Rich, I will do deals on units and parts, but I’m pretty cheap anyway.
Services e.t.c again cheapest about I think.

Idle jon who’d you used to work for then?

I don’t ever have to ask from The Bike Chain as their prices are so good on their extensive range of stock.
Along with the excellent staff, it is a real pleasure shopping with them.

Mark, I expect a discount now.
😀

thats the big question….i think most of the good shop owners i know do knock something off 9 times outta 10….but my questions is why should we? and if we only lost 10% of our turnover because of a no discount policy we’d all be better off…

i think this would make the shops better because theyr’ed be more money to reinvest in stock/training/staff

Can I just point out:

Idle jon, haven’t bought tubes for years as have a large stock for dh, and run tubeless! Used to be about £1 plus vat several years ago, when bought in bulk.

+

cycleworlduk – Member
the innertube cost has nearly trebled from that price now

+

cycleworlduk – Member
“LBS charging £5 for a tube is scandalous imo!”
ha ha! best laff ive had in a while…..mine are £5.95!

So that’s a 40% mark up on tubes then. Surely these consumables should be loss leaders to actually get customers into the shop. Once I’m there, with my £3.50 clutched in my hand, I’m more likely to buy something else.

Of course, if I think that my LBS is taking the mick with it’s pricing of tubes, brake pads, etc, then I won’t even bother going there so they have NO chance of selling me anything.

And, if there’s a 40% mark up on tubes then there’s no evidence that there isn’t a 40% mark up on my next £2k bike purchase, especially with the recent huge price rises. Do I want that £800 mark up to go into my pocket, or my lovely LBS owner with his BMW X5. This is the same guy who pays his staff minimum wage anyway, so I’m not going to pay their wages by paying any more than I need to.

vat? thats 20%……

i think most of the good shop owners i know do knock something off 9 times outta 10….but my questions is why should we?

Because you have to, to retain customers/turnover. If you didn’t need to do it you wouldn’t, would you?

It’s a business and you have to make the most profit you can while retaining the customers. Likewise, customers will go for the best deal they can, not necessarily the cheapest (if they have any sense that is) but the one that represents the best overall value.

Edit

or my lovely LBS owner with his BMW X5.

I think that is the exception rather than the rule. Most bike shop owners I have seen are not exactly coining it and if they are, good luck to them if they are running a successful business.

LoCo, one of the big insurance replacement companies who also have a few shops. I’m not going to name them because I still use the shops……and get a small discount.

cycleworlduk – Member
vat? thats 20%……

Nearly £3 trade (your figures?) plus 60p VAT. You are charging £5.95. 40% mark up. I’d also question why the trade price has trebled in less than 10 years.

Anyway, I’m only using tubes as an example.

I know who you mean 😉
based on your sums the tube would be £3.60 at trade inc. VAT, before you’ve added all the other costs of the daily running of the bike shop. so a £5 isn’t too bad, like I said haven’t bought a tube for years. Tubeless tyres are a bit pricey though 😀

with the recent huge price rises

Trade prices and retail prices both go up you know.

why the trade price has trebled in less than 10 years

What do you think tubes are made out of?

Trade prices and retail prices both go up you know.

Obviously.

Someone above said that the 30-40% mark up that I used to see had been reduced in the last 6 years. As you say if both trade and retail prices go up then the actual profit that the shop owner makes hasn’t changed.

Like many enthusiasts I tend to spend nearly all of my spare income each month on bike stuff. I just enjoy upgrading and getting new bits, it maximises the enjoyment I get out of the hobby and I enjoy spending time in the garage fettling and changing bits over, etc etc…especially during the dark winters.

Anyway, bottom line is that I want to be able to get as much as I can for my fixed level of monthly disposable income.

I’d love to take the ideoligical stance of supporting my LBS but frankly some of the prices I’ve paid in the past have so greatly exceeded what I can pay on line that it just leaves me feeling like I have missed out on some extra component or part for those extra £££’s that I spent in the shop. Simply put, I want to get as much for my money as possible!

It also comes down to range and availability. LBS’s just don’t stock the type of stuff I want. But I know that CRC will have it and it will ‘be here by the weekend’.

I’ve also yet to find a decent LBS that I would use for everything within 1hr of my home in Fife. All the local LBS have fallen short in some way. The smaller ones that are helpful generally have very little stock and often can’t help with some of the more specialist mechanical issues (like DH bike bearing changes, wheel builds etc).

