I’m trying to get my new C456 setup and not sure what to try. I had it for a week with my old bars and stem, which were 620 wide riser bars with a fairly steep angle 100 stem. Now I’ve bought a 685 flat bar and I tried riding with the 100mm low rise stem off my road bike (can’t use my old stem as the new bar is a 31.8 diameter, the old bar is 25.8).

With the old narrower riser bar and high stem, it felt fine for height but a tad short.

With the current setup it feels really low, which is OK until it gets steep and then i get very nervous! Also the steering seems a bit vague and slow.

So I want a new stem, but not sure if, with the wider bar I should go shorter, and if so how much shorter? Is the vague steering due to the stem length with the wider bar?

What I think I should go for is a shorter stem (80mm, would the 20mm difference be noticable?) with a high rise, 35 degrees maybe?

I would put the old bars and stem back on but there was a nasty creaking sound coming from one of them! Need to get this sorted asap as I am doing the Kielder 100 next week and don’t fancy 100 miles with this setup.

What size are you and the bike?

I

I’m 6ft2 with long legs and the bike is a 20″. Saddle almost all the way up. Last bike was a 21″ with a much higher front end.

Pop some more spacers under the stem?

Would suggest going to some mates houses and trying what they have. Either that or down to the bike show and see what you can try out.

a 456 (of any vintage) with narrow bars and a road bike length stem!

Have you seen recommended stem length? I started using a 70mm +6deg stem with 660mm wide bars. Then went to 685mm bars as they 660mm were too narrow and now use 750mm wide with a 55mm 0deg rise stem.

What forks have you got?

Also if the bike feels short stick a 0 rise, shorter stem on and some low rise bars. Use spacers to adjust the height. I’d go 80mm max length.

edit: just saw your ‘low comment’ – i’d bring the stem length down and see if this stops you feeling like you are going over the front. But the lowness will use more arm length – ie bringing the bars upwards shortens the reach.

Shorter stem required methinks!

maybe go for some rise, but a short stem and move the saddle back? Do you have an inline post?

These bars at 685 feel really wide to me, after 10 years of riding at 620! I clipped a tree last ride due to a new bar / spatial awareness failure, so don’t fancy going any wider just yet. I’ve got plenty of steerer sticking out and loads of spacers to play with height, I guess I am just not sure about a shorter stem. I know the 20″ 456 is recommended up to 80mm, I only stuck the road bike one on as a temporary measure to see how things felt.

So a 20mm shorter stem would quicken up the steering, yes?

And a 35 degree rise would get me some height without being on top of a 2″ pile of spacers.

Sounds like a plan. Cheers folks.

Saddle is back on the rails as far as it will go, on an inline post. forks are 100mm.

A shorter stem will also put your weight further back on the bike, which should help when the going gets steeper.

‘d bring the stem length down and see if this stops you feeling like you are going over the front. But the lowness will use more arm length – ie bringing the bars upwards shortens the reach.

Are you saying to go for a low rise shorter stem? It feels really low at the moment, but maybe that’s something i can get used to (quite like it on the flat actually) just not sure if the lowness is contributing to my over-the-bars fears or if that is the stem length.

100mm seems long for a 456, I settled on 60mm but 50mm worked pretty well too.

It does have a smaller headtube than many, so the bars might end up a little low if you go purely off that.

my other guess is your forks are 50mm too short and you need 745’s on there 😉

There is no absolute formula but try is a good option. A good bike shop mechanic should be able to help you out fairly quickly

My steel 456 was horrible with a 100 stem and 105mm forks. Much improved with an 80 stem and 130 Revs.

The wide bar/long stem combo is definitely the cause of your slow steering feedback, I’ve recently done the same thing myself. Short stem is the way forward, I went from 670 bars/90mm stem to 720/70mm stem which feels right. As already stated, shorter stem will put weight back on the descents. And in my experience altering a stem by10mm can make a huge difference in feel.

Thanks all, off to the lbs tomorrow morning so hopefully can get this sorted – short stem it is.

Definitely drop at least 20mm.

Have a friend the same height as you on a 20″ inbred and he’s running a 90mm stem as he can’t be bothered to buy a new one. I am going to stick a 60 or 70mm stem on it soon as I’m fed up having to wait for him to mince down behind me as he ‘doesnt feel confident’.

Consider a layback post or just use bar ends on the flat to stretch yourself out.

Longer travel forks needed, 130 to 140 I’d say. I’d also get a 60mm stem or possibly a 50mm stem, with a slight rise.

Also, push the saddle forwards a bit to but a bit more weight over the front. This will shorten it up making it feel more flickable.

