Looking at discounted 2013 models or maybe another buy direct like canyon.

Current bike is a 2012 rose pro rs force/mavic cosmics. Great bike, but fancy something new and hopefully a little bit faster, maybe even try electronic

Whats out there to consider at the moment?

What size? If 5’8-5’11 then a TCR Advanced SL will be fast and light. The wheels are excellent.

Around 6′ so probably a 56. That looks like a bargain, but a little small for me I think.

Would probably fit with a 120 stem if you are sub 6′ (they do come up big – (I’m 5 10.5″ and have a 100mm stem), but you’d need to try a TCR first for fit. Try a Giant Shop. And yes it is a bargain, even if 10 spd Di2 Dura Ace is a dead end.

Pauls for Giant, Cannondale
Westbrook for Scott

(if you’re happy without test-rides)

Can’t add any suggestions, but next time I buy a road bike I’ll be very thorough regarding clearances.

Recently found out that the 25mm tyre on the rear of my Scott CR1 makes contact with the chainstay sometimes, despite seeming to have plenty of clearance (and quite stiff wheels).

Will probably have to drop back to 23mm.

🙁

Would probably fit with a 120 stem if you are sub 6′

I’m a shade under 6’1″ and had a Med/Large TCR. It was too small. I ride a Cervelo R5 and Scott CR1 in 56cm and they’re spot on for me (with 130mm stems). I like my frames on the small side but the TCR was just too small, I was very hunched and the front end was too low to get on the drops and breath at the same time.

I’d go Canyon (for value) or Cervelo (because they’re quite simply the best bike ever made).

For 3k I’d spec something myself. Ultegra Di2 groupset, Pro3 hubs, stans alpha rims, nice finishing kit, etc. Just my 2p but I reckon you could get within the price of a Canyon plus the cost of saddle/bar/tape which unless you get lucky aren’t going to be your favourite anyway.

Supersix Evo Hi-Mod frameset £2099 from westbrooks
Ultegra 6800 groupset £499 from merlin
Novatech hubs, a23 rims, <1300g <£200 handbuild yourself, components from ebay
Schwalbe Ultremo and some tubes £60
Ritchey WCS (aloy, we’ve run out of budget) bar/post/stem £140 from bike-disocunt.de

Just short of sadle, bar tape and pedals. Not electric but I’d rather have that frame!

I’d go Canyon (for value) or Cervelo (because they’re quite simply the best bike ever made).

Best marketed, it’s a Canadian company faking a european image by puting an accent on the ‘e producing it’s bikes in the same factory as a few others (Ten Tech Composites) in China. They’re not the most aero, lightest, most features/buzz words, and far from the best finished. They do occasionaly make a good looking bike though and I admire their dedication to long head tubes.

They’re not the most aero, lightest, most features/buzz words, and far from the best finished.

– The R5 is arguably the lightest production road bike in the world (depending how you weight it, what hardware, what size etc, and this is ignoring the R5Ca wich is 100 grams lighter!)

– The R5 was voted the favourite pro-level frame in the peleton by World Tour riders for the last 5 years. If a pro was buying his own frame, it would more than likely be an R5.

– Having ridden lots of bikes, I can honestly say the R5 is the comfiest pro-level race frame I’ve ridden and it’s so stiff that it’s just not even an issue.

It has a magic carpet ride that you just don’t get on other bikes. I also have a CR1 back-up bike – identical build and geometry – and it feels numb and harsh in comparison. The R5 doesn’t claim to be an aero frame, but it’s definitely faster down a hill than the CR1 (back-to-back rolling start tests by me, free-wheeling, same conditions, tyres etc.) The R5 is faster by a significant margin.

So I’d say my opinion probably carries a bit more weight than the opinion of someone who’s probably never ridden an R5. Have you? 😉

Recently found out that the 25mm tyre on the rear of my Scott CR1 makes contact with the chainstay sometimes, despite seeming to have plenty of clearance (and quite stiff wheels).

I had some minor rub recently – it was due to the tension on the cassette side on my winter wheelset, after 2 winters use it started happening when standing up climbing on very steep gradients. Spoke key on the cassette side sorted it.