The ‘larger’ ones in my area are way too expensive and 1 in particular has failed to charge me the quoted price for every wheelbuild, brake bleed or mechanical problem I’ve brought to them. It always seems to end up costing more than the quote…

In Scotland I rate Basecamp Bikes and Bothy Bikes up North and I-Cycles down in Inners – awesome stock levels and awesome service. But the closest of those is a round trip drive of 140minutes!! Hardly local.

So I buy it online and maximise my budget. Sorry if that’s frowned upon but I have good reasons imo.

Hmm. Being a recent Cycleworld customer my 0.02 worth.

I was after a Soda frame and a couple of bits to complete the build. I asked for a price and squeezed £20 off to make the price of the seat pin the same as I could get elsewhere (Hello Si!).

Despite the singletrack 10% thing (10% off everything if I recall) this did not happen on the frame. Hardly surprising. I did get a free build though. And Joe did some swapping about which he didn’t charge me for. I did bring in a goody bag at pick time (which was more than deserved). I was very impressed with the level of service and will definitely go back.

However I did buy 10 speed XT off CRC as its was an additional 20% off… 😳

These days the only thing a shop can really ‘sell’ itself on is service as you will always find it somewhere cheaper online. I don’t mind paying a bit more to get it local but if its a no face chain then I’d rather save my cash (edit: this not aimed at CW I might add).

You are competing in the big bad world and some people have absolutely no shame (although I wonder what they would say if someone asked them to do their job for 10-20% off). Everybody has to make a living.

thats one of the main problems…..rrp is increasing as is the trade price but so are our running costs….year on year they increase.

as the rrp increases so does the deals online….someones making money and it isnt the lbs..

2 of my bike suppliers have reduced my margins despite me doing more business with them last year

Heard that the sales of MTB’s were 10% down in 2010? Is this correct?

…..rrp is increasing as is the trade price but so are our running costs….year on year they increase.

But to be honest, these are things that affect all retailers, whether net or shop. And that’s life in general, anyway!

2 of my bike suppliers have reduced my margins despite me doing more business with them last year

You could argue that since you sold more of the goods then you don’t need quite so much mark up? 😉 What’s the saying, stack em high, sell em quick or something?

Saw someone mention Dales – I use them as my lbs for bits and pieces and when I had a warranty issue on a fork they were very good – I was half expecting them to be disinterested but they were great, despite the bike it came from being the only big purchase i’d ever made from them (and two years prior at that). I use them now for my consumables such as cables, pads, etc. I find their prices are not much dearer than the best online for these things – spesh branded tubes for 2.99 for example. Tesco charge a fiver for a generic non-branded presta tube.

The guys in the shop are also very helpful and most of them seem to have been there for quite a while.

Before this turns into an advert for Dales (!!) I would say it horses for courses – would never buy a rrp bike but that isn’t necessarily the lbs’ fault – it’s not them that set rrps. I think the price of new bikes is shocking so would wait for a sale if I was going to buy one.

I’ve also bought a few bits from Planet X who feel like an LBS somehow, even though they are an online retailer.

On the flipside – I can see how retailers get frustrated with punters. Guys who have 3 or 4 grand bikes and who quibble over the price of a tube – get a grip!

And, if there’s a 40% mark up on tubes then there’s no evidence that there isn’t a 40% mark up on my next £2k bike purchase, especially with the recent huge price rises. Do I want that £800 mark up to go into my pocket, or my lovely LBS owner with his BMW X5. This is the same guy who pays his staff minimum wage anyway, so I’m not going to pay their wages by paying any more than I need to.

Ironically the kind of bike shop owner who is driving an X5 is exactly the same kind of bike shop owner that can afford to sell a bike way below RRP, because he has a massive bike shop. So you are more likely to be buying an X5 for somebody who pays his staff minimum wage by buying online.

There are a lot of costs involved in running a business. 20% of the bike shops sales go straight to the VAT man, and most of the rest will go in running costs.

Not a huge amount of stuff has a 30-40% mark up, also are people forgetting that 30-40% mark up isn’t 30-40% profit, by the time all overheads are taken profit is pretty low. Ten percent may not seem like a lot but it may remove any profit the shop might make.
I’m not saying don’t ask for a discount but I wouldn’t expect it.
And above all remember to smile.

IdleJon – you said you hadn’t been in the bike industry for 6 years. I assume that you either got a job as a Hedge Fund Manager or are a Premiership soccer player. Otherwise, your vast knowledge of how to make a fortune running a bike shop has gone to waste.

what he said! yes mtb sales last year were down…..not sure by how much,we did more road/hybrids last year

Probably a fairer comparison is to look at margins of other high street retailers, my mate runs a jewellers/goldsmiths, markup, 500% 😯

When we used to sell Vans and the likes the margins were huge in comparison to cycle brands.