I’m running a 90mm stem on a c456, against all advice I know but I can’t see how i can get away with anything shorter. My bars are 710mm so middle wide. I’ve 30mm of spacers under the stem and the bars are high rise, all done because I had similar thoughts to you when i had my old lower narrower gear on the bike. The bad news is that I really didn’t start to get on with it until I put some 150mm forks in it, I don’t think the frame is slack enough for lower travel. I may even contemplate a slack set at some point! I think my previous Marin Rocky Ridge spoiled me, it was perfect for almost everything at 130mm, but winding my Pike forks out to 140mm really choppered it out, hopeless for normal riding but absolutely perfect for throwing yourself downhill.

The 456, as you probably know means suitable for a 4,5 or 6″ fork. That doesnt mean all those fork lengths are suitable for all applications.

If you are riding steep stuff, a 100mm fork will have lowered your bars by 50mm compared to a 150mm fork that many would use in that situation. You also have flat bars, which probably drops you another 20mm over a standard low riser. You also have a fairly long stem, which will stretch you out, putting your weight even further forward.

I’d say your bike is set up in XC race mode, not trail demon mode like most 456’s. For example, my C456 has 150 fork, 680 riser bars and a 70mm stem.

I have the same bike and I run 711 Sunline bars and a 40mm sunline V1 tem. Feels really good.

My c456 has:
150mm forks
layback post
50mm stem
760mm bars

I started out with a steel one years ago (one of the first in ‘that green’).

I’ve always had a layback post – all my bikes (MTB or road) have layback posts and the saddle back a bit (but not all the way) on the post.

Forks started out as 100-130mm Revs, then 110 – 140 Pikes, then 120-160mm ‘zocchi 55s until the current ‘zocchi 150mm 44s. I rarely dropped either of the RS forks from max travel. With the 55s (which I had on both the steel and carbon bike) I’d run it normally at 140mm before winding it out to 160mm for fun down.

Apart from a brief flirtation with the Mary bars that it came with, bars started out quite wide with first an 80mm stem and then a 60mm stem. I’ve only recently switched to the 50mm stem and very wide bars but so far I really like the combo. The only problem so far is that the steps down to the canal that I must have ridden 100 times have a wooden post at the bottom. I must have been just missing it all these years. First time down with the wider bars I clipped it, was flipped OTB and very nearly got wet.

There are a few things you’ve pointed out OP.

I think you’re used to the previous, more XC style of front end setup which your frame is not designed for (to get the best out of it). What type of stuff do you ride and which fork is hanging out of the headtube?

I think a 700mm+ high riser bar and short stem (50-70mm) would feel appropriate for the frame, but understand it’s alien to you. Long stem and low bar are going to curl you up in a strange long human comet shape: not comfy or relaxed to ride in but quite aerodynamic.

More bar=more leverage but slower turning circle, short stems stop the bar feeling slow and keep things snappy as well as bringing the weight forward to match the slacker HA contemporary bikes have. It feels more stable in the rough but nimble when you need to manouvre. But you’ve probably read/heard this a few times before!

A layback seatpost may help shift your weight and give you a bit more room, but that’s a whole other variable.

In short, your cockpit has your weight in the wrong place. Get your weight back a bit and stretch out wider for a larger ‘footprint’. You should be able to stand tall on the back with level pedals (knees slightly bent), elbows out, chin up and comfortable. This sets you up ready to absorb whatever you approach.

Like this chap:

Maybe a Whippet may have been more suitable for you? There’s nothing wrong with the XC approach, but it only makes sense to apply it with the right frame and terrain.

Post pic of your set up

Did i just read you have 100mm forks on it? Why? if your going to run the short forks you should have just bought a Whippet or Scandal.

100mm is the short fork setup, it would stand to reason your front end is now 2″ lower than at 6″ forks, no way would i at that point be dropping to a lower bar setup.

That 2″ of spacers you don’t want is actually needed.

Jedi has a point, post a pic, he helps people for a living! either that or he fancies seeing the only 456 in existence thats running short forks.

Minimum fork at a push for a 456 is 120mm i had 130’s and that felt perfect. No wonder you feel to far over on steep stuff.

The 456 is designed for a 100mm fork minimum. At least that’s what On-one say, others may know better. Lots of folk on this here forum have posted to say they are happy with their 456 as a 100mm forked bike. Others have said it’ll only be any good with a 150mm fork.

I’ve just come back from the LBS and been recommended a 80mm stem, as expected. The guy there seems to know what he’s talking about and didn’t try to sell me a new fork or frame!

I know that whatever I do the bike will feel different to what I am used to and I will adjust. I had some short rigid forks on my old bike for a while and at first it felt incredibly twitchy, then after a week or two it was just normal. Then returning to my suss forks it felt slow to steer.