Not averse to buying a frame though I have only built mountain bikes / wheels, I have toyed with the idea of swapping all the components over from the Rose for a new frame. The idea was to buy a whole new summer bike and then move the Rose’s kit onto a winter roadie frame like a kinesis racelight or genesis equilibrium to give me my winter bike too.

Cervelo R3 Dark?

http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=64632;page=1;menu=1000,173,157;mid=136

Use the change for a pair of Chinese carbon wheels.

If you’re anywhere near London then Condor are a good bet. As you can spec exactly what you want, the cost of the bike over 3+ years of ownership comes out as good value as you never feel the need to upgrade…

For £3k I’d spec my own bike tbh – for the same reasons as above

Has to be this!
http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/scott-foil-hmx-team-issue-di2-frameset-with-11-speed-ultegra-6870-electric-pack-2013-p213652

Wow 😮

If I was spending £3k,I’d want to see/try the bike. Go to somewhere like Epic. They have loads of different manufacturers and have a fleet of test bikes they send you out on for a long as you want. They are also happy to swap out the obvious wheels/tyres/saddles etc to your choice.

I bought from them a few years ago even though they are half a days drive for me and would happily do so again. No other connection other than satisfied customer.

Has to be this!

Spend the change on a chiropractor 😉

Spend the change on a chiropractor

😀

I can honestly say the R5 is the comfiest pro-level race frame I’ve ridden

You haven’t ridden my Defy Advanced SL 😉 Back to the OP. There is an XL Defy Advanced SL at Giant Twickenham that is hugely reduced from last year. Not electronic and “only” Ultegra 10-speed. But it’s the best riding pro-level frame… etc.

Plenty of good deals about, but know your size by brand. That TCR may be a touch small. Can’t justify it for myself.

Just to throw another option into the mix, Neil Pryde bikes are 20% off for the month of June. The Nazare (Alize) is a fast aero bike, or the Zephyr is a very quick sportive-style climber.

20% off would get you a top quality frame with Ultegra 6800 for £2300 leaving enough change to upgrade the wheels to something nicer.

Or, the frames are also reduced, and are Di2 compatible if you wanted a custom build.

They’re great bikes, not just another mass-produced frame with nice bits stuck on.

Had a little ride on a mate’s Foil yesterday and demonstrated how it’s possible to read the writing on manhole covers through your arse!

Christ that’s a harsh bike. He’s selling it after a year of getting battered – his lumbar can’t take any more!

You haven’t ridden my Defy Advanced SL

Not yours, but I have ridden one. Bit of an old fella’s bike if you ask me 😉

SL or Advanced? they are quite different. And I like the S3, just not as light or aero as a Propel 😉 . Pros will say anything – it’s part of being one.

Scott frames seem to have no value 😯 . Buy 11 speed Di2 groupset – get a free frame! A friend races that foil plus Di2.

I can’t be sure that this suggestion is correct (because I can’t be sure I’ve found your exact bike on the web) but I am thinking you’d need to spend a lot more than £3k on a whole new bike to make any kind of an improvement on the one you already have.

But I completely get, and whole heartedly endorse, the idea of buying a new bike for the sake of change. It’s a new bike, what’s not to like.

I have a Condor (the Moda, which is was their Ti race bike but is no longer available) and can confirm that the staff their are excellent as are their frames, but they are expensive. OK their frames are competitively priced; the Leggero is their top end race frame, weighs 1kg and is £2300 and is very nice both aesthetically and from a ride quality perspective.

But whatever groupset you put on it, you’ll be paying RRP on and then you’ll be paying for the build. They don’t discount on anything.

Their bike fit service though is really good. Julian is the chap who looks after you and he knows his craft.

If you want to have a whole new bike and still feel that you’re getting something that moves the game on, Canyon is your best bet. You can get the CF SLX with Di2 and a decent wheelset for £3k. That frame is silly light at 790g (which would actually put me off buying it). It’s a shame you can’t buy the next frame down, which is still a paltry 960g (for comparisson the new flagship Colnago C60, which costs £3600, weighs just over 1kg!) but spec it with a top flight Di2 groupset. At least it comes with Cosmic Carbone wheels.

