[Closed] Warning - unsolicited video download from STW ads can cost you money!

What an absolute pile of poo. Stw's answer: buy a premium membership, but is the ability to browse a load of guys arguing & a large knowledge bank without advertising worth 15 quid a year?! No.

If your full time job/business was to produce a magazine and associated website, would you be happy to give it away?

This thread has been highlighted so Mark or another will answer soon with a definitive answer. The ads do need to stay as they pay for the site without them it would disappear or be subscription only, however I'm sure they don't want them to be intrusive Mark will answer that better though.

Sorry, didn't mean this to develop into one of those advertising versus premium membership debates. Just wanted to warn others before they get burnt like I did.

Personally I'm not averse to a bit of advertising, and especially targeted bike-related ads which can be quite interesting/useful on a bike forum.

What peeves me is that this particular ad starts gobbling expensive data allowance (unless you're on an unlimited plan, or perish the thought - accessing from work) without so much as a please or thankyou. At very least, it should require you to mouseover or click on the ad before it starts using your valuable data allowance to stream HD video.

Edit - Perth replied while I was typing,

perth, a simpler way is change your settings so media content doesn't play automatically. It has the option in Chrome.

Can be a bit of a pain in the arse with youtube etc if you browse there but it stops video & audio ads.

The flip side for STW is it doesn't stop picture ads that use significantly LESS bandwidth.

Everyone's a winner, provided STW doesn't use data intensive ads.

So am I right in thinking that if I an viewing this now on my mobile using 3g, I am using all my data allowance up?

Oh hang on that particular ad isn't showing on my mobile..

MU3266 - where can I find these settings in Chrome?
I think this add is stealing my broadband also.

Chrome mobile....

Settings > content settings > protected content (set to off)

I'm a premium member, with ads turned off and that ones still there when I'm on the computer! Doesn't appear to be when on my phone.

Edit: I now see it's a separate option to remove Epic TV ads!

Yes Njee there's an option to disable it for those folks who are paid members. As you say it's a seperate option from the option to disable ads.

Cheers Sniff - I've managed to sort it now (on a desktop not mobile)

The Epic TV player doesn't show on mobile devices. It's desktop only. So it shouldn't be using up anyone's mobile data plans.

unless they tether their laptop etc to their phone?

Drac/ mods generally you might want to fix the disable option as you can't tell if epic is disabled or not.

Each time you press the button it still says [b]remove epic tv[/b]

I cannot tell if it's on or off.

I am a full package subscriber and if I had been caught out like the op I would be livid with stw for what appears to be unflagged and problematic content. No issue with epic s model but it needs to come with an obvious warning about data use and a way of disabling the downloads.

In safari tick 'Stop Plugins to save power' in the prefs. Doesn't block the ads (which is nice for STW towers) but prevents the Epic TV from loading video data unless you click on it.

EDIT success! Tried to type the above into half a dozen threads about this and each time the thread has been locked while I was typing.

unless they tether their laptop etc to their phone?

Which I do.

And let me see if I understand this right...

- If I access STW from a phone it automatically blocks that ad from appearing.

- But, if I access STW from a desktop/laptop its not blocked.

- And, if I access from a desktop/laptop tethered to a phone its not blocked either.

- If I subscribe to premium I get an option to block that ad.

- There are settings in certain browsers to stop any ads/sites from automatically launching video content, but its not very selective

Getting awfully complicated guys - wouldn't it be easier to have a policy that advertisers aren't allowed to automatically launch video streaming from ads, and thereby avoid upsetting your audience?

How long until the Premium Premium sub gets offered? 😉

If I access STW from a phone it automatically blocks that ad from appearing.

But, if I access STW from a desktop/laptop its not blocked.

And, if I access from a desktop/laptop tethered to a phone its not blocked either.

The web pages you load can detect your browser and load various options depending on what they detect. Browsing the internet through a desktop browser across 3G/4G it will still detect a full browser and load the full bandwidth option.

I guess you can either go premium to STW, go unlimited on your broadband package or only browse on you mobile. They've got to make their money some way so i don't mind the ads.

If you tether your phone to your browser it's basically a WiFi link as far as the computer is concerned - so [b]anything[/b] on your PC/Mac/Linux that updates automatically will do so. This includes Adobe Reader, Windows Update, Outlook, etc. Any optimisation done by websites to limit bandwidth use for mobile users will also be ignored.

I only ever use tethering for emergencies...

Tethering on a limited data plan is fairly risky IMO.

They've got to make their money some way so i don't mind the ads.

As I said earlier - I have no objection to ads per se, and in fact find them quite useful/interesting - especially the T-shirt ones 😉

Its just that this particular ad has cost me hard cash by automatically downloading five hours of video I didn't ask for.

