they looked like a lot of fun?

CRC decided to put FS bikes out via Nukeproof and Vitus instead, I’d guess?

this is a total guess:

it’s just possible that the ‘short link’ design got lawyers from Giant / DW sniffing around. and no-one wants that.

whatever happened, it’s a bit of a shame; Ragley hardtails had a tricky year or 2, but if you got a straight one it was a belter.

real shame – they looked very promising

it’s just possible that the ‘short link’ design got lawyers from Giant / DW sniffing around. and no-one wants that.

Seems unlikley, for a start theres Giant and DW, how’d you prove which was coppied? And there’s a lot of smaller brands using the same style of linkage anyway. Then there’s the argument that DW links are just a really short chainstay interpretation of Spesh’s FSR ‘patent’. Then there’s the way Nicolai, Brid, etc use the horst link with a counter rotating top link, which makes it work more like a Santa Cruz/Intense VPP. Then there’s the DW/Trek lawsuit, which seems to have gone nowhere.

IANAL but suspension ‘patents’ seem less usefull than the paper they’re written on.

I seem to remember someone on here saying there were patent issues , the whole miss matched travel thing seems to pop up more regularly now so they were on to something

the DW/Trek lawsuit, which seems to have gone nowhere

I think an agreement was reached.

From Pinkbike/BRAIN

According to Bicycle Retailer and Industry News (BRAIN), a Wisconsin judge has ruled that Trek’s Active Brake Pivot technology does not infringe on Dave Weagle’s Split Pivot suspension patent. Weagle had filed the suit in September, 2012, alleging that Trek willfully infringed patents 7,717,212 and 8,002,301. The article says that regarding patent ‘301, the judge “found enough difference in leverage ratio curves to rule Trek did not infringe on this Split Pivot patent.” Regarding patent ‘212, there was no infringement, “because the rear shocks Trek uses do not closely conform to the shocks Split Pivot describes in the patent.” Dave Weagle intends to appeal the ruling to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Court.

Sounds to me like the patent hinged on precice implementations of the layout, not the layout itself. So making another split-pivot bike would be acceptable, as long as you didn’t do an exact copy of the DW or Trek bikes. More like copyright of the designs than a patent?

thisisnotaspoon – Member

Seems unlikley, for a start theres Giant and DW, how’d you prove which was
coppied?

Well, if you take Weagle’s version of events, he collaborated with Giant for a long time on DW link, then they ditched him, and came up with MAestro using all his ideas. But that’s another lawsuit.

Really, who cares. You have essentially the exact same group of people speccing Nukeproof and Vitus for CRC who were working on the Ragleys. Specialized’s Horst link Patent expired meaning they didn’t have to worry about having to circumvent it with more complicated or expensive designs leaving them free to worry about who’s geometry was best to copy and how best to make plane looking frames ugly.

If you want a Ragley full sus, buy a Vitus. Same thing.

not quite the same thing tho, as ragleys were designed with miss-matched travel. that’s what appealed to me.
commencal did that meta hip-hop last year with miss-matched travel, but that seems to have got the axe this year, so maybe not enough interest, despite some of us liking the idea?

i achly emailed hotlines at some point asking what happened to the ragleys, and got this reply:

Thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately the guys at Ragley have decided to focus their attentions on producing the best possible hardtail frames and have put the full suss project on hold for the indefinite future.

i.e. forget it.

did the shelving not coincide with the timing of that fella brant richards going back to one-on?

jamiesilo

not quite the same thing tho, as ragleys were designed with miss-matched travel. that’s what appealed to me.

Vitus Gravir 120/100mm. Gravir 29er 120/100mm. Vitus Sommet 160/150mm. Vitus Escarpe 290 140/120mm. Nukeproof Mega TR 150/130MM.

Yeah, the Nukeproof Mega TR is basically what they were planning, isn’t it?

honourablegeorge – Member

Well, if you take Weagle’s version of events, he collaborated with Giant for a long time on DW link, then they ditched him, and came up with MAestro using all his ideas. But that’s another lawsuit.

but even the great Dave Weagle was several years late to the ‘short link’ party.

righto, my mistake. but 10 or 20mm difference is not as interesting to me as the 100/140mm they were planning.

sure there must be some proto types floating about somewhere.

jamiesilo
righto, my mistake. but 10 or 20mm difference is not as interesting to me as the 100/140mm they were planning.

sure there must be some proto types floating about somewhere.

You’re talking about a difference of 10-20mm, which would result in a ha difference of maybe half a degree, probably for the worse in terms of handling. If you’re that keen I reckon you could pick up a Gravir/Blitz for buttons and stick an RS Sector on it. Maybe stick an offset bushing to drop the bb. Or get an older Escarpe and stick a Lyrik on it. You’ll end up with a virtually identical product. Seriously, look at this….

even the build on these bikes is nigh on identical. Vitus is what happened to Ragley FS.

jamiesilo – Member

righto, my mistake. but 10 or 20mm difference is not as interesting to me as the 100/140mm they were planning.

Perhaps sir would be interested in a cutting edge 2007 Cotic Hemlock? 😉

What’s a Ragley? I thought they died and went away forever. And ever.

Except they managed to turn that nice looking Ragley into a straight out of 2001 monster (albeit one that rides nicely).

Buy a Blur 4X cheap and run a big fork on it. 100mm rear and 160mm forks on mine (and 140s and 150s at times). Was ace.

one’s a horst link and the other something else with a solid back triagle, vpp maybe. but yes frame detailing looks similar. anyways, not disputing what happened to them. and by the by, vitus escarpe VR looks quite good to me, without paying too much attention to paint job…

and yep northwind and boywonder, a hemlock and blur 4x would both be on my list if i had a reason to replace my pitch frame.
you done with the hemlock then northwind?
what did you replace the 4x with daveyboy?

Funnily enough the 2015 Vitus share the pierced seat tube of the Ragley:

Replaced the 4X with a Five (one of the last 26ers) and its better than the 4X was. Again running 160mm forks and some offset bushings to slacken it out but its an absolute giggle on anything downhill and flowy…