Self build won’t be an option even if you can get an 11-speed Dura Ace groupset for under £1000 (from various places including Merlin). You’d struggle to find a frame that was appreciably bette than your current one for £2k let along a frame, wheels and finishing kit.

If you can’t stretch your budget then the biggest bang for your buck would be to replace the groupset for something like Dura Ace (campag will be expensive to get the equivalent groupset as you don’t see them discounted by much if at all), maybe Di2, and then a really good wheelset assuming yours are allow Cosmic Elites rather than Carbones.

The Dura Ace C35s are excellent; they can be used for all round riding, even training as they are very durable, and they definitely feel different at speed. It’s only a small performance gain, but above 20mph you can sense that you’re saving energy to maintain speed.

You haven’t ridden my Defy Advanced SL

It was an SL. Dura Ace 10-speed with Cosmic Carbones… It’s a nice bike, but jesus, it’s butt ugly!

Got to agree with Geetee, the OP is already riding a pretty decent bike so I don’t think anything in the £3k bracket will be considerably faster.

Having said that, the Ultegra 11-speed mechanical is a big step up from the 10 (and considerably nicer than SRAM, IMHO of course), so I’d be looking at the best frame you can afford specc’d with Ultegra and nice wheels.

– The R5 is arguably the lightest production road bike in the world (depending how you weight it, what hardware, what size etc, and this is ignoring the R5Ca wich is 100 grams lighter!)

Cannondale evo black is 40g lighter again.

I didn’t say they weren’t desireable (which is exactly what a survey asking people what they would hypotheticaly ride would tell you), and I’m sure they’re very very good (for those prices they dam well should be), just that they’re not the best at anything. The R3 frame is ‘under 1000g’ according to the blurb, and costs £1799, the other American brands will sell you an entire bike with a frame that weight for that sort of money.

The bikes are very very nice, but IMO it’s a triumph of marketing and stratergy that they’ve managed to make themselves desireable with the sort of etherial/intangible atributes of the ‘old’ European Bianchi, De Rosa, etc, when the reality is they were a 90’s startup now owned by the Focus/Unigeva/Raleigh group of companies.

If anyone want’s to offer me a free R5, e-mail in profile :-p

The bikes are very very nice, but IMO it’s a triumph of marketing and stratergy that they’ve managed to make themselves desireable with the sort of etherial/intangible atributes of the ‘old’ European Bianchi, De Rosa, etc, when the reality is they were a 90’s startup now owned by the Focus/Unigeva/Raleigh group of companies.

That’s an interesting thought; I hadn’t seen it like that before. It’s particuarly interesting when you consider that a lot of those old school European brands now have their frames made in the far east. The only Colnago that isn’t is the C60 (and how lovely it is). Other brands probably do the same thing, reserving Italian manufacture for their top end frame while everything else is contracted out.

I don’t think it matters to performance (heart) but it probably does to the head, at least just a little.

The Scott Foil is marketed as an ‘aero bike’ and they always have a reputation for being a very harsh ride (and heavier – they just have more material in them). I rode my brothers Riddley Noah Fast and more or less ruptured my perenium but it was an insanely fast bike!

Cervelo (because they’re quite simply the best bike ever made

LOL.

popped out of a mould in taiwan by the thousand, a tube to tube joined custom frame made to fit your weight and riding style with fantastic paint/finish would be closer to “the best”.

Having said that, the Ultegra 11-speed mechanical is a big step up from the a return to the slickness of 6600 10-speed

FTFY – I have both, 6600 shifts much better than 6700 on account of the external cables (in fact Tiagra shifts better than 6700!). The new cables and routing is an improvement, but the external cabling shifts so well. I’ll probably go to Di2 10-speed now it has come down in price. The extra cog is not appealing.

Have you ridden one Mr Smith? I rode one this morning. I rode a Scott Foil yesterday. I rode a Scott CR1 HMX on Saturday. I’ve ridden a Tarmac SL4, a Dogma 65.1, a Colnago C60, a Supersix Evo… Plus quite a few others.

The difference is far greater than the sum of bonded tubes, but if you want to simplify it, then fill yer boots.

