Firstly, I apologise for the lack of terminology in what I’m about to write. I’ve been riding the same bike (Yeti 575) for about a year and have never really messed much with the rear shock. Thought it was all good as I had no other frame of reference.

Completed my first bike build last week, a Commencal Meta 6. It’s only taken me the best part of 9 months to get all the bits together…

The Commencal was meant to be my back up bike for when the Yeti is off the road or for when I fancy a change or doing something a bit burlier. And then I road it. Straight out of the box it feels amazing. The suspension is super plush and it just eats everything up. It feels so smooth. Went out on the Yeti again (RP23 has recently been pushed) and it feels nowhere near as good. Yeti feels pretty smooth when it’s on the flat but when it’s going downhill it feels like it’s rattling around underneath me. Maybe like it’s bottoming out too. I actually thought I had a flat at one point as it felt like I could feel every rock and there wasn’t any plushness there at all.

I’ve played around with the rebound and I’ve tried reducing the pressure a bit in the shock. I’m 18st with all my kit on and pre having it pushed was running it at 270psi. LBS advised I try dropping it down to 250 but it still felt the same. Commencal also running at 270. Running both sets of tyres at 35psi.

Does the Commencal feel so different:

a) because it’s new
b) because it’s a different bike any was designed for bigger stuff
c) because it’s set up differently – if so how can I make the Yeti feel more plush?

Thanks in advance.

All contributions much appreciated!

a)a wee bit
b)more so
c)why bother? just sell it.

Like you im fairly heavy, so I need quite a high pressure in the shock. I dont run much rebound on mine, perhaps 4 or 5 clicks from fully off.

will slower rebound make it feel less "ratly" tho?

But it'll also pack down thus compress the shock further into its travel, making it less supple.

when it's going downhill it feels like it's rattling around underneath me

That sounds to me like too much damping in some form – either too much compression (too much propedal possibly) or too much rebound so that the shock is packing down on successive hits, eventually bottoming out (as you mentioned).

I'd try finding a bumpy section of trail, taking off as much compression damping as you can (no propedal) and then as little rebound as you can without it becoming a pogostick. The work from there with the compression/propedal until it rides how you want.

Sounds like too much rebound damping to me. Not that I know anything mind. I was once told, many moons ago, to just ride off a reasonable sized kerb, sat down and aim for one and a half 'bobs' as a base setting and adjust from there. Less rebound for a more pitching you over the bars smacking you up the bum feeling and more for a packing down, soggy feeling. So, more 'bobs' off the kerb: too little rebound damping, less 'bob' too much rebound damping.

Hope that makes sense, and I've no idea if it's correct.

It's not a million miles off damion 🙂

why buy a bike such as a yeti and not bother to find out how it works.

all the gear, no idea?

Sounds like he's trying to find out now…

Besides, how many people really understand suspension?

Are you setting up the shock using air pressure charts? I go with the 1/3 sag rule of thumb and gentle dampening on the rebound. Not sure about compression as I only have a float R but going down hill I thought that you should run it with minimal dampening if any at all.

alpin not everybody is as technically minded as you.

Do you think all the F1 drivers know exactly how their cars work? Should they be driving metros?

Going by the pressure your running, I would start at full rebound and work back. I am 14st, also running a Pushed RP23 on a Hustler. I tend to run about 2-3 clicks from full rebound now. It used to be less, but now the shock is nice and stiction free after 12 months or so of use.

Besides, how many people really understand suspension?

And the same people send their shocks off to be "Pushed" or fettled at Mojo thinking it will return as a miracle shock, when they have no understanding of how to set up a standard factory shock in the 1st place. That always amuses me…

Well yeah, actually I tend to agree there – if you don't know how it works, make sure you ask someone who (really) does – your LBS if necessary.

Not strictly relevant, but I rather like the advice in the Magura manual for their air forks.

Put a ziptie or O ring round your fork leg so you can see how much travel you've used up in a ride. Set the air pressure (preload or sag as they call it) so you use the full travel once or twice around the trail.

That sounds like good sense to me – pump it up if you're off somewhere big, let some out if you're riding somewhere flat.

alpin and twohats in "unhelpful idiots" shocker!!! So you know it all but are above sharing?

OP FWIW I got a "pushed" shock recently (sh) – I posted on here about the feel, it feels like the piston is loose as there's 1mm or so of "play" when the shock rebounds – feels rattly. I was advised that this is normal (as per tft advice). I don't think I like it!

