posting how to fix said fault.

Cars from 5-8 years old are plenty safe enough and pre 2004 diesels are often less problematic than newer ones as they are less likely to have DPF’s

Did a (very basic) cal with my car and my then-GF’s.
.
She bought a brand new Aygo, 60mpg.
I bought a 10-year old Mondeo 42mpg.
.
The environmental cost of the Mondeo was deemed a sunk cost, and so total environmental damage, well OK just carbon emmissions, of buying each car was estimated. Hers became less bad than mine after 600,000 miles.
.
She wrote hers off at 4k, mine suffered a fatal cambelt malfunction at 140k.
.
Even friends of the earth say it’s better to keep a banger running as long as possible than to buy a new car.

Are you really just interested in costs, or trying to be green? For me the two things aren’t the same.

FWIW I run a 14 y/o 535i. In its day it was the ‘worlds best saloon’, and even at this age its a pleasure to drive. And probably as safe as smaller new cars.

a quick Google will tell you what the code means and probably link to some sad brillant and kind hearted bloke on the internet who justifies his manhood saves us loads of money and time by posting how to fix said fault.

FTFY

There are some proper good people out there who’ll go well out of their way to help people in need.

Btw it’s arguable if a new car (kept for ages) is better than a long succession of fume belching old uneconomical bangers. However there are economical non-knackered old cars out there, for which it’s a no brainer.

HOWEVER

The more money that the manufacturers make (on new cars) the more they can invest in genuinely revolutionary green technology. So buy a Honda and support fuel cell development… maybe… 🙂

FWIW I intend to keep both my cars (2006 Prius bought ex demo and 2006 Passat bought 2009) for as long as I can. I treat them well so fingers crossed.

i met an interesting chap a few weeks ago, he’s got a prius. not because he cares particularly about the environment, or saving money, but he bought one because he thinks the technology is really cool.

get a v8 banger while there are still some alive 🙂

i met an interesting chap a few weeks ago, he’s got a prius. not because he cares particularly about the environment, or saving money, but he bought one because he thinks the technology is really cool.

Well that was one of the reasons I bought one. It’s cool, and I wanted to support the people who make the effort. After learning about how it actually works, it’s ten times cooler than I at first thought!

I also fancy owning a car with more than 4 cylinders, not really to drive, just to repair or tune perhaps.

Thanks for all the replies – I thought this was an interesting question. Sorry for the delay in responding – I’ve been out riding and can report that the ‘ass saver’ was somewhat overwhelmed.

Anyway

Are you really just interested in costs, or trying to be green?

Good question. A bit of background. I had a Mk1 Focus estate 2.0 petrol. Brilliant car. Did 110k over 7+ years with nothing more than a rocker cover gasket (that I did myself) and consumables. It started to get a bit old with age related failures (wiring and stuff) so I looked to replace it. The Mk2 Focus had a different layout inside. I’m 6’3″ and there was no space for my ever growing (in size) family behind the drivers seat if I’m driving so something bigger was needed. A 2006 Passat seemed the thing, bought from a VW dealer with 40k @ 4yrs, FSH, etc. 2 years later I’m fed up as said above (High 5 back to Matt!)

So, now I need to spend £300 or so on fixing one side of the stupid handbrake arrangement (currently driving about with only one side working, probably illegal, certainly MOT failing), and a timing belt, and the other side handbrake motor is cracked, and rear discs, etc need doing, and it needs servicing, etc so maybe £1500 needs spending. If it was a great car I’d spend it but I’m fed up and I like it the best out of all the family!

Traditionally when replacing a car I’ve gone for something a bit better, more power, faster, etc. I like driving. But I’m now thinking that actually I don’t need all that so could take a slight lowering in performance, especially if it was greener. I know ‘being green’ can cost and so hence my original question really.

I know keeping my car and repairing it is the best to do and it was never my intention to get rid of it so soon but I’ve had enough. I also know I should cycle more!

Thanks

molgrips, no need to correct! I was being self deprocating (it is allowed on STW isnt it?). I am one of those brilliant/sad forum fix publishers:
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?6898-Nox-Sensor-replacement-instructions-1-6FSI

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-122093.html

The very man.

Having had a fiddle yesterday I now have a warning light flashing and an audible warning. Can I disable the sound?

Hiya Paul, you don’t need to disable the warning. You need to find out what its warning you about and FIX it. To be fair, if its raising an audible alarm then it must be serious.
If you search on your cars relevant forum there will be heaps of people willing to do you a scan for free or a 4 pack of shandy.

No, it’s warning me that the EPB motor is knackered on the drive side. I’m waiting for the part to get it fixed but in the meantime my ears are ringing!

Thanks though.

Ah sorry..,never had a car without a proper handbrake.

Seems a common fault if you google.

Wish I’d googled it before I bought the car 🙁

I’ve been 300 miles today with a loud and constant ‘ping ping’ !