I’m an average guy, with average proportions. An off the shelf frame works for me every time – I customise the ride and fit with the finishing kit to a far more detailed degree than any custom frame builder could do with a frame, safe in the knowledge that the frame has been developed to the highest possible standard.

I’ll probably go to Di2 10-speed now it has come down in price. The extra cog is not appealing.

I still think the mechs on Ultegra Di2 look a bit “special”. If they were as neat as the Dura Ace I’d be more tempted but they look far too clunky to put on a svelt racebike frame. That said, I’ll be putting it on my TT bike next year…

That extra cog is wonderful, it allows me to ride 53/39 and have 11-28 on the back, so basically compact-length gear inches at the bottom of the cassette without the big gaps between gears. I love it! (DA 9000 Mech on my bike)

Some good points. Reason I was looking at discounted 2013 models was because I didn’t think £3k would be enough of a budget at RRP to be significantly better than the rosé I already have. I’ve seen 20-40% discounts on top end bikes (Paul’s seems to have several decent deals on cannondale and giant) which I thought should be another ‘leap’ in terms of comfort and speed.

Not really up for a boneshaker, even if it is slightly slower. current bike gets a little uncomfy around the 3 – 4 hour mark, though I have now completed several centuries on it so can do 7 hrs in the saddle. Usual rides are 2 – 4 hours averaging 18-19mph depending on conditions.

Current Wheels are cosmic carbone sl and pro lite braccainos for the wet.

It will only be my second ever road bike but I think I ride enough to warrant an upgrade and just fancy a change tbh. I plan to sell a couple of mountain bikes to cover the cost.

Have you ridden one Mr Smith?

yes both old and new from S1/RS to R3/S2

I’m an average guy, with average proportions. An off the shelf frame works for me every time – I customise the ride and fit with the finishing kit to a far more detailed degree than any custom frame builder could do with a frame

not everyone is “an average guy”
i’m intrigued how you can customise an off the peg frame better than somebody who can pick and choose from tubes and mitre them to whatever other tubes they choose? do you get your file out and whittle away at the inside?

Kudos – what did you think of the Colnago C60? That is the frame I could be tempted to replace my current Condor Moda with (not that this is likely to happen).

DT78 sounds like you’ve got the situation figured out; like I said, what is not to like about a new bike even if it is just for the sake of having a new bike!

If this is bike number two, justified on the grounds of you riding the road a lot more, then to my mind the right thing to do is get the budget befiting of that situation and buy something that is truly a bit more special and not just different.

Have fun!

i’m intrigued how you can customise an off the peg frame better than somebody who can pick and choose from tubes and mitre them to whatever other tubes they choose? do you get your file out and whittle away at the inside?

I can’t for the life of me work out why you would think that was what I meant when I said “I customise the ride and fit with the finishing kit to a far more detailed degree than any custom frame builder could do with a frame”. It’s really not a very difficult sentence to understand, and it’s quite well written – even if I do say so myself.

If you have trouble with literacy etc, my advice would be to read things a couple of times, just to make sure you’ve got the right end of the stick. It saves you getting egg on your face 🙂

Kudos – what did you think of the Colnago C60? That is the frame I could be tempted to replace my current Condor Moda with (not that this is likely to happen).

I loved it, very solid ride – similar to the Dogma in that respect. Couldn’t fault the geometry at all – I’d say that that is the area where the top frames have got it nailed. I get a bit skeptical when I hear reviewers saying that such-and-such a frame “turns in better” or twaddle like that – I’ve never ridden a top end frame that didn’t handle “just right” unless it was badly set up!

The Colnago and Pinarello just feel a bit duller than the R5 to me, very difficult to describe, but it just feels lighter and zippier when climbing out of the saddle. The Cervelo has a feeling that borders on the fragile, but it’s rigidity and accuracy in corners prove it’s far from fragile.

That sort of thing comes down to personal preference, but I would say all of those 3 – C65, 65.1 and R5 – have a definite edge over the other bikes in the pro peleton.

It’s really not a very difficult sentence to understand, and it’s quite well written – even if I do say so myself.

It’s not difficult to understand, it’s just bollocks. I agree with Mr Smith’s use of the gif! There are certain limits to what you can do with an off the shelf frame, and to say that you do ‘more’ than a custom builder is very odd.