Do you feel it while riding, al? (just interested)

Hard to compare different bikes but for what it's worth. I'm about 16st with all my kit on, have a RP23 on a Blur LT set at 170psi. Propedal at "2", rebound about 4 clicks from full rebound. 90% of the time I use propedal, only for long descents do I switch it off. Feels very smooth.

I got to 170 doing the 25-30% Sag test with a zip-tie around the stantion. Works for me……270 sounds like an awful lot. 90psi in a Talas 140 FWIW.

Yeti's are good bikes, stick with it.

I made the mistake of trying to tame the rear end of my Meta 5 by increasing the damping up to 2 clicks away from full. The bike used to ping off rocks etc and I took it as being uncontrolled bouncing.
How wrong can you be?
After reading something on here about "bracketing" to optimise settings I could not believe the improvement when I backed the damping right off and upped the pressure a bit.
What was happening of course was packing down, not neccessaraly to fully down but into the area where the spring rate did not allow the sus to cope with the next hit.
I really had a downer on the Meta and had gone back to a Hard tail but I love it now.

alpin and twohats in "unhelpful idiots" shocker!!! So you know it all but are above sharing?

Hardly "unhelpful idiot" just passing comment, being a public forum and all that.
Truth hurts sometimes.

Sorry if the truth hurts twohats, not intended.

clubber – Member
Do you feel it while riding, al? (just interested)

Yes – even more so once you've looked in to it of course! Feels like a loose bushing etc. I think it's going on ebay…

Pushed shock in "not all its cracked up to be" shocker, imagine that!

I know – given how most folk rave about them.

Have you checked your sag? Sounds to me like you might have too much air pressure in the shock, which means it's not reacting enough to bumps and acting more like a hardtail.

I would:
– Turn any pro-pedal stuff off.
– Get a feel for how much sag you have first of all & set it correctly (it's different for different bikes, but try something like 25% of travel). Interesting to see if this is still at 270psi?
– Then whack the rebound damping in the middle of it's min/max – so if you can twiddle it 10 turns from fast to slow, then turn it 5 times from either end.
– Ride it.
– If it springs back too fast over bumps and try to push you off the bike, then slow the rebound down a couple of clicks. If it feels wallowy or packs down, then speed it up a couple of clicks. Repeat until you find a happy medium.
– Write down settings somewhere.

Here's a idea.

It's mostly because in fact the 575 isn't actually that good.

The reason your Commencal feels better? It's a better bike…

LOL, well that's possible but the symptoms he's describing sound more like a setup problem than anything inherent in the design.

My experience with an 06 was good. It's hard to interpret your words, but "rattling around on me" doesn't sound like a shock set up issue to me.

Does the shock have any play when you pull on it sideways? ie, is it mounted correctly, or is there play in other pivots/linkages?

Does the shock have any play when you cycle it without any air pressure? ie Cynic-Als comments about the pushed system loose tolerance.

I would recommend you set up the shock as per the manuals. With that frame and your size, you will need the propedal setting (try 3) enabled on climbs or when you're stood hammering, but should not need it when descending or looking for a responsive suspension. I think your quoted air pressure is about right.

Use the o-ring on the shock to see if you really are bottoming out on the downs when you feel the rattle/bottom out.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

At 270psi the sag was about 25%, at 250psi it probably dropped to 33%.

All the gear and no idea Alpin? I have a couple of nice bikes yes and when I bought the Yeti it might have been true, I'd not ridden a bike for 17 years but I was in a hell of a rut and it was the money from my divorce. I knew if I dropped it all on a bike, I'd ride the thing come rain or shine and it might help get me back on track, which is exactly what has happenned.

I'll be honest, I don't fully understand the compression and rebound but I'm trying to learn. Having a 2nd bike seems to be a great way to do it as I can now compare them.

I got the shock pushed because a) it was due a service after 14 months of riding and I do ride quite a lot and b) lots of people on here seemed to think it was worth it. Being 6ft 6' and 18st I thought it might be worth it as they can set it up for your weight. Not quite worked out that way but hey…

Rockitman, why don't you send the shock back to TFTuned and see if they can alter it for you?

Was thinking that myself. Well, I was thinking it might be at least worth putting a call in to them. Will do that in the morning 🙂

What did you tell them when you sent it in to be pushed, as shouldn't they have set it up for your riding style/preferences in the 1st place?

The LBS sent it in as I was working away. I gave them all the info though so it should be OK. Rider weight, riding style etc. Might be worth checking they've set it for 18st and not 8!

Question1: are you getting full travel once or twice per ride? If not, may more sag needed. If it goes near full travel much of the time, maybe less. From what you said, I doubt its a sag problem.