Supermarkets using loss leaders is not a comparison as they rely on volume which an LBS just won’t get.

High margin items like tubes make up for making £20 on a pair of pricematched wheels for example.

I was bored a few weeks ago, calculated the cost of keeping my shop doors open, £58k per year not including staff. So I have to make £58k profit before I can take any for mayself.

yep were the same….09/010 we had a 60k staff bill….tis scary…

Why are the shop owners not trying to squeeze there suppliers ?

every year/meeting i try and do that…i think the bottom line is i dont spend enough….

It’s the North East of Scotland – be thankfull we don’t spit on our hands anymore as we say “chap hunds for a bargin”.

Why are the shop owners not trying to squeeze there suppliers ?

Manufacturing, raw materials, freight costs, exchange rates. It is very difficult to get around any of these factors, so most of the suppliers will be making similar increases, hence no opportunity to play them off against each other.

Out of interest what do LBS owners think of customers bringing in biscuits etc.in return for favours (borrowing tools, getting a part fitted etc.)? Biscuits are good but presumably there’s a fine line before it becomes taking the piss?

cash seems to work pretty well in the till…i reckon the crumbs could cause a problem over time 😆

I prefer cake, but visitors get quality coffee, if you bring those pink wafer biscuits you may get ‘owned’ with some bombers though 😀

I don’t ask for discount in bike shops, i just expect good service in return which i must be honest, in the area where i live i very rarely get. If i’m paying top $ for stuff i expect the highest standards and care with my bike, like i say i’ve rarely had that (although maybe its my standards that are out of whack).

I’ve worked in the cycle industry and that approach i took was that if i provided the best quality of service, i would get the sale. Now this didn’t always work but did most of the time. Now i’m out of the industry i expect the same.

Nothing wrong with shiny/slick looking bikeshops, they just need the service to back it up! Stif are the only ones that so far have managed to archieve this for me.

For what it is worth,I use your shop because of the service I have received over the years.That is the primary concern for me,at the end of the day,nobody discounts the stuff I like anyway.If I get a discount,which I could not about comment on a public forum, then that is a bonus. 😀 Unluckily for you I have developed an obsession with Munro Bagging,which means Chick and Adrian in Arbroath are getting all my pennies these days.

shame cos i got some good cakes off you! 😛

thanks for the biggup stewart….

it seems fairly apparent that service is not that important any more and that the price is…..very sad!

Service is different for different folks. I have all the tools/ skills to fit stuff. I don’t need any advice on what to purchase.

I need stuff here tomorrow at the latest. LBS can’t offer that – no stock.

often quicker (and cheaper) online

every year/meeting i try and do that…i think the bottom line is i dont spend enough….

Could you not team up with other business’s in your position to form a buying cooperative? I think LBS’s need to start thinking out of the box a bit.

You can’t compete on price and the customers don’t want to pay for your “service” you need to look at other ways to add value that the customer will pay for.

The end of the day its a business which mean adapt or die, in the capitalist world we live in.

druidh – Member
IdleJon – you said you hadn’t been in the bike industry for 6 years. I assume that you either got a job as a Hedge Fund Manager or are a Premiership soccer player. Otherwise, your vast knowledge of how to make a fortune running a bike shop has gone to waste.

You need to sort out the which comments I’ve made are serious and which tongue-in-cheek.

ziggy – Member

I was bored a few weeks ago, calculated the cost of keeping my shop doors open, £58k per year not including staff. So I have to make £58k profit before I can take any for mayself.

Is the runnning cost for a bike shop any different than for an independent bookshop, or a newsagents for instance?

Is the runnning cost for a bike shop any different than for an independent bookshop, or a newsagents for instance?

Almost certainly not, so with a smaller margin we have to sell more just to make the same profit.

You need to sort out the which comments I’ve made are serious and which tongue-in-cheek.

I honestly thought you were being serious with all of your quotes.

There’s a saying in the bike trade, “if you want to become a millionare, start with £2 million” 😆

when what i want cost 20p

The only time I have ever asked in the past is when I saw a new (sale) bike that was about £200 over my intended budget and the alternative was a bit under but nowhere near as attractive an option and I asked for the gap to be closed a little. At the time I was buying heaps of stuff in the shop and they were happy to do something.

I still shop there 12 years later and have been using the shop since ’95.

In that time I reckon I’ve spent less than £1k of my entire bike spend (a LOT more) anywhere else. I now split my custom with another smaller local shop near where I live because they’re just as good and right on the doorstep.