Was camping up at Bala at half term.
Weather was typically mixed N Wales / UK hill country blend of rain, drizzle and glorious sunshine.

So, with a lot of our camping gear worn out / long in the tooth, we started making a list of stuff we ought to get – including clothing.

The Betws “outdoor” shops were a waste of space. Cotswold had good kit, but very much a mix of “outdoors fashion retailer” and Gucci gear. The remainder of the shops seemed to be a motley crew of cheap jack shops selling once great brands emblazoned onto total tat. 😐

What happened to hard wearing, rugged, reliable outdoor clothing?
I used to live in ME Ultrafleece – thick enough for an outer, good in UK wind & damp, quick drying. Fleeces now are either super technical outers or soft cwtchy mid layers.

And FLEECE PANTS…??? Where have they gone. Perfect campsite / base camp attire. Track suit cut, but fleecey warm and quick drying, unlike their cotton “sports shop” equivalent…

Quite disheartened. I think I must like my kit to be more “Ray Mears”. Most of what I see is more Bore Grylls or South Ken 😈

Have you tried raymears.com?

No it’s not a piss take. Not sure of the link to Ray but genuine outdoor/bushcraft site!

Ray wears Paramo afaik,

The kit is all still there, don’t worry – you just didn’t find it.

You walked into lifestyle shops in an average Welsh tourist honey-pot village. Its hardly Wilderness stuff round there.

You walked into lifestyle shops in an average Welsh tourist honey-pot village. Its hardly Wilderness stuff round there.

True, but there always used to be a number of outdoors shops in Betws…

And Re: “wilderness” kit, I’ve done that in the past, what I was looking for was great British outdoor kit 🙁

Will check out the Ray Mears site. Had a couple of really good Swandri items BITD. I do like the Paramo stuff, and have one of their reversible fleeces. Good, but not as good as Ultrafleece (IMHO)

I’ve also taken a liking to a a Sportchief saddlecloth jacket. Partly fulfilling a camo fetish, but mainly because I like the no rustle heavy duty finish of shooting kit (the jacket is a different question though, not camping / hiking gear)

Is Climber and Rambler still there?

Didn’t see it – was that on the road to Capel Curig? Didn’t get beyond the Field And Trek

MAcpac do nice fleece pants

When I were a lad…

Macpac, Kathmandu and Bivouac Outdoor.

(sorry, I know that’s not really helpful)

Just got some fleece trousers from Kathmandu (the store, not the town).

What would be even better would be some primaloft filled, pertex shelled trousers to match my favourite Macpac jacket 😀

You can still get Helly Hansen fibre pile from the army surplus shops. Rohan recently made their stretch breeches. Both good stuff.Even Galibier still make “proper” mountain boots but even I will draw the line their.

Was camping up at Bala at half term.
Weather was typically mixed N Wales / UK hill country blend of rain, drizzle and glorious sunshine.

But you are camping in North Wales, not on the Tour de Mont Blanc or even Munro bagging.
Karrirmor stuff from sports direct should fit the bill nicely.

Dont forget Montane!

I’m Still using the Extrem smock i bagged for £20 14 years ago!

geoffj – Member

But you are camping in North Wales, not on the Tour de Mont Blanc or even Munro bagging.
Karrirmor stuff from sports direct should fit the bill nicely.

gahhh the name that shall not be mentioned. sadly just aname stuck on generic products as is brand managment it seems a lot nowadays. but servicable stuff still

OP – UltraFleece died due to fashion and lack of demand

You can still get K2 Karisma fleece which is the same material under a different name. There’s a small outdoor company in Aboyne that sells fleece garments and do made to measure too. they are called http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/Fleece.html

There was a guy called Keith in Lichfield that ran Extreme Outdoor Clothing as a part time concern but he seems to have disappeared

Montane, Berghaus, Buffalo, Aiguille, Phd, Cioch are uk based.

Aiguille (http://www.aiguillealpine.co.uk/) will make you a bag you will never replace and they are v.light. My Cirrius is lighter than an osprey talon 33.

Cioch (http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/) will make you a set of clothes you will never stop wearing. My waterproof salopettes from them are simply fantastic. Light but heavily reinforced in the right places so they withstand the rigours of supervising D of E etc all year round.

OP another thing to remember is that there are different approaches to clothing nowadays.
The old 3 layer approach does not work for everyone. e.g. I hate waterproofs but I always have a windshirt with me. Companies like Montane, Patagonia, Haglofs make fantastic kit that is very technical and focused on certain tasks or activities. It is light years ahead of the old 3 layer system.
Oops don’t forget Keela, Rab & Mountain Equipment

If you walk slowly, never get sweaty, or rarely do scrambling or climbing or cycling, the 3 layer approach might work for you. It’s horses for courses but good kit is out there

Check out Petesy blog for some good reviews of modern kit with and a similar view of the halcyon days of ME UltraFleece

Those Aguile sacks look like the stuff Karrimor and Lowe were producing in
The 1980’s… I still have a couple in my gear cupboard… Hagloffs is the ‘new’ kid on the block (not so new now) for really good technical gear. I also really rate PHD and have a couple of their bags and am now minus one kidney…

Patagonia still produce it. Unfortunately you have to sell a kidney to afford it. On the upside it lasts forever.

