I only knew one person at uni who had it paid for by wholy by family, and that was by an inherited trust fund.

really? there were at least 3 people on my course (of 25) and a few more rounds halls. brighton uni – so not famed for its rich kids.

When my lad grows up I would rather he got a proper training than some Mickey Mouse degree

There’s a lot of nostalgia for ‘real jobs'(tm). Does anyone with this nostalgia actualy work on the shop floor of a factory/down a coal mine/etc doing the’se jobs we lament loseing to be replaced by banking and call centers?

really? there were at least 3 people on my course (of 25) and a few more rounds halls. brighton uni – so not famed for its rich kids.

On my course there were none from the UK, and one guy who’d lived here most his life but didn’t have a UK passport but did have rich parents.

Not exactly a reprisentattive sample, but unless your couse was only 3 people then it’s still a small proportion.

the thing I really disagree with is the apparent plan to penalise people for paying off their loans early. I paid off my loan early cos I got a decent job. I don’t see how being out of debt is something an individual should be encouraged not to do

5lab – Member
the thing I really disagree with is the apparent plan to penalise people for paying off their loans early. I paid off my loan early cos I got a decent job. I don’t see how being out of debt is something an individual should be encouraged not to do

I guess it’s because it makes higher education cheaper for rich people. Even at £9k a year, university is still cheaper than many private schools.

Harry_the_Spider – Member
A cunning ploy to get people entering apprenticeships or undertake other vocational training (assuming that it is available)? When my lad grows up I would rather he got a proper training than some Mickey Mouse degree.

What’s a mickey mouse degree?

We’ve got slightly lower applications but we’re anticipating offering more places due to the changes in funding.

Our rest-of-uk interest is bizarrely up- apparently all the talk in England of tuition fees for scottish universities has had the effect of having english students go “Wow, I didn’t know they had universities in Scotland”, whereas our highest-allowable charging has made us more desirable since obviously, we must be good 😉

We’ll fill all our SAAS-funded places with ease again and end up turning away good students (Alex Salmond- “No tuition fees for scottish students on my watch. But I will happilly cut places because nobody notices that”).

There’s a lot of nostalgia for ‘real jobs’

I know a few tradesman! 🙄

Even in my chosen profession earning well above the national average I would probably have been better off going down the same route as them.

Let’s face it though, we have a whole load of graduates who have been encouraged to go to Uni who are now filling basic admin jobs. A lot of them will fill similar roles throughout their careers, drafting poorly worded e-mails, with horrendous spelling and struggling with basic maths.

For a lot of people these days Uni is a waste of time and money.

still they keep me in work TSY so lets not discourage it just yet
Personally if my kids wer enot doing a vocational degree iw ould discourage them from University which is ashame for them if not the country.

What amsess me is how many people come out with poor degrees we have people with a d and and an E at a level going on to get a third and that debt WHY?

What amsess me is how many people come out with poor degrees we have people with a d and and an E at a level going on to get a third and that debt WHY?

Ummm… I think that’s my point just worded a different way. 😆

(not the spelling content btw 😉 )

What amsess me is how many people come out with poor degrees we have people with a d and and an E at a level going on to get a third and that debt WHY?

here’s my take on it:

cos its fun to avoid the real big bad world of grown-up work and bills junky, debt isnt the biggest fear when you’re 17 and kids are constantly being told the world is a horrible shit place to grow up into. i can understand them wanting to mess around at uni for 3-4 years, then travel a bit, then return to live with their parents again whilst they doss about in a state of unemployment or piss easy jobs for a few years whilst deciding what to do with their life and almost pointless 3rd class degree in media. when everyone else is doing it, well why be the exeption to the rule… the goverment will have to take care of people if everyones in the same situation yeah? so why bother working hard, not getting into debt, living within your means and other such sensible ways of living!

What’s a mickey mouse degree?

We had a lad (who didn’t last through probation) at our place recently. B.Eng Mech Eng and he didn’t have a clue. How the hell he got it we have no idea. Hard degrees for the smartest, not the richest or those that want to stay on in eductaion for another 3 years in a bid to avoid reality.

mrsconsequence got told to get pregnant by the lady working at the jobcentre when she was 17 and having problems at home so she could get a house and benefits.

luckily for me she went to uni, got 1% off a first class degree in psychology, worked as a specialist Independent Domestic Violence Advisor for high risk cases with the police and now works for the probations service in a prison as a programme facilitator for the perpetrators of domestic violence.

my point (apart from being proud of her)… the goverments and the generation above us have created a country that hands out money to people who boast about doing nothing for that money, they feel they deserve it and when government workers are also advising people to go down that route… we cant expect things to get much better. That apathy towards responsibility spreads to people who are perfectly able to study hard and achieve something/make a difference in life.

BUT there are people out there who ignore the advice from benefit receiving friends, job centre staff and in many cases (i imagine) their parents and work hard and try to make sensible decisions that hopefully make the world a slightly better place for people who aren’t so fortunate.

i think the future will become more and more polarised… the have and have-nots, the workers and and deliberate benefit culture, the healthy and the not. mleh! what a happy thought 😥

There seems to be a dominant view that going to uni is about getting a job afterwards. It is much, much more than that.

Ummm… I think that’s my point just worded a different way.

