Side to side, up down or even tension? Can,t seem to get it perfect, getting even tension seems to throw the rim out quite a lot…should I completely wind off the tension or is it usual?

you are after the best balance of all of that.
😀

How are you measuring tension? unless you’re using a proper gauge trying to tell by squeezing, tapping or how easy it is to turn the nipple is very unreliable.

First get the wheel running true side-to-side.
Then up and down.
Then use a metal bar or similar to seat/stress-relieve the spokes – see Sheldon Brown’s guide here
Then true again.
Then ride and listen to it ping as the spokes stress-relieve themselves.
and then give it another true if needed 😉

how long have you been building wheels ?
reason most new folks struggle in my experience is they get carried away with the tension to early in the game.

I’ve only very limited experience in building wheels, but i was told not to stand square on to the wheel, as you’ll become transfixted with the one dimension you’re looking at as the other goes miles out. I was told better to stand at a slight angle and keep an eye on both

I,ve got a second hand park tools gauge, which seemed a good idea at the time, checking my old wheels they are all over the place. Is a couple of mm out up/down noticable? Looks terrible in the jig. First go at building…

Side to side, up down or even tension?

Yes

I’ve never given a crap about spoke tension. I get them all to the same tension roughly, on my knee, by looking at the threads, then add a 1/4 turn to each, keeping going until they feel ‘good’. Then off to the wheel stand to do true, hop, true, destress cycles until it’s acceptable or I get bored. Never used a spoke tensiometer. Don’t care if it’s wrong – all my wheels are still true, and I’d never had to re-tension them. 🙂

I’ve probably built 30-35 wheels over the years.
My dad taught me 😀
He’s an old school engineer – so I’ve never used a jig or gauge – lace up and roughly tension on a work bench then pop wheel in the forks/frame and attach a steel rule as a side-to-side/up-down guide using rubber bands.

Never had one fail on me yet 😉

When it boils down to it a metal rim with metal spokes under tension is an extremely strong structure – as proved by the pounding we give them! You have to really try quite hard to build a dangerous wheel.

All of the above is right. Don’t sweat it, keep bouncing around all the different adjustments, you’ll be closer all the time. Think of it as stress relief, not a task, as such.

Then ride and listen to it ping as the spokes stress-relieve themselves

Relieve the stress as you go (never should you hear spokes pinging as you ride), side to side and then up and down. Keep checking the dish. Wheelpro is a good guide… don’t stress and dont go to high in tension (it works for Superstar!).

I’ve never given a crap about spoke tension. I get them all to the same tension roughly, on my knee, by looking at the threads, then add a 1/4 turn to each, keeping going until they feel ‘good’. Then off to the wheel stand to do true, hop, true, destress cycles until it’s acceptable or I get bored. Never used a spoke tensiometer. Don’t care if it’s wrong – all my wheels are still true, and I’d never had to re-tension them.

+1, I use a guitar plectrum (sp?) to get a rough spoke tension equalisation.

Relieve the stress as you go (never should you hear spokes pinging as you ride)

I was being mildly facetious there 😉 my point being that the spokes are never tensioned/stress relieved fully first time around.

Read the guides, probably put the best part of 4 hours in trying to get them perfect. Maybe I,ll just have to accept a mm or two out and go for a ride on them… I had heard stans rims were a bit of a pita.

I had heard stans rims were a bit of a pita

You wont get the same tension from Stans as you would form say Mavic, of course you didnt go Stans for your first build…

my point being that the spokes are never tensioned/stress relieved fully first time around.

Mmm with spoke stretching and rim pressing during the build mine dont ping on their first outing. Roger’s guide is pretty good for £9.

Edit: You could of course have over tensioned, the rim deforms even on slight nipple adjustments and is difficult to true. I did it on a double eyeleted Mavic rim, it was tight!

All the wheels I’ve ever built, which is a fair few, have remained true and happy but I’m not a pro so don’t take my word as gospel. I start by getting the rim straight. STRAIGHT and true – get the dish right and get the vertical/lateral displacement to within 0.5mm/0.25mm with a new rim, 0.75/0.5 with a used rim/spoke combo. I then chase round the rim adding ~1/2 or 1/4 of a turn at a time (Depending on friction/tension level) until I’m happy with my average spoke sound. I’ve no tension measuring device, all done by ear. Correct spoke tension is higher than you expect I think. After a couple of runs round the rim I re-assess the true/dish of the rim after a few bounces at odd angles. I then finish off the tensioning and do one last check. I stress relieve with each run using a screwdriver and hands. Occasionally get the odd ping on my wheels for the first 100 yards after a build, if so I re-check it.

A couple of hours with a beer does it nicely. Wouldn’t make a career out of it I guess!

The Roger Musson book is well worth the investment. I’d built several wheels before reading it but it was really useful and good value as a download.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/resources/book/roger-musson/wheel-building/prd_417244_103crx.aspx

One of the most useful things i’ve done is make a nipple driver (pauses for laughter). Just filed down an old screwdriver and didn’t bother with bending it. It gives you a good place to start with all nipples done up to a consistent point. After that just build up the tension and keep the tension even by tone. If your rim is new and decent quality to start with than the wheel just arrives at a good result.

I find a good spoke tension specification for mavic rims and dt swiss spokes to be about a D sharp.

+1 for Wheelpro book.

Built a good few wheels now for me and my mates. All great wheels despite our best to ruin them.

I get all spokes wound up by a roughly equal amount on each side then I strengthen by tightening all to bring wheel into tension. Next I true, then i dish then true again. I then get it round(er) and true for a final time, probably.

Wonderful therapy. My wife thinks I’m mad of course as I like to spend a (good) time moving the rim a “mm” to get it bob on.