Spent Easter Hols in the US – Great holiday, but came back with some quite mixed feelings…

It’s a strange place. I know the oft quoted line of “Similar but different”, etc and recognise that there will be lot of variation state to state and urban to rural.

Modern in so many ways, but so deeply conservative. And for the “land of the free”, they do bureaucracy / petty rules in a way that would drive Europeans to distraction.

Interested in others’ thoughts on the place (recognising “place” = large diverse continent!!)

Well I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this, being married to one of ‘them’.

A fairly astute first impression I think. Where did you go?

Similar but different runs far deeper than you would ever imagine. I keep uncovering new deeper layers of similarity and difference as I learn more and more.

I think one of their biggest issues is insularity. People just don’t look outward – not because they choose to be ignorant about things but because that’s the way everything is.

Same language, different culture. The language thing means that lots of people think the culture will be the same.

Nice to visit, wouldn’t want to live there.

Same language, different culture.

I found this applies within the US itself. Tallahasse vs San Diego, Atlanta vs Portland and so on.

I’m not saying a thing!

They know how to do food.

I suddenly understand your wife’s attitude to Germany Molgrips.

Same language, different culture.

Really??? Fairly sure that is not the case.

They know how to do food.

No. Food was pretty poor, and far more expensive than I had expected. Had two really good meals – pizza in a local (ie non-chain) Italian, and a very, very good steak. Everything else was big on quantity, low on quality.

Same language, different culture.

Definitely – I find in many ways we’re a lot closer culturally to the Spanish (where I live) than the US.

They know how to do food.

Disagree. Waffles, burgers and tex mex are all well and good for a holiday but you really wish for a change after a while… Of course this is as much a big city/boondocks thing as anything else.

Culture is not necessarily all that different in many ways. It’s predominantly Anglo-Saxon after all, and this gives similaritie that you don’t notice til you spend time in a third location as well.

I suddenly understand your wife’s attitude to Germany Molgrips.

Like F you do!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqIWPvCgi9g&feature=relmfu[/video]

Was in North Carolina, so sort of “southern” and sort of “bible belt”, which probably explains a lot.

Really, really, could not get my head around all of the rules. Spent a fair bit of time walking in state forests / parks etc. Each place had a list of rules to fill a whole sign board – with “a full set of rules and regs available in the ranger station”…

First up was always – (in order of importance)…

– No alcaholic beverages
– No firearms / concealed weapons
– stick to the trail (or words to that effect…

Big difference on The Rules compared with UK / Europe is that we tend to use rules and regs as a “guideline” to acceptable behaviour. I got the feeling in the US that pretty much every citizen would buttonhole you on the street if you were doing something “different”

Also – the social opener of “Fancy a beer” was often heard, but often really did mean “fancy A beer” 🙁

As you said – big place. Where were you?

Given you say their petty rules would ‘drive Europeans to distraction’ – there are many European countries that have rules far more petty than anything the USA can come up with.

What you see depends on where you are standing. A ‘long drive’ for a Brit means something different to most Americans – several hundred to thousand miles different!

different culture.
…
Fairly sure that is not the case.

I’ve been a few times. It’s a diverse place.

Every time an American visits London and then goes home telling everyone they’ve “seen England,” I kill a kitten. Please don’t make the same mistake. (-: Whereabouts did you go?

It’s my belief that compared to us, there are some things the Americans do really well, and some things they do really badly. We probably come out about equal on balance.

Spent a fair bit of time walking in state forests / parks etc

This always irritates me. Typically you can only do your outdoor pursuits in special sanctioned areas like state parks or in public owned land (of which there is naff all out East). Lots of states have none, so in half the country your MTBing is restricted to a pootle around the local woodland park being careful not to go to fast or stray from the surfaced trails.. 🙁

I did a 3 month tour of central US and the west cost
what I was surprised at, and liked, was the wide variation in people, culture, food, attitude and music – some good, some bad
I particularly liked San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle and to some extent Chicago
there was a lot I didn’t see, but I think I saw enough(!)
you can not judge the US based on one visit to one place

molgrips – that’s entirely the impression I got. Only mtb trails I saw were like particularly smooth versions of FC fireroad.

Yet pretty much the whole of NC is forest

Trying to compare the US with the UK is a fruitless exercise, it is such a vast country with many different vibes. A good example is comparing LA with San Fran – same state, very different cities.

Some areas of the country you get awful food – Georgia, North Carolina etc etc, other areas you get fantastic food – San Francisco, Colorado, New Mexico.

Comparing countries would be like comparing London with Stoke-on-Trent!

Ah, ok. I’ve never been to North Carolina (though I’ve spent a deal of time in Kentucky and driven through Tennessee and Georgia, both of which border NC).

The bible belt is a bloody weird place. People with statues of the Virgin Mary in their garden, and not just like garden gnomes, but four-foot high statues and bigger.

It’s my belief that compared to us, there are some things the Americans do really well, and some things they do really badly. We probably come out about equal on balance.

that. not that i’ve spent that much time out there, but when i do i’m generally working. over a 2 weeks period you’re lucky to get a couple of days worth or fruit and veg in regular meals that are bought out. more meat than you can shake a leg at though…

i also find it odd that you can be arrested for not having any money in your pocket too 😀

ver a 2 weeks period you’re lucky to get a couple of days worth or fruit and veg in regular meals that are bought out.

That’s almost certainly regional. I never had a problem (as a veggie) until I went to Las Vegas, where I almost starved to death.

I spent a while living with a mate from the US, in Missouri, and I found the place to be quite liberal to be honest.

Drivers seemed far more relaxed than in Europe, we could take a boat out on the river whenever we wanted, with no licences etc, and could go shooting whenever we wanted too.

