What light compliant steel frame for all day rides to 140-150mm

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  • What light compliant steel frame for all day rides to 140-150mm
  • clubber
    Member

    For that length of fork and to be CEN compliant, I’d be suprised if it was under 5lbs.

    I’d suggest you’re looking at aluminium or carbon.

    Mackem
    Member

    The black and white days of Alu being “stiff” and steel being “springy” are gone.

    My Alu Chumba is lighter and springier than the p7 it replaced. The Pace 305 before that was springy too (but made of cheese).

    The CEN p7 wasnt half as nice as the previous ones. Far too lardy and dead.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    How heavy is a BFe ? I own one but I don’t know/care, I can recommend how it rides though.

    Dialled have an offer on their Reynolds 853’s Prince Albert Classic’s

    Scamper
    Member

    My Bfe is spot on 5lb.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Buy a fork travel reducer/spacer and open up a whole world of 100/120mm frames.
    (Sanderson btw 😉 )

    Comrie Croft pump jump track by matt_outandabout, on Flickr

    Comrie Croft pump jump track by matt_outandabout, on Flickr

    hora
    Member

    My Bfe is spot on 5lb.

    Weighed on bathroom scales though?

    What mk/size?

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Has to be lighter than 5lb

    Why? What difference to your life would a 27lb bike be over a 28lb bike, bearing in mind that’s the difference of not brimming your camelback bladder?

    “Most” HT that will handle that length fork are there or thereabouts, weight-wise, material makes little or no difference, chances are that if it was designed in the last few years it will be “low/slack/long”

    Which pretty much just leaves colour….

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    I don’t think a bike capable of handling 140-150mm forks will be built with low weight and compliance in mind, will it?! Big tyres FTW 🙂

    hora
    Member

    Has to be lighter than 5lb

    Why? What difference to your life would a 27lb bike be over a 28lb bike, bearing in mind that’s the difference of not brimming your camelback bladder?

    “Most” HT that will handle that length fork are there or thereabouts, weight-wise, material makes little or no difference, chances are that if it was designed in the last few years it will be “low/slack/long”

    Cynical **** but good points.

    renton
    Member

    Why does it matter how heavy a frame is when you are the same sort of weight as me !i.e FAT :mrgreen:

    Surley something under 5lbs is going to twist and bend and feel horrible if you are over a certain weight.

    Scamper
    Member

    Ah jesus, just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

    Anyway for the record mine is a small, latest Bfe.

    Premier Icon stevied
    Subscriber

    Ah jesus, just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

    Aren’t all ‘what frame’ threads Hora’s?

    hora
    Member

    Ah shar-raap 😆 if we were ladies we’d have a thousand handbags, we are just the male equivalent of ladies :mrgreen:

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

    In which, my suggestion is a Singular Swift in Large. (tell me when it is in the classifieds)

    Stanton slackline?

    hora
    Member

    Moon on a stick content possibly..

    I know one answer is Cotic Soul but what other answers to the question could there be?

    Has to be lighter than 5lb. When its 5.5lb+ its becoming ‘is it worth it exercise’ compared to a light full sus frame?

    I’d love a Sanderson Life -but they aren’t warrantied that high. The Soul possibly isn’t but its got a strengthen tapered headset/CEN etc

    Ragley piglet? (again over 5lb?)

    Anything else? Alu – would it be too stiff, any good ones?

    I can’t afford a Ti frame.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    we are just the male equivalent of ladies

    Please can this be entered into the Hora-saurus?

    Thing is how much is down to actual “compliance” in a frame and how much is down to this common belief that steel is always springyer and magic and how much is down to people stuffing longer travel forks and larger volume tyres on steel framed bikes?

    I’ve read quite varied opinions on STW of the ride of a steel 456, I’m pretty sure those that find it a “harsh collection of gas pipes” are probably just running narrower tyres at higher pressures than those who find it “Compliant”…

    If you’re going to be using a 2.3″+ rear tyre then do perhaps consider using a “Harsh” riding Aluminium frame and save a pound or so…
    Chameleon perhaps?

    hora
    Member

    Totally disagree, Steel 456 feels dead/numb on the rear.

    Its part-subjective but I also found the Sandersons to be springy at any psi. I think thats key- a good frame will shine through with wall-thickness, welds, length of material/oval/round profile choice/where etc in the right place and a bad frame needs ‘assistance’ from tyre psi etc to mask its harshness.

    Dunno why you’d talk yourself out of a Soul. It’s exactly what you want.

    hora
    Member

    Dunno why you’d talk yourself out of a Soul. It’s exactly what you want.

    Hmm maybe this

    I know one answer is Cotic Soul but what other answers to the question could there be?

    should read

    I know one the answer is Cotic Soul but what other answers to the question could there be?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    C456. No, wait…

    Speaking of weight… <badoom-tish> a half pound difference in weight in a frame is bugger all, but, extra weight means extra metal somewhere and extra metal generally means thicker tubes and thicker tubes means Less Steel Is Real Bullshit. The weight difference between my old BFe and my Soul wasn’t that much, nothing to worry about but the difference in ride (with identical kit) was noticable.

