What is the general consensus on a decent VFM tubeless wheelset for general trail riding. And what's the gen on the difference between genuine tubeless and eg: Bonty's 'tubeless ready'
Have done ghetto tubeless but got fed up with the faff of rimstrips and latex every time I needed to change a wheel so thinking about at getting a dedicated setup with a decent pair of tubeless tyres.
First of all, I didn't rate the Bonty system at all, mine worked but getting tyres off could be a nightmate- I found the tyre beads were able to get stuck down the side of the rim strip. It's really very similiar to the Stans strips, better but still a bodge IMO.
I've got Stans Flows and Mavic 819s, the Flows are tubeless ready not UST but it's a very different kettle of fish from the bontys- all you need to add is the yellow sticky tape and once fitted the wheel acts exactly like a UST rim. There's a minor issue that the tape can get damaged when changing tyres, though that seems rare- otherwise, using the "proper" UST 819s is just exactly the same as the Stans rims.
The Stans rims are enormously better than Mavic's tubeless offerings IMO... Mavic don't really seem to be trying to compete, the 819's heavier than the Flow despite being a closer match performance and strength wise to the Arch. There's nothing wrong with my 819s though, they're still decent kit.
Oh, I don't use UST tyres... Mostly my tyres are just standard, never had one that wouldn't work fine as tubeless. Some of them are tubeless ready- Specialized 2bliss and Bonty TLR- and they're a good compromise.
Seems to me that the heavy, tougher UST tyres are sort of the equivalent of a normal dualply, they have their place but they're probably not the first option for most riding.
If you don't use UST tyres do you then need sealant to make them work? I realise sealant is probably a good idea anyway to seal any little thorn punctures but if for example I had a setup with tubeless ready tyres and sealant for every occasion, if I ever wanted to switch them off for a pair of summer fast rolling ones, would they go up without?
Was looking at JRA and Stan's rims on XT hubs seem like a decent offering.
I use the UST set-up of 819s and a UST tyre, for about 9 years now - bought a bike in 2002 that came with a UST wheelset. It is very, very reliable and performance is good.
I'm a bit set in my ways with the 819s - I'm sort of biased against Stans from the early days when they were a byword for compressors and general tubeless fail. Northwind's post, along with others on here and a few lads I ride with, make me think that their current stuff must be very good. Probably the one to look at first tbh.
TBH the only time I've tried to use them without sealant was a total failure- UST tyre on the 819s, they went on easily but lost air pretty rapidly, couldn't do a full ride without reinflating. But that might not be typical. I'd say it's worth using sealant anyway but if you really want to do it without, then UST tyres are probably a neccesity. Just be aware that many UST tyres will be heavier than a TLR or standard tyre + tubeless.
For balance I think the Bonty system is great but needs to be fitted properly which is a bit fiddly. If it doesn't work it's because the rim strip isn't fitted properly and the strip hasn't been hooked under the rim hook. This is the only way that the tyre can get between the rim and strip.
I also use a NoFlats setup which was very easy to set up. I've done ghetto too but that needs careful innertube choice to avoid problems with seating at the valve.
100ml sealant per wheel btw
Shimano 775's set seem cheap and good value with Maxxis LUST perfect in 18 months of use. Very good fit. Never needed a compressor track pump and dry. I blow em up to fit, then let them down and add stans no flat latex, two good spoons and a bit for luck. Change every 6 months - perfect.
Take short cuts, pay the price.
Stans Flows, yellow tape with Schwalbe NN very easy and straight forward although made easier using a compressor.
Stan Flows with Panaracer Rampage was a disaster. They would keep slipping off the rims even when it was just locked away in the garage. Stans sealent is a sod to clean off the walls and the other garage contents 
Mavic 819 USTs, expensive but industrial!
No punctures in 3 years
Enough said
Kev
Fulcrums could be worth a punt. I've not had any trouble with mine at all. Strong, straight n reliable since day one.
I would rate the 775's mine work really well, just pisses me off that all the ust tyres are really expensive. The mavics are fine once inflated but i have to use a gas canister for a really quick blast of air, track pump just wont do it....but maybe thats just the brand of tyres i use?
I've used Mavic 819s and 823s and I've really been impressed with them. I've only used maxxis tyres (ust and non ust) and found that on the whole it works pretty easily, and is definitely worth the extra dosh. The larger dh ust tyres are generally lighter than their 2.5 2 ply counterparts so that's a bonus too.
I've found the rims to be some of the best I've ever used in terms of strength to weight. The 823s are genuinely bombproof. The 819s, I found to be stiff and strong, but I needed regular trueing on the rear, and have put some big flat spots on it. I snapped my front rim in an "incident". I think the riding I was doing on it was a bit too much tbh.
