Chat Forum
Where is going to get torched tonight?
-
Posted 9 months ago #
-
how many Police Officers can you get for that much?
Hindsights a wonderful thing isn't it.Posted 9 months ago # -
It is estimated that the riots may have cost 100 million in London so far. Even if that's an over estimation, how many Police Officers can you get for that much?
Say average police is on 30,000 a year(no idea what they earn tbh), you could get around 3,000 police for a year, but you'd probably half that amount once you figure in variation in earnings, pensions contributions etc.. so probably closer to 1500 for a year.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I too am saddened and angered by what has happened.
The children rampaging through Manchester and elsewhere see no reason not to do it.
I now wish that the Police were allowed to use a bit more direct action and suffer less scrutiny. Of course, the Police should operate at high standards, but anarchic mobs of children with time on their hands and sopisticated communications and video recording equipment should not be able to destroy city centres whilst Police stand back and watch. Watching the news last night, I was hoping for a large deployment of Paras to come along and forcibly sweep the looters into Piccadilly Gardens where they would have then given them a good hiding, with the full blessing of the government and the people of Manchester. The message would have been very clear.
On another note, in recent months I have come to the realisation that, unlike my parents and grandparents did, I don't really do anything at all for my local 'community'. I'm not alone in this, but young-ish, educated, enthusiastic, 'respectable'(?) people possibly should be trying to set an example rather than just working to accumulate expensive consumer goods.
Unfortunately, quite a lot of young lads appear to be idolising a seemingly vacuous 'gangsta' culture that revolves around posessing shiny things obtained for free and talking in a peculiar Jamaican-Estuary-Manc-Los Angeles patois.
Posted 9 months ago # -
"FEAR. Debilitating, widespread fear. The country held to ransom by feckless youths. Thousands of shocked Londoners cowering in their homes, with many shops, banks and offices shutting early. I cannot remember anything like it; the atrocities of the 7/7 terror attacks, the shock from 9/11 and the IRA’s repeated terrorist attacks had a chilling, devastating effect on the capital but it felt different this time. Usually peaceful suburbs were under siege; meanwhile, there was increasing violence in other towns. The government belatedly appeared to regain control in London but the electorate’s trust that the cavalry would show up if they call 999 has been shattered. It no longer feels as if we live in a civilised country.
The cause of the riots is the looters; opportunistic, greedy, arrogant and amoral young criminals who believe that they have the right to steal, burn and destroy other people’s property. There were no extenuating circumstances, no excuses. The context was two-fold: first, decades of failed social, educational, family and microeconomic policies, which means that a large chunk of the UK has become alienated from mainstream society, culturally impoverished, bereft of role models, permanently workless and trapped and dependent on welfare or the shadow economy. For this the establishment and the dominant politically correct ideology are to blame: they deemed it acceptable to permanently chuck welfare money at sink estates, claiming victory over material poverty, regardless of the wider consequences, in return for acquiring a clean conscience. The second was a failure of policing and criminal justice, exacerbated by an ultra-soft reaction to riots over the past year involving attacks on banks, shops, the Tory party HQ and so on, as well as an official policy to shut prisons and reduce sentences. Criminals need to fear the possibility and consequence of arrest; if they do not, they suddenly realise that the emperor has no clothes. At some point, something was bound to happen to trigger both these forces and for consumerist thugs to let themselves loose on innocent bystanders.
But while all three main parties are responsible for flawed policies that have fuelled this growing underclass at a time of national prosperity – 5.5m-6m adults now on out of work benefits, a number that has been roughly constant for over two decades – the argument made by some that the riots were “caused” or “provoked” by cuts, university fees or unemployment is wrong-headed. Just because someone is in personal trouble doesn’t give them the right to rob, attacks or riot.
In any case, the state will spend 50.1 per cent of GDP this year; state spending has still been rising by 2 per cent year on year in cash terms. It has never been as high as it is today – in fact, it is squeezing out private sector growth and hence reducing opportunities and jobs. Many of the vandals were school children not yet in the labour market; unemployment is a tragedy that must be fought but 9, 10 or 14 year olds can’t be pillaging because of it. Equally tragically, most of the older rioters would never have any hope of going to university, regardless of cost, such is their educational poverty.