    Harsh isn’t the right word for most heftier steel frames IMO, nor is springy really the right word for lighter ones. Waggy-tailedness, is what it’s all about. IMO it’s the only bike characteristic that really matters 😉

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Sanderson, On-One, Singular etc etc…..

    hora
    Member

    For me- stick a water bottle on your downtube filled with water, then remove, the difference is noticeable enough. Yes thats crude- the weight is allover however you can feel it- it just feels ‘nippier’ – no?

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    I’d take any statement that included this phrase with a pinch of salt though.

    …Bikeradar said…

    I’m not saying the 456 is a brilliant springy, comfy frame,
    simply that build and tyre pressure can affect the ride almost as much as making the frame out of fancy doodle magic metal, rather than pig iron…

    If your set on steel why not try a Stanton?
    I’ve seen Dialed PA’s run with 140mm forks too, they’re not too heavy are they?

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    I’ve often wondered if the “ooh my HT frame feels harsh” sensation is directly related to the lard-arsedness of the rider……. 😉

    tymbian
    Member

    Sanderson claim their Blitz ( AM Long Travel frame ) weighs 4.6lbs in 18inch size…I find that hard to believe though..

    On the subject weight, low CoG etc. 99% of riders prefer the advantages of a Dropper-post off-set against the additional weight of 1lb that high up on the bike…so Hora where do you want this thread to go….

    ……A 3lb Steel LT HT?

    hora
    Member

    Sanderson claim their Blitz ( AM Long Travel frame ) weighs 4.6lbs in 18inch size…I find that hard to believe though..

    A shop once weighed one for me- it was over 6lb’s.

    If Sanderson added side welds to the Life 8) ….come on!

    mrmoofo
    Member

    Ever thought of a Soul? 😉

    There is a reason why people like them

    dlr
    Member

    If it helps, my current gen BFe in 16″ was approximately 5.1920623 lbs on proper scales 😉

    hora
    Member

    I really need to have a spin on a Soul but I’d still go for a size down (medium). I’m not a Bfe-type rider if I’m honest. However the numerous ‘its 120mm best for Soul’ posts do put me off a wee bit as I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot- I like an active front-end/like to ride over the bars/front end.

    b r
    Member

    I can’t afford a Ti frame.

    If you stopped swapping frames all the bloody time, you could’ve done!

    And the answer is a 456Ti, as you’ll never get a steel frame under 5 lbs rated for a 140-150mm fork in your size.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    recently changed from a 100mm Reba forked Rock Lobster to a 120mm XFusion forked Soul. The Soul is a tad heavier but a lot more capable and comfy

    nowthen
    Member

    I dont quite get why, if Hora is such an expert in arcane frame dynamics, he has to ask such questions repeatedly on bike forums? I am surprised he is not the head designer for Specialized by now frankly…

    Premier Icon vondally
    Subscriber

    not 5lb but Prince Albert…………..

    continues reading with intrest………….

    surely you would be better of with a
    650b

    or one of those

    29er frames

    Have you tried one yet?
    More complaint due to big wheels, really comfortable, fast and slow in all the right places, stable……..go on you know you want too

    oh but be careful
    head angle will not be slack enough
    frame will be too harsh, not light enough
    headtube too low, short long or middling
    tyres will be wrong
    maybe too heavy/light
    maybe not enough reviews for you to choose wisely
    limited fork choice

    but you can sell it a good price and lose nowt on what you paid 😉

    clubber
    Member

    Just one thing to add…

    DIBS! 🙂

    hora – Member
    I really need to have a spin on a Soul but I’d still go for a size down (medium). I’m not a Bfe-type rider if I’m honest. However the numerous ‘its 120mm best for Soul’ posts do put me off a wee bit as I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot- I like an active front-end/like to ride over the bars/front end.

    I’m a big lad (~16st)on 140mm Revs on a Soul and I love it. Mate just bought one and put 140mm Sektors on it, and he loves it too.

    120mm is a personal preference, loads of people riding them slacker and loving it. 20mm is a tiny difference – choosing an external lower headset could raise the front end 10-12mm. A 140mm fork with an internal headset leaves you within a hair’s breadth of the 120 geometry with an external one.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @hora I’m not a Bfe type rider either but frame cost £300 on sale not £480 (Soul) and frame will handle the longer travel forks. It also came in a nice blue colour, the new ones come in a very nice green. Let’s face it I care more about the colour than the weight.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    . I’m not a Bfe-type rider if I’m honest…. …I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot…

    Dunno, regularly ploughing your way through 6″ of fork travel sounds quite BFe-esq’…

    I fear this next Hora build will be a bit of a contradiction with wheels…

    You’re basically after a lightweight sledgehammer – correct?

    you’ve started with the fork travel and worked back to wanting a lightweight Steel frame to make the bike more Agile / Nimble?

    Perhaps Focus less on frame material to start with, and more on geometry/layout, what parts you’re going to bolt on to it, and of course what you’re going to use it for…

    General mixed trail riding? trundle up – blat down type stuff?
    Clearly frame mass is on your mind is this due to climbing or handling or a bit of both?

    Have you considered that a shorter (possibly lighter) fork may well help that nimble handling feeling you say your after, a 6″ forked HT is unlikely to be described as flicky or nimble, but that’s precisely why you’ve said you want a lighter frame… [/Shrug]

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