Lets liken it to you buying a paper magazine - remember them! And with your magazine is packaged a VHS tape of some MTB vids. But you didn't ask for the video, and you don't even watch it. Then a day later you get a bill for 25 quid for the video. Would you pay it?

3 would only allow me to tether on their unlimited data plan anyway, which is fine as it's on sim only cheapie tariff. But as grum said and mogrim implied, you really don't want to be tethering on a limited plan (IMO).

Tethering on a limited data plan is fairly risky IMO.

Lets not get sidetracked by whether its tethering or a separate broadband plan. It doesn't make any difference. Point is if you are on [i]any[/i] data plan that has a limit, having 2 GB of video downloaded without you asking for it is going to blow a big hole in it.

I've survived quite happily for the last three years with a broadband plan that gave me 2.7 GB a month. This is the first (OK second, but the wife and I have got over that little misunderstanding) time I've blown my monthly limit in three years and had to pay excess data charges.

I suppose another way of looking at it is;

1) you want to visit stw regularly

2) stw hosts auto streaming ads on some devices

3) there's a £15 a year option to restrict the display of these ads

4) if you use a device that causes streaming then either pay the £15, use an unlimited data connection or stop visiting stw?

I think it should perhaps be made clearer what EpicTV does.

Even on unlimited connections such as work ones having an stw browser open for long periods even if you're not visiting it is likely to cause eyes to be cast in your direction...

^^ agreed.

[i]subscription only[/i]
Why not? I get a nice mag every month and access to the best website on the internet.

I suppose another way of looking at it is;

1) you want to visit stw regularly

2) stw hosts auto streaming ads on some devices

3) there's a £15 a year option to restrict the display of these ads

4) if you use a device that causes streaming then either pay the £15, use an unlimited data connection or stop visiting stw?

5) STW realises that allowing auto streaming ads breaks the inherent trust between a website provider and its audience, and therefore asks it's advertisers to show a little restraint

There FTFY 😀

thing is that the EpicTV thing is a known quantity. STW know exactly what it's doing so why is restraint needed?

I guess there's a commercial decision to be made about the revenue from runnign the ad v any fall off in site visitors that result.

I suspect that getting £15/head off 10 people will make up for the ad revenue from a 1000+ casual visitors not coming back over the course of a year.

How long until the Premium Premium sub gets offered?

Some of us are already on it. Called Premier Gold. You get to dictate your posts to Mark, and he types them out for you.

[img] [/img]

I can't see the Epic TV thing so someone may have to tell me.

How did you not notice it was playing and if it was at what point did you think hold it's downloading here this is using bandwidth?

I'm also intrigued as how your ISP knows it was Epic TV my previous ISP couldn't tell me where bandwidth was being used.

Epic TV player doesn't show on mobile devices. It's desktop only. So it shouldn't be using up anyone's mobile data plans.

I'm too far from the exchange to have a landline broadband, so I have a three mobile broadband account for home use. Limit is 15gb/month.

How did you not notice it was playing

well I notice it is playing when, erm, it is playing TV..!

I think it is reasonable to expect that viewing a forum on any platform should not use 2GB of data (assuming everything the OP says is correct)

Lets not get sidetracked by whether its tethering or a separate broadband plan. It doesn't make any difference. Point is if you are on any data plan that has a limit, having 2 GB of video downloaded without you asking for it is going to blow a big hole in it.

Which is why I have unlimited data on my mobile and at home. 🙂 It's not even that expensive.

I'd agree that having 2gb of video download without you asking for it is cheeky though.

having 2gb of video download without you asking for it is cheeky though.

That would appear to be the crux of the issue here. No problem with there being ads, as others have said, but just automatically using that much data seems 'wrong' somehow.

I'm also intrigued as how your ISP knows it was Epic TV my previous ISP couldn't tell me where bandwidth was being used.

It's the 'rubbish fills space available' maxim. In some ways, the Internet was simpler with 256kb dial up!

All your data goes through the ISP so unless you are using a proxy or something yes they know where you go on the internet

Yup that's exactly what they told me but they couldn't tell me how much data I'd used on each site just how often it was visited. In the end I just checked the browsing history on my daughter's laptop to find she'd been downloading shite movies from youtube. At that point I dumped the ISP for BT Unlimited and now it's not an issues, I should have done it sooner with all the devices that connect to internet now and as said update along can be huge.

How did you not notice it was playing and if it was at what point did you think hold it's downloading here this is using bandwidth?

When "Google Chrome Helper" was using 99% CPU time, and maxing out my network connection, when visiting a STW page.

Actually, I had no idea why it was doing that, I just swapped back to Safari, assuming it was ad related in some way.

The Epic TV player doesn't show on mobile devices. It's desktop only. So it shouldn't be using up anyone's mobile data plans.