Rab, Mountain Hardwear, Patagonia, Mountain Equipment, Paramo, Montane.
Like said, the stuff is still about, you just never found it 😀

Nothing happened to outdoor gear… It got better. Better than it’s ever been.

Patagonia still produce it. Unfortunately you have to sell a kidney to afford it. On the upside it lasts forever

I’d be surprised if it was more expensive in real terms than decent berghaus and karrimor from the late 80s I remember paying £300 for a berghaus goretex jacket in 1990.

The mountain factor in Bumblethwaite is good for discounted patagucci.

Rab, Mountain Hardwear, Patagonia, Mountain Equipment, Paramo, Montane.
Like said, the stuff is still about, you just never found it

Well, I’ve got some very good Aiguile, Hagslof, Rab etc kit, and regularly use it. But its at the more technical (& pricey) end and I don’t want to kill it kicking around camp playing with the BBQ… Equally cotton jeans / t-shirt / trackies don’t cut it with the mud & damp. My “gap” was at the hard wearing, functional type kit. Might try some shooting / farming type outdoors shops…

LOl Geoffj patagucci- Ive not hear that in 10 years!

Mainstream manufacturers and retailers (who are squeezing out the specialists in most towns / stores) are definitely styled on Alpinism. I was after an ‘Old fashioned’ hill-walking jacket, one that covers the bum, lots of pockets etc. Apart from Paramo, everything is low-cut around the waist – great for if you’re in a climbing harness / on the high street but its mostly driven by fashion.

I’ve never been that much of a believer in fleece pants

But I do think you need a Paramo top. Although seems to be getting lighter and less durable

But I do think you need a Paramo top. Although seems to be getting lighter and less durable

My Paramo top looks and feels pretty flimsy but it’s had a couple of years relatively hard use and is coping far better than it looks/feels like it should

Nothing happened to outdoor gear… It got better. Better than it’s ever been.

Some did, there’s still a lot of crap out there and Betws is a mecca for crap outdoor stores (bar Cotswolds).

Bumbler and Stumbler went years ago. Something else was there buts now an empty building.
Best place for Patagucci is ebay used. Got a great Retropile jacket for a tenner posted.

I thought the shop over the bridge near the car park was always a bit more genuine outdoor gear and less street wear (at least it used to be) despite being closest to scousers dunking point.

Brenig
Keela
Ridgeline

Army surplus?

@Jon Taylor.
Have you looked at the Paramo Torres trousers? Shell fabric is the same as the outer fabric on their jackets, so water repellant, and the filling is “not Primaloft, but as close to Primaloft as you get”. The Torres range is designed to be worn over the top of Paramo jackets and trousers. It still provides insulation when wet, and means you don’t have to remove a waterproof layer in wet weather when you need to warm up.

We find you have to buy good brands but at sale times or internet sales.
For example Patagonia’s own web specials when the end of season.
Wife is expert at putting in her time at x £cost of her time to find good stuff.
This applies to a lot of items. Best so far was a John Lewis listed Bosch washing machine wrongly listed at less than the correct price. Delivered without order being cancelled!!!

Here’s a story for you: when I was eight my dad started hauling me up mountains. There was NO outdoor leisure kit in 1962 so we bought oilskin cycling capes and fisherman’s sou’westers. We wore corduroy knee breeches, wool socks and leather boots. Safety gear was hawser-laid nylon (I think) ropes and huge ex-MOD steel carabiners. We wrapped about 20 feet of sisal rope around our waists for tying on. We carried all this in heavy rubberised canvas rucsacs with steel frames that stuck out behind our backs. My Dad used to pick up old nuts in the road, get the thread drilled out by the local garage then thread lengths of nylon rope though them for wedging into cracks.

Then some time around the late sixties a guy named Peter Storm invented a proofed nylon garment called a cagoule. We we were heading off to climb in Skye so my Dad sent a postal order to DH Evans in London and they posted three of them up to Portree post office. They were blue and I remember our disappointment after the first day wearing them in rain – we seemed to be as wet inside as outside and it took us a few days to realise that the wetness was condensation.

How times change.

Yeah, there’s now a Cotswold in Portree selling miniature carabineers….. ?

Then some time around the late sixties a guy named Peter Storm invented a proofed nylon garment called a cagoule.

Wow, cagoule, there’s a word I’ve not heard since childhood. I had one at school in the 70s, you could roll it up and stash it into its own pocket, progressive stuff.

Google would suggest that Peter Storm was the company name btw, not the guy who invented it. He was one Noel Bibby, apparently.