I was wary of stans rims due to their light weight. I couldn't find a rider who was doing anything more than light xc stuff on them. If I was building another set of xc/trail wheels I'd choose 819s.
jimjam - MemberI was wary of stans rims due to their light weight. I couldn't find a rider who was doing anything more than light xc stuff on them.
<stock response>
Here is a pair of Flows on their way to a win at Leogang 
she has some kind of mechanical left knee..
Running stans crests here, one of them tubeless and no probs so far, seems fantastic and once I'm happy with the back tyre I'll tubeless it too.
Im running ZTR Olympic rims with nobby nic / racing ralph, with stans sealant. no problems so far!
Have a look at American Classic wheels. We're mesmerised by them.
Got a good deal from Superstar, their hubs with Crest rims. Used yellow tape and sealant with Conti Speedkings and not had any troubles. Find your idea of not using sealant a bit strange, what will you do if you puncture? If you plan on putting a tube in then you might as well stay with a clincher and tube setup as most of the tubeless benefits have been lost. The sealant is used to seal holes more than seal the tyre to the rim.
Northwind
<stock response>
Here is a pair of Flows on their way to a win at Leogang
Have you got a photo of them going in the bin after that? If I was getting them for free I'd have no concerns about reliability.
Sam Hill and Steve Peat seem to use DT Swiss EX1750's for their race runs, I've got a friend who's 9 stone dripping wet who could get through a set in a day.
Like I said, I'll stick with mavic until I know someone who's given Stans some real abuse on my local trails.
OK, fair dos, though she says she gets through "A few sets a year" The ones on her bike at the IXS looked pretty well used before they started, they're definately not just getting skipped every race.
I trust my Flows more than my 819s- they've had far harder use but don't look it. The 819s are on my rigid XC bike and still look like they've had a hard life, whereas the Flows have done a spot of DH and enduro racing, uplifts, a week in france, and assorted general use around the UK over the last year and are still fresh and tidy. You'll find no shortage of other happy users. I've no major criticism of the 819s either though, other than that they're not as impressive as the Flows. Oh, and they bloody rattle.
Though, I don't know where your local trails are
I have found that Maxxis LUST tyres fir really well. No issues. TBH they work so well I only use Maxxis now.
I've got Mavic 823s and Stan's Flows. TBH if you use UST tyres they are both great. The Flows can take new normal tyres but getting a used set to inflate is a bitch. I weigh 106kg and I'm clumsy but not a downhiller or anything but I suppose my rims get more of a testing than most. If I was buying again right now it would be the Flows again, purely because they are lighter and haven't let me down at all.
sorry a bit off topic but I have just got some Flow, Yellow rim tape and Valves...Im having a bit of a mare getting them up. I am using maxxis tyres with plenty of soapy water. I am at my wits end. I left them last night with tubes in to 40psi so I can have another go today. What i didnt do was pat and slap the tyre in the area near the valve - as per stans video - so I will try that.
Try using a compressor not the petrol station type. A small frienly tyre fitter would probably help you out. Failing that CO2 gas blast might do the trick but the compressor is more reliable.
I pat and slap the Maxxis tyres and they go on first time with track pump. This really helps to seat them before you pump. My rims are UST so no tape I think thats what may cause some issues.
I prefer slap and tickle myself. 
SBrock,
I just fitted my first tubeless setup a few days ago, using the Ghetto method but expect the trackpump action is the same.
Squeeze the tyre and valve between thumb and index finger (not really tight), then one or 2 long strokes of the track pump and you'll get that initial bite against the rim, the rest is easy. Oh, I used soapy water as well around the rim of the tyre.
I bought some Bonty XC wheels second hand off here about four years ago. They've been brilliant, are still going strong, and are still my best wheels. Far better than the Shimano XTR that I had for one season and hated.
I usually run Hutchinson tyres with sealant. No problems changing tyres with a track pump once I got my technique sorted.
I never use soapy water when I change tyres.
+1 for Bonty TLR. No issues with Hi Rollers and some Stans
Used Stan's Flows and Mavic 823s. Very positive experiences of both. 823s bombproof for me. I've put a couple of minor dings in Flows with a a fair bit of abuse in the Peaks still sealed fine though.
Friends who ride a bit heavier than me have dinged Flows pretty bad, but they are all still using them.
If I was building another set of wheels it would be Flows again as they are a lot lighter than 823s. If purely DH and I was tough on wheels probably go 823s.
I use Flows with a very thin innertube based rimstrip (can't get the ghetto out of my system!). I can mount just about any tyre with a track pump. Two cups of sealant for a 2.5 tyre.
I started off years ago with latex carpet adhesive and yes, it was a major faff but not having ANY punctures for 8 years is worth it!
Nowadays, on group rides I take a book to read while I'm waiting for the 'tubers' to fix their holey mess!
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