So the structure (rim and hub dimension) would make a greater differance then spoke guage in reality
Only based on your assumption, which I don't think is correct.
Thicker spokes must make it stronger, the maths to calculate the point of diminishing returns is way beyond us and you are only guessing to suit your belief.
I'd like to see a lot more rims available in the plus 30 mm range, too. I would think bigger rims would catch on, but then I get excited about things like truss forks.
Glad to hear the SF has a thumbs up.
I hope in five years' time I'm not still posting about Jones bikes with real Jones owners. . .
al, why's it not correct? A thicker spoke is stronger, stiffness and weight was the point I was talking about, did you mean stiffer? I may have underestimated how much stiffness a PG spoke adds, not noticed that between similar wheels I've had, but the triangulation from wider hubs does make a difference. Doesn't a good wheel design that's stiff and light start by making the rim and hub support the spokes triangulation best and use as thin / light a spoke as poss?
"I hope in five years' time I'm not still posting about Jones bikes with real Jones owners. . . "
and if you do and I'm still here, ask me why )
Top bike though. Saying much more than that starts me on a roll that after a couple of geek-outs I've had to try to keep to myself. It just comes out in a during- and post-ride grin now.
about Jones bikes with real Jones owners
I don't count, I have a gas pipe version welded by some non bearded asian gentleman rather than a proper Ti one made by a shed dwelling hippy.
Jeff does design a nice frame though and even the plebs version is ace, so a pukka Ti one will be lovely
The Ti's Tai too?
jameso you said
You're probably adding a little to something that isn't responsible for the majority of the wheel's stiffness.
which is what I was taking issue with.
I didn't really see your point about wider hubs, they do for sure make stiffer wheels (I'm not convinced regular wheels aren't stiff enough) but without new standards, discs and freehubs define the flange width.
what's the loP?
I'd say as long as the spoke can hold the tension you need any stiffness gained from the thicker spoke is simply by adding more material. Not the most effective way to increase stiffness compared to looking a the stucture. You're probably adding a little to something that isn't responsible for the majority of the wheel's stiffness.
So the structure (rim and hub dimension) would make a greater differance then spoke guage in reality, especially if you consider stiffness-to-weight.
The effectiveness of gaining stiffness by adding material to the spokes depends on what contribution the spokes make to the stiffness compared to their mass. I get your point about hub dimensions - though as cynic-al points out, there's not a lot you can do with that inside existing standards. The rim dimensions make no difference at all to the triangulation of the spokes - they might make a rim on its own stiff, but a wheel is a lot stiffer than a rim on its own. I'd argue that in terms of stiffness to weight, the spoke gauge actually makes a lot of difference. I can even do some numbers for you: a wheel of PG spokes is 222g, a wheel of revs is 141.5g http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Spokes.aspx - for your 80g extra weight you get 11% more wheel stiffness http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm#7
That sheldon brown link is really helpful aracer.
For this build I'd choose that amount of stiffness over the weight loss.
I'm no mathematician but I do want my wheels as stiff as possible -- with a rigid ride, as I understand it, a 135 mm hub makes a big, big difference. Not that I know from experience, though (yet).
So Jeff said the new Tai frames were better made than his own, right? Not sure how.
JRA just called to say the rims came in; and the spoke decision is Revs.
Why? Not because of stiffness etc but because Super Comps only come in black.
Yep. I'll make sure I specify that in the thread next time. . .
seriously they said they'll be good.
the spoke decision is Revs.
Why? Not because of stiffness etc but because Super Comps only come in black.
Comps then - they come in silver - as I suggested earlier. Save money, have stiffer wheels.
actually gave comps more of a look than I would have done yesterday, but revs it is.
thanks for the comments.
11pc stiffness gain ain't much, but its a gain, granted. The rinard link suggests it's a deflection diff of a fraction of a mm. 80g ain't much either. Nathans right, color or builder advice is more of a decider ) or cost.
Edit Al I prob don't express my thinking very clearly in writing, I'm not confident I'm right either, if I could figure out what diff flange dimensions made we could compare it to spokes but I wouldn't do it just to score points, simply a point that got me thinking. If you get an answer anywhere I'm interested tho.
80gm is say 7% so 11% gain in stiffness seems good to me.
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