I may be remembering wrongly, and I'll check later today, but I think the EpicTV add plays automatically on my Windows Phone, but its very obvious it's doing it as it launches the video player to do it, so it takes over the whole screen. It may only do it when using the site on wifi (I don't use the 3g much) but I would be surprised if the site/advert knew how I was connected other than just the browser type.

FWIW, and this is going to sound harsh I suspect, if you're using a limited data plan of any sort you need to set your browser to stop media content loading automatically. It's the only way to be sure. This is especially true when tethering as you wont get automatically directed to the low bandwidth versions that mobile users get.

well I notice it is playing when, erm, it is playing TV..!

I think it is reasonable to expect that viewing a forum on any platform should not use 2GB of data (assuming everything the OP says is correct)

Agreed, it hadn't really occurred to me it would be doing anything nefarious, I was annoyed by it's presence though, 'still' ads are far less distracting than moving ones.

Hi Drac,

I'm not the most tech savvy guy, so I might not get some of the terms right here, but...

Although I noticed there was this new ad appearing every time I looked at STW recently, and that it had some kind of video content which was always running, I assumed it was like a lot of other ads and was just a gif or flash that doesn't use much data, so thought nothing more of it.

Then I got an auto-notification from my broadband supplier to tell me that I'd exceeded my monthly plan and would be charged for extra data. They said I'd used 2 GB in two days. As I'd never used this much data in so short a time before I queried it, and asked them where it'd gone. I had to wait 48 hrs for their reply, but it came back that on one of the days in question I streamed 1 GB of data from a provider called "Epic TV" between 9:30pm and 11:15pm. Don't ask me how they knew it was them - but they did.

That didn't ring a bell at first, but next time I logged onto STW - there it was - Epic TV! When I moused over the video this time I realised it wasn't some flash loop or gif but was live streaming HD video like Youtube or Vimeo does. Furthermore it starts automatically as soon as you open STW, and even if you pause it, as soon as you go to the next page it starts up again!

I'm in the habit of leaving STW on my screen all evening while I go away from the computer to do other stuff - have dinner, watch a bit of TV, etc. It turns out all that time Epic TV was downloading video - once one video clip ends, it moves straight onto the next.

I think this is a questionable practice at best, and probably contravenes some consumer code of conduct somewhere. Either way, I'm not suggesting ads are banned, or even that video streaming is banned, but I think it should be 'opt in' ie you have to click on it before it starts gobbling your data allowance.

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but you did ask...

Cheers PertMTB that will be helpful.

I think this is a questionable practice at best, and probably contravenes some consumer code of conduct somewhere. Either way, I'm not suggesting ads are banned, or even that video streaming is banned, but I think it should be 'opt in' ie you have to click on it before it starts gobbling your data allowance.

Bad coding and not well thought out (it will be costing them money to stream video that no one is watching) but I would doubt it breaks any consumer laws.

I have to agree with perthmtb's post above. I also assumed it was a gif or flash that doesn't use much data. I **ahem** do much of my STW browsing at work, and if the data usage is what perthmtb claims there's a real risk that IT ban STW. I have now obviously turned this ad off using my premier status but there is a serious risk that this site has now come up on ITs radar.

For the avoidance of doubt I understand that ads are an important/ necessary part of a free forum and I'm not suggesting that STW should stop ads. I do however feel that video streaming, without opting in, is unreasonable.

Can one imagine having to actually work whilst at work, rather than browse STW?

Even on unlimited data it's a bit annoying to have your connection slowed down by something like this.

I **ahem** do much of my STW browsing at work, and if the data usage is what perthmtb claims there's a real risk that IT ban STW. I have now obviously turned this ad off using my premier status but there is a serious risk that this site has now come up on ITs radar.

This was my specific concern!

Can one imagine having to actually work whilst at work, rather than browse STW?

This has gone too far now.

We are doing a few tests on the player now to see what the actual load is. 1GB sounds like a lot for just under 2 hours. I've also asked EpicTV some questions about the player so I'll see what comes out of all that.

Can one imagine having to actually work whilst at work, rather than browse STW?

[img] [/img]

Perhaps a header above any ads that stream content notifying visitors, viewers, users of the nature of the ad and possible consequences might be a reasonable compromise?

With a link to click to join as a Premium member that will enable you to disable the ad?

I can appreciate quite clearly, that despite the altruism of Singletrackworld, when first conceived and launched, of offering a forum to encourage new and maintain readership, has become a rod for their own back at times.

At least the default for the forum is free to use, with a few options available for those who do recognise the value of this service/resource and so by subscribing or contributing are able to control the content provided to them.

There are many more sites out there that constantly stream ads in audio and video, sometimes loads of boxes all playing something or other and it takes me ages to click on them to find out which one is playing. I visited Bikeradar the other week and was plagued by very intrusive pop-up ads, despite my browser settings. I left there very quickly and haven't returned since.