My riding is not very gnarly, the Kielder 100 is the toughest terrain I have ridden, mostly I ride on the Ridgeway or my local trail which is tight and twisty with a few small drops. I’m not doing generally jumps or lots of downhill. I might have gone for a Whipppet or Scandal, I didn’t want the press fit BB, really wanted a carbon frame and the 456 was half price! Now I’ve got it I love it I just want to get the riding position as good as I can.

Anyway, here’s some pictures for you to mock/give helpful comments on 🙂

Old bike:

New bike:

You’re not meant to run more than an 80mm stem on an on-one due to the longer top tubes – 100mm will make it feel very vague, particularly for a bike like a 456.

Also, your bars need rotating forwards (unless that’s how you like it).

Hmmmmmm.

That setup just seems way wrong.

I’m 6′ 1/2 and leggy.

On my 20″ c456:

680 Riser bars (would like wider but I’m mean)
80mm Stem, would like to try a 70mm
In-line post but always dropped way out of the way for going down steep stuff (would love a 150mm dropper, but again, too mean).
120-160mm forks.

The 456 is a fun/be silly on bike and really should be kitted out as such. Yeah, it’s light enough to ride XC but the angles beg for silliness.

OP – I’m a couple of inches taller than you and ride a 20″ 456 (SS), which came with a 90mm stem and 685 mid rise (38mm i think) bars. I changed the stem to 70mm after one ride up the street. The bars were spot on but I changed them to wider 18mm rise ones recently. I run my talas at 110mm most of the time and this setup works really well for me.

If i were you I go with a 70mm stem, some mid-rise bars and try a 10mm spacer under the stem. That’ll still give you plenty of room, but more responsive steering and a bit more height at the bars.

I would also be tempted by 70mm.

Maybe also (waits for Jedi to comment on this) look at your brake lever angle.

I run my C456 at 100mm and enjoy it – eg doing the twisty trails at Ashton Court and on just XC rides and then wind the forks out to 130mm at other times. I do with I had longer forks at times but I am saving the money for a skills session as it will be far more reward.

Have you got your fork set up right too?

Just ordered an 80mm stem so we’ll see how that goes. Not sure about the forks setup to be honest. All I’ve adjusted out of the box is the rebound rate – made it quicker. Felt miles better than my old Tora fork without any further adjustment. Something I keep meaning to look into though!

Have tried various brake lever angles and these feel ok to me but would take advice on trying something else.

620mm bars and a 100mm stem on a 456… ❓

It’s made for 140mm, 150mm or 160mm forks.

Putting your stem and bar combo on that bike is like putting drop-hand;e bars on Trek session 88.

I’d say go 70 or 80 mm stem and 720 bars – good compromise between secure handling going down and comfort going up.

It’s 4, 5 or 6 inches, not 140, 150, 160mm.From the On-One website: “It will work great with a fork ranging from 100-160mm travel”

The bars are 685 wide now – the 620 ones were off my old bike.

Everyone on here complains too many people fall for marketing blurb, and then regurgitate whatever is printed on the on-one website (including the many MANY mistakes).

The on-one has a short headtube to prevent the bars getting too high when youve got a long fork. Your running a shorter fork so to get the bars to a sensible height you’ll need a lot of spacers or a high-rise stem. Compared to your old bike (which has quite high bars) its not surprising your struggling. Possibly a shorter stem might help your descending ability, its true the 456C is a little longer than most but that tottally depends on what length your old bike was (as a 21″ it was probably longer than the on-one is!).

Now the final thing, do you actually want to make it into what its supposed to be? or do you want to make it a bike you are happy to ride. My guess is you need to ignore the ‘hardcore dudes’ and sort out your bar height first.

Drop the spacers from under the stem and raise the brake levers to matxch the top pic. 🙂

Yep, the 80mm stem will help, but I also reckon you need a riser bar. If you are interested, I have a monkey lite carbon riser bar (711mm) and a 70mm stem off an old build I could send you to try out. Email me if you are interested. They are light, but were tough enough for my Heckler Alps bike!

Thanks I might be interested in those if the 80mm stem on it’s own doesn’t go far enough. Gonna have to be enough for the Kielder 100 next weekend though, should be a pretty thorough test ride 🙂

Marv, I could stick them in the post to you tomorrow if you like – you would have them on weds! email me if you are interested and we can sort the details.

Me thinks you fell into the same trap I did. You need a 120 fork minimum for this bike and I think 130 to 140 is probably ideal. The seat tube angle is meant to keep some weight over the front as well. 680mm min bar with a short stem 50 to 70mm then when you get used to this something like a 750mm havoc. I hate to say it but I think you should have got a Whippet. K100 on a 456, you can do it but a Whippet will be so much quicker and take less out of you.