The food was great if you know where to go (it’s difficult finding good food in the UK too if you don’t know the area), and it was far cheaper than here.

Like anywhere, the differences in culture should be embraced, rather than viewed as being strange.

They are a bit strange though…

😉

Drivers seemed far more relaxed than in Europe

They are relaxed, but that seems to be because they don’t care about what they are doing 🙂 Every time we go past Chicago we’re sucked into a big raft of traffic barrelling along at 85mph 6ft apart, and if you look around people are yakking away, chatting on phones, staring blankly ahead.. quite worrying.

the differences in culture should be embraced

Ordinarily I’d absolutely agree. But as an “outdoors” type person I found it utterly frustrating to be surrounded by forest (even in the resi areas), but have access to none. Or to have access so severly regulated. I expected “the outdoor life” to be a big thing, but basically it wasn’t.

My “outdoorsyness” didn’t really embrace a culture that seemed to revolve around homelyness, the CAR, the MALL and work, (oh, and even though our hosts didn’t do religion, Religion).

Ohh, and on The Rules thing – questioning / challenging Authority seemed to risk being involved in a deeply subversive activity

Your problem Molgrips, not mine.

Used to live and work in Missouri, we had some event and they were trying to work out how many people they could seat in the gym. The subject of sticking to fire regs came up, didn’t help any as there were no fire regs in that particular county.

So I can’t say in my experience there are far more petty rules etc. I think there are different rules and because they’re rules you’re not used to they stick out but I’m not convinced there are more. Take a look at the number of byelaws on the back of a national trust sign next time you see one.

I always think United States is a bit of a misnomer, because they’re not really that united, they all have different rules, laws, tax systems etc.

Your problem Molgrips, not mine.

What is?

ebygomm – in Mrs Grips’ home town (and possibly elsewhere) you are not allowed to park on the side of the road facing the wrong direction. It’s stuff like this that I find remarkable. There are a great many very minor rules and laws. It seems to be very easy for the local govt to slap on another rule for some local reason without any objection.

Funny – apart from the weather we’d looked at Raleigh NC as a possible place to live – one of the best restaurants I’ve ever eaten in was there as well. They owned a farm on the edge of the city and grew / farmed nearly everything they served – so food is subjective.

I sort of agree about the wilderness access – except you didn’t mention hunting (which is certainly off the trails) and the trails they do have are far better and nore extensive than a few trail centres. I visited York PA and saw some wonderful singletrack there. I regularly visit MO and ride some lovely maintained dedicated singletrack there. Richmond VA has a loop in the middle of the city that is over 20 miles long. Different, but mostly different because they haven’t been constrained by a lack of space – hence why they built such sprawling towns and cities with no regard to anything – they didn’t have to.

you are not allowed to park on the side of the road facing the wrong direction.

Fairly sensible road safety rule there really. Cuts down on stupid driving accidents I bet.

you are not allowed to park on the side of the road facing the wrong direction

That rule applies in a lot (most?) places in the USA and elsewhere too, e.g. Australia

I’m not sure I’d describe it as a petty rule, just one that I’m not used to. I’m sure there are similar rules in the UK which seem absolutely normal to us but strange to a foreigner.

Not really, because in pulling out from the ‘right’ side of the road you have to look very sharply behind you. Harder than the alternative in many ways I feel. But it’s an example of extra regulation instead of letting people use their judgement.

ebygomm – in Mrs Grips’ home town (and possibly elsewhere) you are not allowed to park on the side of the road facing the wrong direction

Look in the Highway Code….

except you didn’t mention hunting (which is certainly off the trails)

In WI you get about 10 days to hunt deer. It’s really really strictly regulated. And you can only do it on private land with the permission of the landowner. No hunting on public land (bar a few exceptions I think, not sure). There are tons of regs about it too but those are pretty much entirely sensible. However there’s no reg about drinking whilst hunting which would help reduce accidents I feel 🙂

And then you have states like Illinois where motorcycle helmets aren’t mandatory.

Is it extra regulation or different regulation?

Definitely extra in small fairly silly things imo – although I don’t recall the things that made me think that at the time. Possibly not enough in key areas though.

I liked it when I was there 20yrs ago. Big place, nice folk, especially in the NW.

But I did seem to keep meeting coppers inviting me to stop doing what I was doing- generally being in the wrong place, in their inestimiable view, but not up to anything ‘naughty.’ Quite rule driven with rules enforced as some of the other posters have said, but groovy once you’d accepted how it all worked.

The overriding feelings I got from my visits to America were that:

They have a very similar sense of humour and your average man on the street does get irony, sometimes anyway.

They are fed an awful lot of rubbish by the media.

Very insular, the vast, and I mean vast majority have never been outside America and never will. The rest of the world either doesn’t exist or just doesn’t matter. Texas in particular seemed to have an awful lot of (educated) people in it who when being told I was from England, asked where that was. One lady in a petrol station was pleased that she knew it was ‘near Europe’.

One thing that was universal though through New York, Texas, Colorado, Carolina…. Lane Discipline….What’s that?

period you’re lucky to get a couple of days worth or fruit and veg in regular meals that are bought out. more meat than you can shake a leg at though…

hehe. Yeah. All meat dishes. I wouldn’t have believed it until it happened to me. And if you ask where the veg is they give you some potato salad.

They are fed an awful lot of rubbish by the media.

Yep. Another major major issue they have is the media. It only wants to sell copy/airtime so standards of responsibility are low I feel. They know they can sell by telling people what they want to hear so will pander to people’s preconceptions. Politics is a disaster. It’s a house of cards built entirely on spin and waffle, and bears absolutely no relation to how the country’s actually run. Blows the whole democratic process out of the water and turns it into pointless vile tribal squabbling.

We have exactly the same problem.