Of course the more we cut the more likely unemployment would increase – there's been talk of how we could get by with a lot less civil servants but do we want so many unemployed people?

Junkyard – if aimed at me
BR – not really it just seemed a mildly amusing thing to say with a slight nod in your direction/ sarcasm – more banter than an attempt at an insult my insults have no subtlety at all I am afraid
you do seem to accept that what you originally said cannot be done

Reduce every public sector budget by, say 25%, but leave the end service at 100%.

I realise that for many services the cut is impossible, but I'd like to see the actual evidence.

Departments have to just stop doing things to really save

So we cant really cut the budgets by 25% and leave delivery unaffected as you originally suggested. As for the pensions good luck persuading the millions of the highly unionised public sector workers of the change. They have gone on strike every time it has even been hinted at. It may or may not be unfair – as indeed were the payments to RBS Fred Goodwin- but you will not persuade him/people to give them up IMHO. Not to say it is not a reasonable suggestion just unworkable in practice

you cannot get rid of the pension scheme as it is part of people's terms and conditions

Yes you can. What you can't do is apply such changes retrospectively so past contributions have to be honoured but future contributions can be on a different basis.

and they will take you to court for constructive dismisal as you have retrospectively changed their terms and conditions of employment as I have already stated. The pension scheme is mentioned in my contract of employment and in our personnel handbook FWIW

Cut the NHS IT project – that'll save another £12bn.

and they will take you to court for constructive dismisal as you have retrospectively changed their terms and conditions of employment as I have already stated. The pension scheme is mentioned in my contract of employment and in our personnel handbook FWIW

Exactly, FWIW – just issue new contracts/handbooks – this is what happens on the 'other' side.

Hmm, and before the government does it, they just change whatever rules/laws it is that may cause them a problem – its not like they won't have the support of the non-public sector workforce who are paying for your pension without the remotest chance of having their own.

I'm afraid the world is changing, or look at it another way – the period 1945 to 1995 was just a blip in the world-order, when the average UK worker (or even non-worker) got looked after. Hasn't happened before, won't happen again.

And I'm not happy either, but am a realist.

Try reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

Basically the only reason we've had modern society was the power available from the consumption of fossil fuels. Before and after is just based upon the power we can 'cultivate'.

Of course the more we cut the more likely unemployment would increase – there's been talk of how we could get by with a lot less civil servants but do we want so many unemployed people?

Only wanted by people who want a "small State" no matter what the financial circumstances.

I'm afraid the world is changing, or look at it another way – the period 1945 to 1995 was just a blip in the world-order, when the average UK worker (or even non-worker) got looked after. Hasn't happened before, won't happen again.

Only if it is accepted, which by all accounts the spineless UK workers have.

El-bent – Member

I'm afraid the world is changing, or look at it another way – the period 1945 to 1995 was just a blip in the world-order, when the average UK worker (or even non-worker) got looked after. Hasn't happened before, won't happen again.

Only if it is accepted, which by all accounts the spineless UK workers have.

Fair point El-bent but what choice do most people have at this point as money is badly needed to put food on the table.

Is not about been 'spineless', more that even if you work in the public sector your options are limited – especially in the current job market.

And its not just the UK, but pretty much anywhere in the developed world – if you've never been and seen the 3rd and developing worlds (I've worked all over the world), and seen how it works…, its a shock.

As a shopfloor worker (Nurse) what worries me is that our managers will be told to make savings.

errrr, have already been told actually. Google 'CRES savings'. Since our department's biggest spending by a loooooong stretch is frontline staff salaries ie Dr's nurses, therapists, you can imagine where our savings will be coming from…. 🙁

Fair point El-bent but what choice do most people have at this point as money is badly needed to put food on the table.

Call me out of touch, but I think you'll find that actually, very few people actually need money to "put food on the table"

Whereas, lots of people want money to pay for their second car, mobile phone contract, overseas holidays, convenience food, sky TV etc etc.

And BTW, I'm not saying this because I think people should take pay cuts (apart from that Birmingham bin man). I'm saying it because I think there are a lot of people, who could live on a lot less money whilst out on strike if they needed to.

I would tax cigarettes so much that people couldn't afford them, which long term would hopefully reduce the drain on NHS treatment. I would also make immigrants pay at least 50% more tax than UK residents.

I think there are a lot of people, who could live on a lot less money .

I agree. My previous job I managed on £6,500 per annum. Rented a small bedsit, drove an old banger, had a flash bike (bought some time previously with a student loan!) it can be done.

Now earning three times as much (for 5 days a week rather than previous 3). Got an even nicer bike, a slighter newer car and bugger all else to show for it, with much less time on my hands.