What they wanted is free money and free goods and so they helped themselves. They were driven by greed, a culture of entitlement, of rights without responsibility, combined with a complete detachment from traditional morality, generalised teenage anger and a sense that anything goes in the current climate. This wasn’t a political protest, it was thievery. It is true, however, that proper welfare, educational and economic reforms may cost money short term; and of course the coalition’s desire to protect so many departments, its failure to root out waste, its refusal to broaden the sources of financing of public services, its desire to increase foreign aid and its acquiescence to handing more cash to the EU has forced it at times to propose the wrong kind of cuts. Obviously spending on law enforcement and prisons needs to be increased. Figures of authority – teachers, parents and the police – must again be given the power to act. We need to see New York style zero tolerance policing, with all offences, however minor, prosecuted. But what matters right now is to regain control, to stamp out the violence and to arrest, prosecute and jail as many thugs as possible. The law-abiding mainstream majority feels that it has been abandoned and betrayed by the establishment and is very, very angry. Boris Johnson and David Cameron must urgently deliver or their careers will be over – and deservedly so."
Posted 9 months ago # -
I think the words 'where are you children' ring so true but these parents of 11-14yr olds aren't the sort of parents who'd really give a **** anyway TBH.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Posted 9 months ago #
-
Things about this, is it's not really a new thing, if you go to the outlying schemes around every city in the uk you'll find gangs of youths fighting each other every week up and down the country, tbh it's a bit of a national sport in places, this has been ignored for too long. The only real difference now is that they've been brought out in the open, but the issue of a lawless youth culture has always been there(it's not just youths either, the age range is varied).
Posted 9 months ago # -
In any case, the state will spend 50.1 per cent of GDP this year
On what?
Posted 9 months ago # -
As a start, make an effort to speak more often to your neighbours and look out for them.
Get involved in the area in which you live.
If crime, littering or general anti-social behaviour is taking place in your area, report it and clean up any mess.
Don't just ignore problems.
Posted 9 months ago # -
The criminal classes are making their presence felt..
so it could easily be your street next..
Posted 9 months ago # -
"Things about this, is it's not really a new thing"
This week has been about mass looting, though.
Gangs of kids have realised that mobs are difficult to stop and they are filling their boots.
PS. My generation is scared to intervene to prevent law-breaking for fear of the law. In days gone by, grown men wouldn't be held to ransom by children.
I'm no internet warrior, but I will and do stand up to mouthy kids and people who are out of order. On one occasion I was (mildly)assaulted, but multiple witnesses ensured a prosecution.
Posted 9 months ago # -
so it could easily be your street next.
There would be alot of wounded chavs if it was my street. I have alot to lose but I will never be a curtain twitcher.
Posted 9 months ago # -
They still haven't torched Rhyl
Posted 9 months ago # -
This week has been about mass looting, though.
Absolutely, it's something completely different this week, i'm just glad it hasn't happened up here, touch wood.. but the solutions are the same, we need to start building communities instead of reservations to hold in the natives.Posted 9 months ago # -
I saw the little scrote that was interviewed on sky news last night in Manchester. He had a very similar view to the kid on the BBC link above, thinking nothing was going to happen to him so it didn't matter.
These people obviously have no moral direction in their lives and regardless of whos fault that is, why should the honest, hard working public stand for the behaviour we have seen over the last few nights?
If this continues joe public will make a stand as currently the police cannot control the situation (by no means a dig at the police). It needs to be nipped in the bud now, no more moving people on to cause damage elsewhere - deal with the problem. I'll leave it at that before some people on here get start talking about human rights.....
Posted 9 months ago # -
Aristotle
PS. My generation is scared to intervene to prevent law-breaking for fear of the law. In days gone by, grown men wouldn't be held to ransom by children.
thing is - this keeps getting repeated in various form and its utter bilge. Its a complete myth creatd by the right wing press. You can use reasonable force to protect yourself, your property and to prevent crimes.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Lifer - Member
In any case, the state will spend 50.1 per cent of GDP this year
On what?
its refusal to broaden the sources of financing of public services, its desire to increase foreign aid and its acquiescence to handing more cash to the EU
and trapped and dependent on welfare
permanently chuck welfare money at sink estates
Perhaps you missed those bits...