(not the spelling content btw )
i think you will find, if you check, I made a more coherent point by using more incoherent language 😉

Phil that was a touching comment on your missus and one of the first that did not mention boobies or cats { PLEASE PHIL NOOOOOOOOOO] …is everything ok do you need to talk to someone
Fair points from you all [ including HtS] TBH
EDIT:

There seems to be a dominant view that going to uni is about getting a job afterwards. It is much, much more than that.

if you want to lend me 40 k fo rthe three years ages between 18 and 21 I am opretty sur ei could have learnt a lot to.

We all know it is but the issue is why get saddled with that level of debt for the “experience”.
You are correct it is shame we talk about it in those terms
Unfortunately IMHO uni should be ameritocracy and for the very brightest in society. Once we open it up as an egalitarian meausre it looses its woth, I would imagine if you take out vocational jobs [ architect, dr, vet etc] you will find very little evidence of a premium for degrees these days.

CaptJohn – under the current system of fees, sadly, it is exactly about that.

Infact, if individuals weren’t to pay for their education… IMO it should still be about the total benefit to society gained from people studying.

sorry junky, i try not to take things too seriously, hence the boobies and cats 🙂

for the record i am incredibly proud of mrsconsequence, she’s now at the point of identifying her own triumphs and being proud of herself… which just makes me even prouder. i feel bad using the word ‘proud’ as it suggests her success is somehow down to me, its not. She’s one of the most driven, honest and beautiful people in my life.

Aside from from assuming a degree is about a job afterwards, what narks me is the CBI’s mantra that graduates aren’t skilled or experienced enough when they finished. Well, you know what, maybe contribute towards degrees, or encourage your members to make placements available. We’ve got 50 third years who have opted to do a module which includes working in a job. Public sector organisations are jumping at the chance to get 10 days free labour of some quite bright students. Businesses, however, run a mile. It is little wonder graduates have little work experience when businesses aren’t prepared to give them any.

maybe contribute towards degrees

Pretty sure that some top Accountancy firms are doing this now.
The armed forces have done it for years, right?

Is there not an argument to say that Graduate Schemes offered in the private (and lesser extent Public) sector are doing the sorting of quality role that University used to do itself 20-30 years ago?

10 or so years ago I studied the economic worth of a degree… If you go to study Geography with the current fee structure… good luck.

There seems to be a dominant view that going to uni is about getting a job afterwards. It is much, much more than that.

As someone who has interviewed to employ graduates but has struggled because they are not up to scratch I couldn’t care less if they have had an “experience”. If they can’t do the physics they shouldn’t be awarded an honours degree in Engineering. Positions now filled by apprentices who have been trained up internally and to HNC level on day release BTW.

Harry_the_Spider – Member
As someone who has interviewed to employ graduates but has struggled because they are not up to scratch I couldn’t care less if they have had an “experience”. If they can’t do the physics they shouldn’t be awarded an honours degree in Engineering. Positions now filled be apprentices who have been trained up internally and to HNC level on day release BTW.

I’m not suggesting going to uni should be about the student experience, it should be about the learning you do while there (not how often you go and get trashed).

…10 or so years ago I studied the economic worth of a degree… If you go to study Geography with the current fee structure… good luck…

why the need for luck?

i assume you mean that their job prospects are a little gloomy (which may or may not be the case), but if they end up working in a call centre on £16k, their repayments will be zero.

they’ll have had 3 years of education and character development, and it won’t cost them a penny.

It’ll have cost them £48k in lost earnings at the very least 😉

Assuming they’re not completely stupid they might rise to the position of team leader and start earning just over the national average… then have to start paying back.

I haven’t really looked at the new fee structure… it’s irrelevant to me. All I know is it’s not as good a deal as when I went.

Wonder how this will play out with more students going for ‘premium’ degrees like science and engineering in order to get better paid jobs. Students already cost far more to teach than the government is willing to pay, so this could either make these courses the preserve of the privately educated (entrance exams for STEM are now common at the top unis) or we will see an explosion of cash cow foreign students subsidising the EU/home students.

If you are prepared to look there are other options that don’t just involve learning “a trade”. As someone mentioned above I’m sure the big 4 (accountants) are now taking on A level student. You train while doing the job and become certified (?) in a fe years and then can go on to become chartered later. I’m certain EandY are taking on A level student.

We have around 10 students in the lab. They work 4 days and study one and get a BSC of 5 or 6 years. They get paid a livable wage (it’s not great when you start but comparable to what I was living off as a student). Fees are paid and you get a guaranteed job at the end.

I know of other companies that do similar.

Many of the well known graduate employers take on graduates whos degree bares no resemblence to the job they are being asked to do. So in some cases they are looking at skipping the “getting a degree just to prove you can” stage and taking people on earlier and training them up.

One big disadvantage of lower numbers studying is that research and technology is something we do really well at. If we have less people going to uni this will have knock on effects.

Some people go to uni to learn

FunkyDunc – Member

however it may well leave a skills gap. Would you want to do a 7 year architecture degree which may well leave you with £100,000+ debt, which will take you years to pay off and leave you in real terms earning a lot less than piers who have managed to get in before fees came in…
Posted 7 hours ago # Report-Post

7 years training to use a pencil,and some paper, when all it means is your drawn line or squiggle has to be interperated by trained craftsmen who actually build what you have drawn, and probably have to re draw your drawings and check all the sizes frequently.

A relevant piece in the Telegraph (of all places)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8848889/Time-is-running-out-for-our-hourglass-economy.html

Schools in Germany and UK have shocking behavioural problems.
Universities teach rebellion and left wing political attitudes.

Got to love the Telegraph comments section, you can almost hear the Harrumphing 🙂

uni should be ameritocracy and for the very brightest in society

well thats being **** up royally already