UPVC door fault « Singletrack Forum

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UPVC door fault

22 posts & 9 voices | Started 6 months ago by z1ppy | Latest reply from magowen100

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z1ppy - Member

When the g/f locked (pull handle up & it locks) the front door last night something went clunk and now we can't open it at all...
Luckily I have the backdoor key so we weren't locked out and didn't need to smash a window to get back in.
Builder m8 is coming over tonight to have a poke at it... but any one got experiences of problem with these things? Key happily spins in the lock and feel like it unlocking but the handle won't be budged.

Were not going to complain if we have to replace it, as it was a few years old when we bought the house 4-5 years ago.
Any thoughts, if something inside has broken, will the whole thing need breaking up or will we be able to take covers off the inside to get to the internals?

Posted 6 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

Mine did that - a hard push on handle fixed it sort off. It actaullay broke the lock mechanism.

Still works but hanlde hangs down a tad.

You can replace the whole locking strip - check ebay only 40 quid ish.

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

There's a small cast piece of metal with teeth on, it's lost some of those teeth.
Some locking mechs are sealed units, but in all honesty your better off changing the whole lock.

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

will it be a simple job to get the door open and replace it though?
Somthing we'll be able to deal with (reasonable bike mechanic skills ) or should we simply call in a specialist?

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

Fairly simple with the right tool and the know how. Prolly best get the locksmith round otherwise you may damage the door trying to open it.

Posted 6 months ago #
Rusty Mac - Member

Is it a door lock like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FERCO-5-28-UPVC-DOOR-LOCK-MULTI-POINT-4-ROLLER-LATCH-/120594953991?pt=UK_HaG_Lock_Safes_GL&hash=item1c1404f707

If so it could be a bit of a nightmare to get in. I have something similar on some of my windows and it was the bit that the handle went through that disintigrated (circular bit with the square hole), fortuneately for me it happend when the window was open but my neighbours one failed when closed and it was an entirely different story getting his window sorted.

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

Doh! OK, will take a look tonight with my m8 and let him do much whistling between the teeth before investigating a lock smith tomorrow.
I'm hoping the inside of the door will be dismantlable and not too much trouble RM (I really hope)

Cheers all

Posted 6 months ago #
carbon337 - Member

Its not the lock i wouldn't have thought (as in where the key goes in) they are just a barrel that go through the mechanism. Your mechanism will be buggered as mine is.

Remove handles - that will expose a bar between handles - remove that thats where the square hole is in the image below.

Remove all screws in the edge of the door top to bottom - one of the screws (the big hole in the edge on the image below) holds the lock mechanism in place- remove this and pull your barrel out of the keyhole shaped area - this is what your keys turn. This is just a universal part.

You will need to measure the depth of the mechanism area and total length of the strip - also look for any manufacturer markings to help you identify. Then get on ebay and have a look there are loads of them

If you can operate a screwdriver you will have no problem.

Posted 6 months ago #
radtothepowerofsik - Member

That's provided he can get it open again...

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

yes getting it open does seem to be the issue...

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

Let us know how you get on.

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

if there is any interest in this... a UPVC fitter suggest to my m8, to use more force onthe handle, as otherwise it was going to be very very messy getting it open.
So I applied more pressure and it came open (i had wanted to originally but was told by "she who must be obeyed" not too..), and we've replace the key barrel as this does seems 'sticky', but are going to take a look at the rest of the mechanism when he has time next week, as the door handle still 'droops' when unlocked..

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

I'm still intrested, after all I am a locksmith.

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

ohhh can you answer another question about the key barrel then?
I went to you-tube and looked up opening upvc door and you get quite a few vids showing the barrels being broken and popped out easily (screw in lock and claw hammer used to pull them to pieces), how do the new "improved" barrels stop this, as it obvious the weak point is where the screw holds the lock in place, as there's so little metal there...

I have a 2nd question but would prefer to email, rather than discuss it on an open forum, would you mind?

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

Some of the new Cylinders have a deliberate snapping point further towards each end of the cylinder to stop the obvious weak point.

Email if you want.

Posted 6 months ago #
project - Member

A local native from around these parts decisded he was going to break into the local care home by burning a hile throught he plastic door, he just st of the fire alarm, and got caught by the staff.

Posted 6 months ago #
slackman99 - Member

If you're getting a new lock cylinder, it's worth spending an extra few quid to get an anti bump and anti snap cylinder. Some of the non anti bump cylinders can be opened with (as the name suggests) a small key like implement and a short sharp shock/bump to the end of the implement.

The anti snap is a bit like a break away mech bolt, in that the front section of the cylinder comes away rather than snapping in the centre which allow a tea leaf to access the lock and open the door.

Yale/Cisa etc all do this kind of cylinder for about £20

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

yes looking at the vids on you-tube, it does seem that most locks out there aren't really very secure... temp jobby in at the moment but I can change that myself now the door opens and closes.

EDIT a quick re-read of the thread and it seem the 1st reply from carbon337 was onto a winner. Again, I hadn't tried this, only as I was told specifically not to... as I might have a small rep for using more force than is necessarily necessary.

Posted 6 months ago #
mrmo - Member

this is not to put you off getting a better cylinder but...

There is always weak point, get a better cylinder but what about the lock? i assume it is a multipoint and that you also have some teeth on the hinge side? but then the upvc frame is only held in with a few screws so it is perfectly possible to cut the frame out and leave the door intact?

The better the fitter the harder it is to get out and shoddy workmanship isn't always as obvious as you might think.

Posted 6 months ago #
slackman99 - Member

mrmo point taken, but I think there's more likelihood that someone would catch/hear/see a thief cutting a door frame out than bumping a cylinder.

If I were a crim (which i'm not)and I couldn't bump/snap the cylinder, i'd be going through the door panel/glass, especially if it was a upvc panel in the door.

As with many things (including most bike locks), it's only there to deter an opportunist crim. Unless you live in Fort Knocks, a determined crimial will get in regardless.

Posted 6 months ago #
flatfish - Member

Knox.

Posted 6 months ago #
magowen100 - Member

Just been through exactly the same with my lock at home.
The handle just spun as the bit with the square hole (name?) broke into bits. The important measurements are the backset and the PZ or centre distance- mine was a 45mm backset with a 70mm PZ which is a size no one makes any more. I managed to fit a 45mm/92 and reuse some of the holes but it could have been a lot worse. The other measurements you need are for the hooks or rollers so they slot into the existing receivers.
Bottom line if I could fit a lock any numpty should be able to - it really isn't that hard.

Posted 6 months ago #