But then you’ve voiced several very odd opinions (passed as fact) here, so perhaps that’s totally in character.

Had my first ‘proper’ ride on my R3 yesterday, 65 miles in the Shropshire hills.

Very comfortable ride with every pedal stroke seeming to go straight to the rear wheel with lots of drive…and light enough that throwing it up the short sharp stuff was a joy.

Very happy with it 8)

Not bollocks at all njee. The finishing kit and wheels makes a huge difference to the ride of a bike. A custom frame builder is limited in exactly the same way the the big manufacturers are when they produce off-the-shelf frames, ie every change in ride/handling has a knock-on effect to something else.
If you build too much compliance into the frame, you lose power. It’s very simple, and any frame builder that tells you otherwise is lying.

I’m confident that an off-the-shelf frame from a top manufacturer has been developed by the best riders, on the widest range of terrain and surfaces to be the absolute optimum it can be.

Sure, if I was a sprinter I’d be looking at Venges, Foils etc but for bikes that suit everyday riding, racing, training, sportives etc, I really don’t think there’s anything a custom frame builder can offer other than exclusivity.

I’m confident that an off-the-shelf frame from a top manufacturer has been developed by the best riders, on the widest range of terrain and surfaces to be the absolute optimum it can be.

It sounds like your all right in some way. Kudos has a point to some degree on this issue (the quote) but this misses what should be the most compelling reason to go full custom, that being you will get a bike that fits better.

The counter to that is that most off the shelf bikes can acommodate most people and the top of the range frames are very likely to be as good as they can get, at least for the job they are designed for.

Of course that is the point though; not all top of the line frames are designed to be optimised for the same thing.

The Colnago C60 is reported to be sublime to ride, steadfast, handles brilliantly, stiff but comfy etc and aesthetically pleasing, but it is heavier than than a Cervelo R5a and not as ‘aero’ as a Scott Foil.

Parlee are one of the few companies that seem to get plaudits for being able to produce frames that really are the best of everything (stiff and compliant) and made to measure but you pay through the nose for it.

What I do know for sure is that I am maybe 5% quicker on my 7.25kg Condor compated to my 10kg Genesis commute bike. It’s not much is it!

What I do know for sure is that I am maybe 5% quicker on my 7.25kg Condor compated to my 10kg Genesis commute bike

Me too from mile 1 to 20. But from 80 to 100, it’s quite a bit faster. My budget was the same as the OP and I wanted a pro-level frame with whatever groupset. The Defy SL was just about on budget. I’d already had a beautiful Ti Merlin, so had got over the “nice to own” phase of ownership. The fibres to frames approach of Giant appeals (as does Look’s). And our club is sponsored by Giant so the frame matches my jersey 😉 . I also now have a Giant Propel for racing, and if I was brutally honest, there is not a huge difference – they are both comfortable over 100 miles and both capable for racing. A half a degree in head angle and a cm difference in wheelbase are not really important.

At the price point, you won’t find any bad bikes, but those Scotts may be a little stiff, it would appear. Pros won’t ride uncomfortable bikes. That is all.

Me too from mile 1 to 20. But from 80 to 100, it’s quite a bit faster.

That’s a good point actually. On reflection I would agree also. I do ride the commute bike for longer distances but no where near as much as the race bike.

It sounds like your all right in some way. Kudos has a point to some degree on this issue (the quote) but this misses what should be the most compelling reason to go full custom, that being you will get a bike that fits better.

I’ll return the compliment and agree with you… Up to a point! 🙂

I think there’s a bit of a hangover from the old days when a custom frame build was a common thing for keen cyclists to do, and it generally didn’t come at much of a premium as the same frame builders were churning out standard frames in exactly the same way.

But I’d say things changed in the late eighties/early nineties when frame builders adopted the A-head. It suddenly became very easy to make a standard frame fit anyone. And unless you have deformity levels of disproportion, or a very specific need, I don’t think there are very many people that can’t get a perfect fit “off the shelf” by altering stem, steerer and saddle layback.

Of course, a custom frame builder would dispute that, but the entire Garmin Squad look perfectly comfortable on stock R/S5s…