Question2: if increasing sag makes no discernible difference, perhaps the compression is too damped. This makes it slow to react to bumps and feel like a HT. Remove propedal, or maybe it even needs to have a lighter compression tuning (TFT can do this).

Question3: was it better before PUSHing?

Hi Buzz,

In response:

1. I was getting full sag once or twice per ride, until I reduced it down to 250psi, then was happenning more often.

2. All of my test riding was conducted with the propedal off. Perhaps should have made that clear earlier!

3. Yes.

cynic-al – your comment about it feeling rattly – yes that's exactly how it feels – this is normal? That is exactly what I was trying to say, you throw it down a rocky descent and it feels like it's rattling around underneath you, like the suspension is really weak or the tyres are going flat? Is it supposed to come back over time?

rockitman – what did you actually specify you wanted from the PUSH tuning?
If TF did it and you don't like it they'll re-tune it for free within a certain time period.

your description here of what's happening is really pretty vague and pretty poorly worded, if your PUSH form was too then I wouldn't be surprised if it's not tuned how you'd like it to be.

if I were you I'd think hard about what you really want and give them a call and have a long chat

Update: Spoke with James at TFT this morning. He was tremendously helpful.

Basically, he double checked and the shock has been set up correctly for me. I need to be running it at 270 psi, however, because I run it so high I will only ever have a maximum of 3 clicks of rebound adjustment, starting from maximum. Beyond that it's open and it will just stay open. This explains why changing the setting was having very little effect.

The Yeti will never feel like the Commencal because the way the linkage works on the Commencal is much kinder to the shock that the Yeti. The Yeti basically beats the crap out of it, the Commencal doesn't. Commencal probably better bike for heavier rider…

He suggested I have a play round again at 270psi and see how I go. If I still aren't happy, send it back and they'll set it up differently. You can't say fairer than that can you!

By the way the two shocks aren't the same length and stroke are they? 'Cos you could just swap them over and see ithat made any difference. Might not, might make it worse, but you could find out.

result. good chaps at TFT.

I'm a big lad myself, 6ft 5 and 16 and a bit stone, and find setting shocks up well helps a lot I've also found that a coil shock works a lot (and I mean a lot) better than air shocks at the sort of 250PSI pressures I need to run (DHX air vs DHX coil, so i consider the comparison valid)

The air cans just aren't as supple as the coil, which is so much better over smaller stuff and just seems more compliant. The air cans are more progressige too, and tend to be more difficult to bottom out with the same sag settings. I like the low weight of the air can, but prefer the way the coil rides. My idea solution would be a coil with a Ti spring…

And to give you a brief overview of suspension, it can be broken down to two parts, spring rate and damping

Spring rate is how much the shock or spring compresses for a certain force. More air pressure = stiffer spring (as does a stiffer spring obviously) which means it takes more force to compress the spring the same distance. Heavier people need more pressure/a stiffer spring to stop the shock blowing through its available travel and hitting its end stop (bottoming out).

You get your spring rate by sitting on the bike in your riding gear (carefully and slowly so it doesn't bounce) and set the sag to about 25% of the available travel. Tie a thin zip tie loosely around the shaft or use the rubber ring on it already. Measure the length of the shaft that slides into the air can, divide by 4 and aim to have the zippie/ring slide this far down the shaft when you sit on the bike. Has it gone too far? More air pressure/stronger spring. Too little movement? Let some out/weaker spring.

You want to use all your travel once or twice a ride, 25% is a good place to start, but experiment to see what feels good for you.

Still with me?

Damping. This is what stops the bike just bouncing up and down after taking a hit. This takes two basic forms, compression and rebound.

Compression assists the spring in a way, slowing the shock down as it compresses. High compression may help stop the shock bottoming out, at the risk of the shock not wanting to compress much at all (it might feel crap over small repeated bumps as the wheel wont want to move out of the way as easily). Pro pedal is a form of compression damping, it stops the shock compressing as much under a slow compression rate (ie a slow squish of pedalling bob vs the fast sharp hit of striking a rock). Low compression damping makes the shock more compliant and so it will absorb bumps well, hoiwever you might get more pedal bob.

Rebound damping stops the compressed shock uncompressing at the same speed, which would make the shock just bounce up and down. Too much compression and the shock doesn't extend enough after a hit, so when the next hit arrives, the shock cant deal with it and bottoms out. Too little rebound damping and you are back to a bouncy back end.

The advice above of riding of a kerb and about 1 1/2 cycles of bounce is a very good starting spot. The shock should compress, extend just beyond the sag point and settle back to the sag point. Again, it's personal preference, but its a good place to start.

Hope this helps a bit, sorry about the essay!