I personally feel, that while I appreciate where you're coming from OP, claiming a lack of tech savvy is quite lame if you only want or choose to pay for a limited data plan, especially from a mobile provider. If you want to be that careful with your outgoings (and no wrong or right in that), then you have to take responsibility for finding out what constitutes data and how certain online content can affect that.

Can we have a fix so that the login is persistent as well, please (or is it just me?)

[i]is it just me[/i]

It's just you.

does your browser auto delete cookies when you shut it down?

Can we have a fix so that the login is persistent as well, please (or is it just me?)

Anecdotally, the only time I seem to get logged out is if I change devices or if there's been a change to the site. It doesn't happen all that often, to me at least.

Mark, is there any way for sites to automagically profile the data use of your advertisers and thus have some way to pick up if one of them is being a bit spendy with user's bandwidth?

Not possible at the moment with the tools I have.

I can't see a way of stopping the Epic ad on Mac/Safari.

I presume if you just pause it it still chugs away sending data?

That's pretty shocking. A large unsolicited data usage is still exactly that even if your broadband is unlimited.

At the very least it should be limited to the UK if it's not against the law there, since that may not be the case elsewhere. UK law probably stands but it's pretty poor not to consider that you could be imposing on non UK site visitors in ways they might not expect. Access to and cost of unlimited broadband varies internationally, it shouldn't just be presumed it's ok. When I arrived in Perth 8 years ago you couldn't even get broadband in many areas. It also strikes me as annoying that we're locked out of all the UK on demand TV sites that we might actually want to watch, yet we can get this TV channel served unsolicited.

I can't see a way of stopping the Epic ad on Mac/Safari.

You can get various extensions that make media click to play. "click2plugin" is one IIRC, there are a few. And possibly built in stuff in recent safari.

[i]It also strikes me as annoying that we're locked out of all the UK on demand TV sites that we might actually want to watch, yet we can get this TV channel served unsolicited. [/i]

I expect sorting out getting the BBC's content delivered to Perth is next on Mark's list of things to do.

is it just me

It's just you.

Just me then. Fair enough.

we're locked out of all the UK on demand TV sites that we might actually want to watch

IA - Member
You can get various extensions that make media click to play. "click2plugin" is one IIRC, there are a few. And possibly built in stuff in recent safari.

Ta - it's a work mac so I can't install anything on it.

I can't see a way of stopping the Epic ad on Mac/Safari.

Preferences - Advanced - Internet plugins

The ad doesn't disappear, the video just doesn't load unless you click on it

wwaswas, cheers, that would be really good if you could get Mark onto that. 😉 A UK based VPN and RSA token for free would be perfect. I'm not so keen on potentially dodgy proxies. While he's about it, cheaper, faster, unlimited home and mobile broadband would be good too.

tomhoward, you're joking right? Should I use my passport to return to the UK for the TV?

maccruiskeen - Member
Preferences - Advanced - Internet plugins

plug-ins is under Preferences / security and I have already unticked "allow all other plug ins" (while java is allowed)

I presumed unticking java would stop loads of stuff that's needed for work.

Just me then. Fair enough.

Nah I got logged out on my phone periodically (and seemingly randomly).

A large unsolicited data usage is still exactly that even if your broadband is unlimited.

It would argue that it's not unsolicited. By accessing any web page or internet service you are making a decision to have the data on the website sent to your device.

I agree that it's not a great advert and sucking bandwidth unnecessarily is bad practice, but I doubt you'd very far with an 'its against the law' type argument. Happy to be proved wrong though.

Can we have a fix so that the login is persistent as well, please (or is it just me?)

Me too - randomly forgets about me, and all of a sudden my system grinds to a halt if I open more than a couple of tabs with STW in them (and its not a slow laptop!)

Nice to see the STW tradition of blame the victim is alive and well. For what it's worth I think it's poor form and the STW folk seem to taking it on board. I've just switched off EpicTV in my profile - nice one. An old man writes: does anyone else remember building 50k max web pages and measuring load times? 🙂

Just switched it off now too. I was ignoring it before, but no need for huge data usage figures for no reason.

does anyone else remember building 50k max web pages and measuring load times

What he said.....

Edit....By God that delete was fast...

Edit #2 If the revenue from ads is so important make the site subscription only.

What he said.....

Edit....By God that delete was fast..

I wondered why no one else had mentioned it. Now I know.

I wondered why no one else had mentioned it. Now I know.

yeah - same here 🙄 although I have just read the rules - sorry STW mods 😳

Edit #2 If the revenue from ads is so important make the site subscription only.

...or do the owners the courtesy of not mentioning unmentionable. It's not asking much.

Jamie, No mention in my posts of such things.

.......