Posted 9 months ago # -
"TandemJeremy - Member
Aristotle
PS. My generation is scared to intervene to prevent law-breaking for fear of the law. In days gone by, grown men wouldn't be held to ransom by children.
thing is - this keeps getting repeated in various form and its utter bilge. Its a complete myth creatd by the right wing press. You can use reasonable force to protect yourself, your property and to prevent crimes. "
I agree, and I personally will stand up to people, but a lot won't.
"Fear" isn't necessarily based on truth though.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Woppit -0 a load of sensationalist bilge.
its refusal to broaden the sources of financing of public services, its desire to increase foreign aid and its acquiescence to handing more cash to the EU
and trapped and dependent on welfare
permanently chuck welfare money at sink estates
Load of utter pish with no foundation in reality - just a load of pejorative right wing cant.
Posted 9 months ago # -
we need to start building communities instead of reservations to hold in the natives.
+1
ooof.. that comment hits the spot
Posted 9 months ago # -
Posted 9 months ago # -
You can use reasonable force to protect yourself, your property and to prevent crimes.
However you may well still get arrested, DNA profiled, questioned, kept in the cells overnight, bailed, and sent home with the threat of prosecution hanging over your head for months before being cleared.
Most normal, sensible, law abiding people people see this in itself as an indication that they have broken the law, and a sanction or punishment in itself - and feel that the police, in doing so, are treating them unfairly and treating them AS a criminal, for doing nothing wrong.
Posted 9 months ago # -
It's not relevant to the current situation, but the last major, non-political, disturbance in Manchester was caused by a group of Rangers fans.....
Glass houses, stones etc.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Pish Zulu - you might get hit by a meteorite.
You are just perpetuating the myth. Its a load of bollox.
Posted 9 months ago # -
However you may well still get arrested, DNA profiled, questioned, bailed, and sent home with the threat of prosecution hanging over your head for months before being cleared
well if a man is found dead in your home and you say "well he broke in" I wouldn't want the police to just say "oh, ok we'll take the body and go, sorry to intrude" it might be a good idea for the police to verify the details first.Posted 9 months ago # -
Mr Woppit - Member
"its refusal to broaden the sources of financing of public services, its desire to increase foreign aid and its acquiescence to handing more cash to the EU
and trapped and dependent on welfare
permanently chuck welfare money at sink estates"
Perhaps you missed those bits...
No I read it but it doesn't say anywhere what the 50% GDP figure relates to.
Posted 9 months ago # -
What's your point Aristotle, I'm confused?
Posted 9 months ago # -
Brycey - Member
What's your point Aristotle, I'm confused?
cf. the Scotland v. England post above.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Pish Zulu - you might get hit by a meteorite.
You are just perpetuating the myth. Its a load of bollox.
So, its a myth that
However you may well still get arrested, DNA profiled, questioned, kept in the cells overnight, bailed, and sent home with the threat of prosecution hanging over your head for months before being cleared.Thats a myth is it TJ
Are you saying that does not happen in cases of self defence?
Yes or no?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/27/manchester-shopkeeper-arrested-fatal-stabbing
Funnily enough - wasn't Winston Silcott originally sent to prison for a murder that he claims, and witnesses support, that he acted in self defence
Posted 9 months ago # -
Let's not distracted, chaps.
We're building a better society here!
Posted 9 months ago # -
Phil:
Meanwhile in Canada.....
Posted 9 months ago # -
Posted 9 months ago #
-
Yes. That is where that .gif comes from. Just thought I would point it out, as some might think it's from our own spot of bother.
...but feel free to post some more videos of the post hockey match riot, for some reason.
Posted 9 months ago # -
my home town of dunstable
the norman king incorporated some of Henry I palace from the 10th century
Posted 9 months ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
